Van's Air Force
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Sarah's quote
- Thread starter n5lp
- Start date
BikePilot
Well Known Member
I've often thought that the landing manners of a tailwheel aircraft might if the movement of the tailwheel were damped. Something like a motorcycle steering damper (extremely light and can be very adjustable - some even electronically controllable) would do the trick I think. There are a few types - some rotory based, some use a rod that slides though a cylinder. The OEM dampers on newer Hondas are controlled by the motorcycle's onboard computer. IIRC they increase damping as voltage is increased. It would not be difficult to build a bit of logic (or manual controller) such that it would have a significant amount of damping at higher speeds and much less at lower speeds. Also, more advanced mechanical dampers such as the Scotts are very sensitive to shaft-speed (and the degree of speed sensitivity can be adjusted). All unnecessary I suppose as folks seem to land tailwheel aircraft just fine, but fun to think about.
Rotory Types:
Scotts/Ohlins (~$400, extremely adjustable)
http://www.scottsperformance.com/damperinfo.php
WER (~ $300)
http://www.werproducts.net/WER-Steering-Damper.html
OEM Honda (~$30 on ebay, probably very expensive new from Honda).
http://www.4strokes.com/articles/honda/hesd/
Rod-type dampers (there are probably dozens of makers, range from $100-$400 or so - probably the lightest weight).
http://www.hyperprousa.com/catalog.php?cat=Dampers
Jamie
Well Known Member
I did tailwheel training in a C-140, got the endorsement and felt confident I could fly an RV-7 taildragger with no problems. I simply decided to build mine as a -7A because...well...just because that's what I wanted to build. The first RV ride I ever had was in a 6A so perhaps that has something to do with it.
If you fly a tailwheel RV it doesn't make you any more of a man (or woman) or any more of an aviator...it means you simply checked a different box on Van's order form. That's it. Get over it already.
This is one of the problems I seriously see with aviation. We all stand around scratching our heads and wondering why all aviators around us are getting white-headed (no offense to the white-headed ones among us
) then we all criticize other aviators if they decide to like a different type of airplane or they have different interests. You will never hear me criticize someone that builds a -9/9A over a -7/7A or an RV-12 or whatever. If folks enjoy flying their C-150s or old Ercoupes I am all for it. If people want to plop down half a million on a new Cirrus...more power to them. I agree completely with the statements that we should all learn until there's nothing else to learn. That's one reason why I love aviation so much. It's such a broad subject with varying subcultures and topics that you never will know it all.
n5lp
fugio ergo sum
Oh, I have been here the whole time and have read some thoughtful comments.Boy Larry, I didn't take you for the kind of guy that lobs a pin-less grenade into a closet full of pilots then locks the door behind you!
I think most of would agree that Sarah's comments, taken literally, are a bit over the top. Also, most of us would agree that one needn't have flown every airplane and have every rating to be a competent pilot.
Many feel that more experiences with more different types of airplanes are a good thing. I feel that way.
My thoughts:
I agree it is a good thing to get as many different experiences in as many different types of flying machines, as possible.
I don't agree that flying hours are a good measure of competence, or even of experience. This is based on direct observation mostly but I do remember the comments of one of the most famous glider pilots of all time after listening to a speech of another glider pilot who bragged about his 30,000 (or something) hours. There was a remark about 25,000 of those hours being on autopilot, while sitting in the airliner seat.
Some people feel that those that fly tailwheel airplanes look down on those that don't. I have no doubt that this attitude exists, but I have rarely, if ever, seen it for myself and wonder if that is just because I live in an unpopulated area? I do fly a tailwheel airplane, because that is what I like to do and I can't match the satisfaction I find in that, with other types. That doesn't mean I wouldn't jump at the chance to fly an F-16 and it doesn't mean that I think F-16 pilots are some kind of wimps.
I have never flown a floatplane or an airplane on skis or a jet or a Cub with 36" tires or a Beech Staggerwing or a Space Shuttle or a Quickie but I can't imagine that the experience of flying any of those would do anything but add to my capabilities as a pilot nor would I denigrate anyone who thinks differently or anyone that has no interest in flying any of those craft.
