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Sarah's quote

n5lp

n5lp

fugio ergo sum
From Sport Aviation, December 2009:

"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown a tailwheel airplane before, you do not know how to fly. Every single subtle movement of your hand or foot while flying the Stearman makes such a difference, and you start to become aware of the simple things -- Am I sitting straight back? Is my head forward? Am I resting my elbow and leg too much to one side because we are leaning to the other side?"

Sarah Wilson
(who had 3,000 hours in airliners, Lears and King Airs before her first Stearman ride)

And my comment (Larry) is that you can't fly many interesting airplanes, like the Stearman, unless you have mastered the straightforward and very satisfying skill of flying the tailwheel airplane.
 
Sorry, Larry, she can swear to whatever she wants, and you can agree, but that doesn't necessarily make it true...

I could argue that you can learn those same small movements and feelings saddling up behind a tanker, or flying an NVG approach, or a CAT II ILS, or catching a wire on a carrier...does that mean that anyone who has not doesn't REALLY know how to fly? Or those that have are not REALLY skilled because it was in a tricycle gear aircraft? Give me a break.

Before anyone calls me defensive, don't bother. I'm more than comfortable with my skills. This tailwheel vs. nose wheel thing always seems to be perpetuated by the TW guys...wonder why?

If you want to discuss what a great, classic airplane the Stearman is, I'm all for it. But it's not BECAUSE it's a tailwheel aircraft...that is just one of it's many virtues.


Joe
 
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I think thou does protest too much

jferraro16 said:
This tailwheel vs. nose wheel thing always seems to be perpetuated by the TW guys...wonder why?
Click to expand...

Pretty obvious. Unless you have flown (okay, consistently taken off and landed) both, you can't make a comparison.

I guess I'm a "TW guy" now, but it wasn't a direction that I wanted to go. I just couldn't find a well-built "A" model in my price range so I reluctantly bought a TW. Best aviation decision I ever made. I'm with Sarah (that other "TW guy", I guess). Learning to take-off and land with a TW dramatically improved my skills. More than any other experience.

I think its great to prefer trikes. But, that preference shouldn't deceive the fact the tailwheel experience is a terrific enhancement to a pilot's skill.
 
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Quote

jferraro16 said:
Sorry, Larry, she can swear to whatever she wants, and you can agree, but that doesn't necessarily make it true...

I could argue that you can learn those same small movements and feelings saddling up behind a tanker, or flying an NVG approach, or a CAT II ILS, or catching a wire on a carrier...does that mean that anyone who has not doesn't REALLY know how to fly? Or those that have are not REALLY skilled because it was in a tricycle gear aircraft? Give me a break.

Before anyone calls me defensive, don't bother. I'm more than comfortable with my skills. This tailwheel vs. nose wheel thing always seems to be perpetuated by the TW guys...wonder why?

If you want to discuss what a great, classic airplane the Stearman is, I'm all for it. But it's not BECAUSE it's a tailwheel aircraft...that is just one of it's many virtues.


Joe
Click to expand...

Joe:

Don't be so defensive. Learning tailwheel techinques WILL DEFINATELY make you a better pilot just as learning the technique of being "trapped" on a carrier, using NVG or Air to Air Refueling. I believe there would be fewer "A" model tipovers if tailwheel techniques were tought. Unless you have done it, (Tail Wheel) you cannot dismiss it as useless. YMMV. All added skills benifit those who fly.
 
Guys--

Like I said, not defensive at all, and was afraid it would come across that way. I just find this argument/discussion tired/old/irrelevant. Much like primers, sliders and battery locations. Guys are going to do what they are going to do. And, I'll repeat it, it's never brought up by a guy with an -A model.

So, if I consistently flew both, then came here and said -A models make you a better pilot because of the challenges of the nose leg design, is that instantly a truth? Does it mean anything?

Broad-brushed comments about how TW time will make you a better pilot---no ifs, ands, or buts, and regardless of your experience--are not based in fact, IMO. Case in point: our Navy and Air Force, as well as those of other countries, would still be training in them.

I can honestly say that when I picked up my tailwheel endorsement, the only thing I "learned" was that building an -A model was right for me. That and the fact that the CFI was extremely proud of his, IMO, marginal skills simply because he was signed-off to teach in a TW aircraft.

