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Shrinking the Brain Bag....

Thanks everyone for the feedback on the 505. I think it will be too small for my aging eyes in bumpy weather. The 707 appears to use the same 6" 8 gray shade 140dpi display, so my take is that for the moment the iRex ($599 on Amazon) is currently the best compromise for my personal needs to clearly view the plates.
 
sneedrv-6 said:
If you buy the Irex what software do you put on it? Are you talking about getting the eflybook?
Click to expand...

No, EFlyBook wants to charge you more for the device and then charge you again for subscriptions.

I believe the device comes pre-installed with an OS including a .PDF viewer, but there is also talk that you can load Linux and a better reader. I will probably research a bit more before I buy.
 
So the Kindle 2 was announced earlier this week. Now with 16-level shades of gray. I think someone should order one, load some plates and give us a PIREP. Do we have any volunteers?

Seriously, I wonder is the screen is just too small to be of much use. And is 1.4GB of user available memory adequate? Hmmmmmm.
 
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RV7Factory said:
So the Kindle 2 was announced earlier this week. Now with 16-level shades of gray. I think someone should order one, load some plates and give us a PIREP. Do we have any volunteers?

Seriously, I wonder is the screen is just too small to be of much use. And is 1.4GB of user available memory adequate? Hmmmmmm.
Click to expand...

Better take a deep breath - from the Kindle 2 User's Guide:

Note: PDF conversion is currently an experimental feature on Kindle. Due to PDF's fixed layout
format, some complex PDF files might not format correctly on your Kindle.
Click to expand...

In other words, it doesn't have a native PDF viewer but rather attempts to convert it to something else which may or may not hose up the depictions.

And, in a bit of irony, even though the Kindle can connect to the internet you might not be able to read the user's guide, which is in .PDF format....

;)
 
RV7Factory said:
I am reading pg 83 right now... well that just stinks!

Without full native PDF support I don't think I'd touch the thing, not even with someone else's wallet. :D
Click to expand...

Hehe - I'm not that particular. I'll be glad to test one with YOUR money - PM me if interested...

;)
 
I have no need for approach plates, but when my Kindle 2 gets here I'm also happy to test and report back.
 
The future is here... almost

Not sure if this up-coming product has been mentioned. Labelled as a kindle-killing-ereader. It's e-ink but on a flexible membrane... moving from bleeding-edge technology to actual working prototypes. I'm awaiting for when the first production units will be rolling off the assembly line :) It's slated to be available in early 2010.

See the following article in the link below... a good read if you love technology:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/feb09/7929

Here's a direct link to the company, Plastic Logic:

http://www.plasticlogic.com/product.html

Here's a link to a video demonstration of the Plastic Reader prototype (CES 2009):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQHDxOxVhs

"Plastic Logic is using our proprietary technology leadership in plastic electronics to create a range of products enabling information access, organization, and consumption. Our foray into the market will begin in the second half of 2009 with pilots, and trials with key partners. We expect to accelerate the momentum of our sales in 2010.​


Differentiated by a stunning form factor (the size of 8.5 x 11-inch paper), the Plastic Logic reader features a big readable display. Yet it's thinner than a pad of paper, lighter than many business periodicals, and offers a high-quality reading experience - better than alternatives of paper or other electronic readers on the market today. ​


The Plastic Logic reader supports a full range of business document formats, such as Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint, and Adobe PDFs, as well as newspapers, periodicals and books. It has an easy gesture-based user interface and powerful software tools that will help business users to organize and manage their information. Users can connect to their information either wired or wirelessly and store thousands of documents on the device. The reader incorporates E Ink technology for great readability and features low power consumption and long battery life."​
 
Nice looking rig. My guess is it will initially be expensive.

I've ordered a last-generation color tablet computer (used HP COMPAQ TC1100) with a 10" screen for under $300, and will try the PDF downloads to see how that works in the cockpit.

I may also try Anywhere Map. For under $30 I can get a bluetooth GPS receiver, and Anywhere Map offers a lifetime subscription (I hate recurring subscription models). It has enough additional features that it might be worth the extra bucks since I would never need to pay again.
 