I think I do understand Sarah's feelings of wow, I have been missing something, this is fun and satisfying and it teaches me new and valuable things!
Good Read
That was a good read. Just now seeing it. ( Snow bound today).
I like tail wheel RVs because they are easer to build and maintain.
I have loved the old WW2 airplanes. After getting my private way back when. I used to land tail low,,,,, dreaming of when I could get a tail wheel airplane.
That was a good read. Just now seeing it. ( Snow bound today).
I like tail wheel RVs because they are easer to build and maintain.
I have loved the old WW2 airplanes. After getting my private way back when. I used to land tail low,,,,, dreaming of when I could get a tail wheel airplane.
From someone that has tailwheel time AND several hundred traps on USS Boat, they're entirely different animals.
Tailwheel flying is just like every other airplane, except in the few seconds of take off or landing. With the CG behind the main mounts, it takes much more finesse and control "feel" to properly handle the airplane. Especially when the wind is blowing. It's much less forgiving than a trike. Once you're in the air or down to taxi speed, it's all back to normal. Tailwheel flying IS more challenging than a trike though. Plus they just look "right." Imagine a DC-3 with trike setup <shudder>.
Landing on the boat (during the day) is 15-18 seconds of some of the most concentrated flying you can ever do. Taking a 140 knot jet that weighs 40K #'s, and flying a glide slope that is 21 feet from top to bottom at 3/4 of a mile, down to 2 feet either too full high or full low (WAVE OFF!!!), in a variety of wind conditions on a 400' runway that's trying to get away from you, rolling, bobbing, etc. It also is entirely about feel, feeling the jets energy state and pitch attitude, power corrections (of fractions of an inch, which are several per second) and constant line up (90' wide). When you're having an "on" day, it's almost zen like. You feel every burble and twitch of the airplane. When you're having an "off" day it's like leaning over the edge of a cliff trying not to fall over the front. The difference between the two can be mere feet.
At night, everything is the same but you're scared out of your mind the entire time. I've never landed a tailwheel airplane and consistently been so happy to survive yet again.
Very similar skill sets, two entirely different worlds. One is much more forgiving.
Edit: where are the REAL pilots? Straight deck carrier aviators, flying tailwheel aircraft?!?! Corsairs, Dauntlesses, Bearcats!!!
Tailwheel flying is just like every other airplane, except in the few seconds of take off or landing. With the CG behind the main mounts, it takes much more finesse and control "feel" to properly handle the airplane. Especially when the wind is blowing. It's much less forgiving than a trike. Once you're in the air or down to taxi speed, it's all back to normal. Tailwheel flying IS more challenging than a trike though. Plus they just look "right." Imagine a DC-3 with trike setup <shudder>.
Landing on the boat (during the day) is 15-18 seconds of some of the most concentrated flying you can ever do. Taking a 140 knot jet that weighs 40K #'s, and flying a glide slope that is 21 feet from top to bottom at 3/4 of a mile, down to 2 feet either too full high or full low (WAVE OFF!!!), in a variety of wind conditions on a 400' runway that's trying to get away from you, rolling, bobbing, etc. It also is entirely about feel, feeling the jets energy state and pitch attitude, power corrections (of fractions of an inch, which are several per second) and constant line up (90' wide). When you're having an "on" day, it's almost zen like. You feel every burble and twitch of the airplane. When you're having an "off" day it's like leaning over the edge of a cliff trying not to fall over the front. The difference between the two can be mere feet.
At night, everything is the same but you're scared out of your mind the entire time. I've never landed a tailwheel airplane and consistently been so happy to survive yet again.
Very similar skill sets, two entirely different worlds. One is much more forgiving.
Edit: where are the REAL pilots? Straight deck carrier aviators, flying tailwheel aircraft?!?! Corsairs, Dauntlesses, Bearcats!!!