That's all I'm saying. Get your TW endorsement, enjoy your TW time, become a better pilot...just realize the placement of the third wheel is not a panacea or coronation.

Joe
 
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I'm with Joe...

I would expect she would notice a difference between a Steerman and the various passenger aircraft she has flown but it has very little to do with the fact that it has a tail wheel. Having flown a Steerman, I can say it was enjoyable, but given the choice between an RV and a Steerman, I'd take the RV almost any day of the week. Actually the closest thing that I've flown that resembles a Steerman is a YAK-52. They're both built like a tank, have similar control forces, and are draggy as all get out with the nose pointed towards the ground. Both are a bit of a PITA to taxi, but the YAK was a lot easier to land.

The bottom line is that flying a tail dragger will hone your skills, but if someone who's flown airliners her whole life stands up and says if you haven't done such and such, then you don't know how to fly, I'd shake my head and walk away.

Paige
 
jferraro16 said:
...comments about how TW time will make you a better pilot---no ifs, ands, or buts, and regardless of your experience--are not based in fact, IMO.
Click to expand...

Personally, I would not put it near as strongly as Sarah did, but I think it is hard to argue that adding a piloting skill would do anything but make one a better pilot. That is not to say that one can not be a fine pilot without that specific skill, but I don't think they will be as complete.

...Point in case: our Navy and Air Force, as well as those of other countries, would still be training in them.
Click to expand...

Yes, if it was the kind of skill that mattered in that type of flying. I think one could be a perfectly great fighter pilot without understanding the subtleties of micro-meterology or the exact amount of rudder correction needed on a grass runway to counteract the little burble coming over the trees before one nestles straight and gently and onto the grass

I can honestly say that when I picked up my tailwheel endorsement, the only thing I "learned" was that building an -A model was right for me. ..

That's all I'm saying. Get your TW endorsement, enjoy your TW time, become a better pilot...just realize the placement of the third wheel is not a panacea or coronation.

Joe
Click to expand...

I never meant this discussion to have anything to do with the RV one chooses and I'm happy to hear that you built the one that was right for you. I'm also glad to hear you did get that tailwheel endorsement.
 
I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never rode a unicycle before, you do not know how to ride. Every single subtle movement of your hand or foot while riding the unicycle makes such a difference, and you start to become aware of the simple things -- Am I sitting straight back? Is my head forward? Am I resting my elbow and leg too much to one side because I am leaning to the other side?

Hey this might even solve the folding bike issue, at least for the tail wheel guys.;)
 
May I stand and raise my hand?

I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that the weather in and around the Houston area today was absolutely spectacular... and that anyone in the area who had access to a flying machine of any kind and wasn't flying it today missed a rare opportunity. That's all I have to say about that.

Have a great day!
 
A big part of why I fly is the challenge. I got my license in a 150, and have a couple hundred hours in the breed. I've got over 1500 in my 170, but I still wouldn't say I can fly it as well as I can a 150. It's that bit of extra challenge that makes it interesting. Three of my greatest feelings of accomplishment: soloing a Stearman, nailing a cross country with only nav gear being a compass and a map, and raising the hood at 200-1/2 with both needles centered since glideslope intercept. (I haven't yet finished building an airplane, but I'm sure it would rate right up there...)

BTW here's what a "conventional" RV-10 might look like.:p

jjwry1.jpg
 
"Mike's" Quote

"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown an RV before, you do not know how to fly. Every single subtle movement of your hand or foot while flying the RV makes such a difference, and you start to become aware of the simple things -- Am I sitting straight back? Is my head forward? Am I resting my elbow and leg too much to one side because we are leaning to the other side? Am I upside down?"
 
In flight,.....

.....you can't tell where the third wheel is anyway. It only really matters on landing.

If you really want to hone your in-flight skills, go fly a glider/sailplane. You'll quickly discover enormous amounts of adverse yaw and how to arrest it. That, and precise airspeed control,

Best,
 
Adverse Yaw more than TW

I learned the most from a TW airplane (7AC Champ) but only partly because of the TW. Pierre brought up adverse yaw, and that is what I remember most and learned so much from. To fly a Champ well you had to learn to coordinate controls, "fly the wing" instead of the engine, and learn to fly un-coordinated when required. By that I mean without flaps forward slips were a normal part of landing, especially since I always kept it a little high in case of engine failure. I was working on my Commercial license at the time and practiced the maneuvers in the Champ. Lazy 8's etc were so much harder in the Champ that I had to learn to be smoother and more coordinated on the controls and had to listen to the plane and feel the plane.