So I have a kindle 2 now, so I can do a test for ya'll. Can someone point me at a PDF to use as a test case?

btw: **** this thing is cool :)
 
I see alot of the directions most people are going are 'reader', but there's another new technolgy that might be appropriate..it's netbooks.

These are scaled down laptops, usually 10 inch screens (though ASUS will still have a few 8.4 inch screens available for a short time & Dell has an 8.9 inch screen), long battery life, full color, either using XP or Linux (depending upon the model}.

I'm in a Fry's deprived area (sad after living close to the up scale Fry's in Plano) but prices on these units are generally between $250 and $350 though some can be priced double that.

Side Bar: My wife used to make me put on a shock collar before entering Fry's - I got to like that... :)

I don't believe any of them have touch screens but they all have keyboards, color screens, etc...you could even watch DVD's...

Bob
 
You should not use any laptop in your RV for any period of time unless it has solid state hard drives. Some of the new tiny notebooks have solid state hard drives but those units are in the $1000 range from what I've seen.
 
Jamie said:
You should not use any laptop in your RV for any period of time unless it has solid state hard drives. Some of the new tiny notebooks have solid state hard drives but those units are in the $1000 range from what I've seen.
Click to expand...

Actually many cheap netbooks have solid state drives, the Dell Mini 9 is a Linux based netbook (in some configs) that is $200 and has a solid state drive.

That said, a netbook doesn't strike me as ideal from a sunlight/readability perspective. My Kindle sure is pretty ;-)

Kevin
 
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use a tablet

I have been using a tablet computer with a standard hard drive in my airplanes for the last 4-5 years without any issues, yet. I believe the "experts" recommend not flying above 10000 feet with a standard hard drive. I started out with the Fijutsu P600 and now use Sansung Q1. While I do have the all IFR approaches on the tablet, I print out the expected route and use the tablet as a backup for when the weather play tricks on us.
 
I can hardly contain myself

Still not sure of the legality of totally replacing paper plates with a Kindle but if it works I'll do it.

Then again i fly in IMC with a 1 month old GPS database..Thats cus my home airport has an ILS...and that makes it legal..:)

Frank
 
Initial kindle experiment results

Hi ya'll,

So I wanted to report back: I tried using amazon's PDF converter on the plates Brad provided. Alas - no joy. The text came across but no graphics.

Over the weekend I'll try one of the free 3rd party converter services and post an update, but the 'just drop it in' attempt didn't work out.
 
We're rooting for ya Kev..

Anything to get away from the dastardly subscription services..:)

Frank
 
Tablet navigation

Greetings all. I finally feel compelled to post to a VAF forum, mainly because I'm very interested in the general theme you fellows are discussing; getting rid of paper charts and compiling all necessary nav materials in one handy and accessible place. The idea of a tablet sized display, like the Kindle or Sony readers which can really only handle a non-moving approach plate, seems to fall a bit short of what's possible, even if the NACO charts are free, they're not geo-referenced.

Having done some little bit of research myself, I'm seeing a really strong potential for a reasonable hardware/software solution that would provide moving-map, geo-referenced sectionals, low and high-alt charts, and all the approach plates in CONUS, for around $400 a year, plus the cost of the hardware. The hardware is up to you, but it appears there are solutions which would not be difficult to build, and install, with a first rate, daylight-readable, touch screen (10.4" diagonal), and with a 12V CPU, for around $1K, + or - a couple of hundred. The best software solution looks, to me, like FlightPrep (www.flightprep.com). If there's a better bang for the buck out there, I'd sure be happy to know about it.

I've been in touch with a gent who has put something like that together for himself, and feels it really accomplishes his goals. If there's any interest among the VAF in building from what he's already managed to put together, perhaps he'd be willing to pass some of his thoughts on to this group.

From my point of view, a complete package that provides geo-ref sectionals, that can be changed to low alt charts (or approach plates) by simply touching the screen, while showing my airplane position on the chart, in color, beats all sorts of shades of gray.

Regards to all. It's great reading all the posts.

Chip
 
Chip said:
Greetings all. I finally feel compelled to post to a VAF forum, mainly because I'm very interested in the general theme you fellows are discussing; getting rid of paper charts and compiling all necessary nav materials in one handy and accessible place. The idea of a tablet sized display, like the Kindle or Sony readers which can really only handle a non-moving approach plate, seems to fall a bit short of what's possible, even if the NACO charts are free, they're not geo-referenced.