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blueflyer
Well Known Member
My .02 cents on it
Prior to getting my TW endorsement, my landings were not always directly on the centerline. I have now noticed (since I started flying TWs) that when I jump in that same tri-gear airplane I flew prior to having a TW endorsement that my landings are always dead center centerline and coordinated.
I dont think that is a coincidence for me. TW endorsement improved my skills.
Prior to getting my TW endorsement, my landings were not always directly on the centerline. I have now noticed (since I started flying TWs) that when I jump in that same tri-gear airplane I flew prior to having a TW endorsement that my landings are always dead center centerline and coordinated.
I dont think that is a coincidence for me. TW endorsement improved my skills.
Landing on centerline is about holding yourself to a standard. You probably just didn't think much about it before. You're telling me you couldn't land a trike on centerline before hand?
blueflyer
Well Known Member
nah, it was just prior to getting a TW endorsement, I think I always landed at airports with oscillating centerlines! But seriously, for me, the TW endorsement improved my skills. There is no doubt about it. The skill the TW endorsement may have remedied was my laziness on landings( not correcting for small changes, etc, etc). The TW endorsement improved that, and as a result, I notice much smaller changes in sight pictures, coordination, and as a result, I have much better landings. It improved my landing skill set for sure.
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flytoboat
Well Known Member
I got my PP training through the Aero Club at Scott AFB on a 150x7000 foot runway. Flying a C152, I didn't worry too much about the centerline although my instructor was always gently coaxing me toward the center. One day I guess he finally gave up and on roll out said: "don't worry about the centerline - thats only for professional pilots". From then on you would think there was a rail down the centerline that I was locked on to!
flyboy1963
Well Known Member
runways & psychology
Same for me; in that I trained on the usual PA-28's etc. at a 'big airport'. My instructor, appalled that I couldn't keep it on the middle 100' of the runway, took me north to a 50' x 2500' field. Funny how I could track the centreline when 'needed'. Now I even taxi on the centreline, unless it's rough, just to 'keep myself to a standard' as someone so eloquently put it.
Same for me; in that I trained on the usual PA-28's etc. at a 'big airport'. My instructor, appalled that I couldn't keep it on the middle 100' of the runway, took me north to a 50' x 2500' field. Funny how I could track the centreline when 'needed'. Now I even taxi on the centreline, unless it's rough, just to 'keep myself to a standard' as someone so eloquently put it.
When I was getting my CFI back in the day, learning to fly from the right seat and different hands was giving me fits. Finally my instructor did the exact same thing. Went over to Orlando Country airport, which is really just an old stretch of two land road. Funny how much easier it got.
Chris Hill
Well Known Member
Nothing like fuel to the fire...
I think shes right to a degree. For example, I would let a military pilot with no previous training in a 172 solo my own 172. BUT I would not let a military pilot with no previous training solo my stearman. Price differences aside...
Its a totally different skill set
The reason the military uses nose wheels is because the students crashed too many taildraggers...
I think shes right to a degree. For example, I would let a military pilot with no previous training in a 172 solo my own 172. BUT I would not let a military pilot with no previous training solo my stearman. Price differences aside...
Its a totally different skill set
The reason the military uses nose wheels is because the students crashed too many taildraggers...
Stir that pot..
Sid Lambert
Well Known Member
Does this not simply come down to a "the more you know" scenario?
I feel that the more different type aircraft you fly the better your stick & rudder skills will be. Let's face it, 100 hours of RV tail dragger time doesn't qualify you to jump in a Pitts and and go fly. Not all nose draggers are created equal, not all tail draggers are created equal and not all aircraft are created equal.
I feel that the more different type aircraft you fly the better your stick & rudder skills will be. Let's face it, 100 hours of RV tail dragger time doesn't qualify you to jump in a Pitts and and go fly. Not all nose draggers are created equal, not all tail draggers are created equal and not all aircraft are created equal.
Military, commercial, civilian... must be too hard for everyone.
Evolution is why we don't use them. Not to many jet powered tail draggers. Try a V1 cut in a DC-3 or Beech 18, then tell me how hard that Stearman is.
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