Having done some little bit of research myself, I'm seeing a really strong potential for a reasonable hardware/software solution that would provide moving-map, geo-referenced sectionals, low and high-alt charts, and all the approach plates in CONUS, for around $400 a year, plus the cost of the hardware. The hardware is up to you, but it appears there are solutions which would not be difficult to build, and install, with a first rate, daylight-readable, touch screen (10.4" diagonal), and with a 12V CPU, for around $1K, + or - a couple of hundred. The best software solution looks, to me, like FlightPrep (www.flightprep.com). If there's a better bang for the buck out there, I'd sure be happy to know about it.

I've been in touch with a gent who has put something like that together for himself, and feels it really accomplishes his goals. If there's any interest among the VAF in building from what he's already managed to put together, perhaps he'd be willing to pass some of his thoughts on to this group.

From my point of view, a complete package that provides geo-ref sectionals, that can be changed to low alt charts (or approach plates) by simply touching the screen, while showing my airplane position on the chart, in color, beats all sorts of shades of gray.

Regards to all. It's great reading all the posts.

Chip
Click to expand...

Hi Chip,

There is already a product which pretty much does this called Anywhere Map (and Anywhere Charts). But, we're all for competition - please dive in if you have a better idea!
 
So I've seen the Sony 505 reader in action, and it seems useful as is (once you get all plates on there!).

Just wondering if anyone has tried updating the display more often - say for instance trying to update a moving dot once a second on a static background, how well does that display ?

It would be interesting to try to geo-reference approach plates for situational awareness (yes, I know they are not geo-referenced from NACO, but since there are products that do show geo-referenced plates I guess it is possible to at least show approximately where you are ?).

But if the current state of the E-Ink displays are not even capable of 1 second refresh rates it kinda of falls apart right there...
 
E-ink won't make it for geo-referenced moving map overlay. Too slow.

Color Tablets will be the long-term answer. I just bought a used Compaq TC1100 (10" screen) for under $300. Biggest concern is that it won't be readable in sunlight, but I will be posting back on that when I get a chance to fly in sunlight with it.
 
breister said:
E-ink won't make it for geo-referenced moving map overlay. Too slow.

Color Tablets will be the long-term answer. I just bought a used Compaq TC1100 (10" screen) for under $300. Biggest concern is that it won't be readable in sunlight, but I will be posting back on that when I get a chance to fly in sunlight with it.
Click to expand...

Bummer. I like the crisp and very readable displays of E-Ink.. Maybe their speed will improve over time ?
Very few laptops/tablets have good enough displays to be viewable in sun-light, but if you are able to position it right maybe it will work out ? (or try a glare shield ?)

Definitely report back how well the TC1100 works out for you!
 
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> Bummer. I like the crisp and very readable displays of E-Ink.. Maybe their speed will
> improve over time ?

Not just a matter of speed. The e-Ink displays consume power whenever they are being
updated. A geo-referenced plate with moving airplane is gonna consume a LOT MORE
power than displaying a simple static page.
 
breister said:
Hi Chip,

There is already a product which pretty much does this called Anywhere Map (and Anywhere Charts). But, we're all for competition - please dive in if you have a better idea!
Click to expand...

Could be I'm suggesting a solution to the wrong problem. If all you're looking for is approach plates in a digital format, I guess any of the choices mentioned would do the job. Of course, that's bearing in mind that they are not geo-referenced. And, although not terribly expensive, it may be that the cost of those readers might go a bit of a way in providing a more versatile hardware solution.

As to FlightPrep software...unless you want geo-referenced sectionals, low altitude charts, and approach plates, it's probably not the boat you'd want to be rowing. If you do a good bit of cross-country, sometimes filed IFR, and you don't like paper charts, FlightPrep looks to me to be pretty good. Not quite like having a G1000, but it has an awfully lot of good points, at least from my perspective, and no, I'm not selling for them, but I have talked with them enough to understand the impressive capabilities of their product.

There are all sorts of laptops and tablet PCs that are available to handle this sort of software, but they all seem to be a bit of a compromise, in one way or another. Too costly, too bulky, not bright enough, requiring a stylus, etc. The system I saw (only photos) seemed a good solution, for not only approach plates, but charts as well.

Anyhow, might not have a better solution, just other ideas. I personally like the idea of laying a 10" screen on the empty right seat, or between them if you have an F/O, allowing me to leave paper charts/plates at home.

I do have digital images of what one fellow put together, but I'm not sure how to post them to the forum. Email if you'd like me to forward them to you.

Cheers,

Chip
 
New option soon?

I came across the Touch Book today. It's too soon to tell, but with its detachable sceen and $300-400 price tag it might be worth a look when it is released in May or June of this year.

Specs...
9.4" x 7" x 1.4" for 2 lbs (with keyboard)
ARM Texas Instruments OMAP3 chip
1024x600 8.9'' screen
Storage: 8GB micro SD card
Wifi 802.11b/g/n and Bluetooth
3-dimensional accelerometer
Speakers, micro and headphone
6 USB 2.0 (3 internal, 2 external, 1 mini)
10h to 15 hours of battery life
 
Nice! We'll have to wait for reports to see if it is bright enough. Second issue would be software if you want more than just PDF support.
 
Kindle 2

I see that the Kindle 2 is now available..Is that the one that will not allow the graphical pdf files to r=transfer..of might there be hope for this new Kindle?

Oh BTW..i think there should ba an award for the starter of the longest running thread...I think Paul will win..:)

Frank
 
frankh said:
I see that the Kindle 2 is now available..Is that the one that will not allow the graphical pdf files to r=transfer..of might there be hope for this new Kindle?

Frank
Click to expand...

I tried a Kindle 2 with the amazon converter - it did an unacceptably bad job on the test plates someone sent me. I tried a couple of other converters as well - so unless you wanna be on the real cutting edge a Kindle isn't good for PDF plates.
 
> I came across the Touch Book today. It's too soon to tell ...

Based on the docs, the screen has magnets so that it can be stuck a refrigerator. I
prefer that my compass be the ONLY thing in my cockpit that has a magnet.

-doug
 
rainsux said:
I have a newly cropped sample available
your Sony users:
Cropped: http://www.NACOmatic.com/sample.pdf
Uncropped: http://www.NACOmatic.com/approach/ct.pdf
I am eagerly awaiting your feedback.
Click to expand...
I''m using a Samsung Q1, not a Sony, and I really like the cropped version. I'm glad you did keep the date on the right edge.
Since I'm using the Q1, I find the directory structure approach that Kahuna's scripts produce extremely convenient and easy to use, compared to the single PDF file with bookmarks. However, I suspect the directory structure won't work with the Sony.
Now if I could get one of you to do the cropped plates in a directory structure... :rolleyes:
 
Samsung Q1

DGlaeser said:
I''m using a Samsung Q1, not a Sony, and I really like the cropped version. I'm glad you did keep the date on the right edge.
Since I'm using the Q1, I find the directory structure approach that Kahuna's scripts produce extremely convenient and easy to use, compared to the single PDF file with bookmarks. However, I suspect the directory structure won't work with the Sony.
Now if I could get one of you to do the cropped plates in a directory structure... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

How's the sunlight readability of your Q1? Are you using the Anywhere Map software or other?
 
Q1 here also

I use a Q1 also in my RV7a. It works okay, but you do need to shade the screen to see good. I use Flightsoft's Vista moving map program with their approach plate update service. Have sectionals and low altitude charts on Q1 as well.
 
New Samsung?

Anyone at SNF see Contol Vision's new Samsung-Anywhere Map SST offering?

Allegedly better readability......

Any first hand reports????
 
KINDLE

Anyone take a look at the Amazon Kindle? New version (new as in just announced today). Larger, only 3.3 Gb, but faster page swaps, etc. AND it has native Adobe support!
 
Q1

cawmd82 said:
How's the sunlight readability of your Q1? Are you using the Anywhere Map software or other?
Click to expand...
In fully bright mode, the sunlight readability is OK if you shade the screen a bit. I don't use it for in-flight NAV - I have a GRT Sport for that. It's mostly my backup IFR chart source, and a regular PC when I'm near an internet source.
 
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