Landing and taking off in a TW plane keeps my attitude right. I set the bar higher and am more carefully to be lined up right, with no drift away from center line. Landings in a strong cross wind use the same technique as a NW plane but once the NW is on the ground you're pretty much home free. On a TW airplane getting the TW down does not end the process, it only makes things more sensitive to wind gusts or over control.

I am not going to say TW is better than NW. It depends on what's important to you. For me, my greatest teacher was the 7AC but only partly because it was a TW plane. The larger reason was the adverse yaw and necessity to fly it using all the controls.
 
I never met a discussion I didn't like!

"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown a sailplane before, you do not know how to fly. Every single subtle movement of your hand or foot while flying the sailplane makes such a difference, and you start to become aware of the simple things -- Am I sitting straight back? Sitting straight? I can't even move it is so cramped in here!

I don't claim to be a good TW pilot, but i are one. It is just another skill. I do agree with Pierre, sailplanes can teach you a bunch. Why do we need multiple wheels to land anyway? Someday soon I hope to be instrument rated. These are all steps toward the goal--flying with all the skills we are capable of learning. Some recent Cub time was a learning experience, and not only during landing. I would probably learn something if I stepped back into a 150.

Bob
 
I learned many things about flying after I'd had my certificate for many years... by piloting R/C models. I believe I am a more knowledgeable full scale aircraft pilot because of it. Such things as aft c.g., flying behind the power curve and high drag airframes become readily apparent. The results of improperly flown aerobatics were experienced safely and aerodynamic modifications could be easily made, tested and the results seen. I could go on and on. I agree with the other posters who take the position that we should try to exerience as much of aviation as we can, then decide what we truly are comfortable with and enjoy.

Currently flying a tail dragger but enjoying them all.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
 
I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown a Stearman before, you do not know how to fly. Every single subtle movement of your hand or foot while flying the Stearman makes such a difference, and you start to become aware of the simple things -- Am I sitting straight back? Sitting straight? I can't even move it is so cramped in here!

While not a Pitts the Stearman is a joy to fly, not so much on landing and take offs. Notice how narrow and tall the gear on a Stearman are. That thing is a foot full on the ground but so nice in the air. It was designed to get young men ready to fly very complex gun platforms so they could go off to war to make the future we all enjoy today. Even a T6 is easier to handle on the ground than a Stearman.

I need to head to the basement and work on my damaged airplane, damage that may not have happened if the little wheel was up front.
 
Wow...

Strong medicine.
Aviation, to most of us, is a lifelong commitment to training, education and safety. to me, it seems like there really is no "'better or worse". I just try to get as much exposure to all of the different types of aircraft and situations as possible. Seems like every new step I take yields a lot of benefit in terms of my flying skills. Even so, I have much much more to learn.
That being said,
How about Pierre and that monster turbine powered Air Tractor of his! Blastin' down a field a few inches off the ground with wires on either end.
Now that's gotta put you in touch.....
BTW..how the heck do you train for that??

I'm just sayin...
Chris
 
videobobk said:
"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown a sailplane before, you do not know how to fly. Every single subtle movement of your hand or foot while flying the sailplane makes such a difference, and you start to become aware of the simple things -- Am I sitting straight back? Sitting straight? I can't even move it is so cramped in here!
Click to expand...
When I was learning to fly sailplanes, I flew my Globe Swift to and from the Glider-Port. If you have never flown a Swift.....
And that's all I have to say about that!
 
TW & NW and things that go bump in the night

One Sunday afternoon at the airport I heard the sound of a small continental
coming to life and watched as a L4 cub taxied by. Now most days this was
not a big deal but today 15 gusting to 20 knots and a 750 pound cub.....
I rode out as close as I could with my hand held to watch the L4 do touch and goes with a student. They had about a 60 or 70 degree cross wind and with the wind speeds at that time it was fun to watch the cub fly to the ground.

The instructor was Sarah and the student is unknown. The L4 belongs to Sarah. She gives tail wheel instruction and does what appears to be a good job. Maybe she made a strong statement but I think she felt strongly about that statement. If you ever have the chance to meet her you will understand that she is an aviator and most aviators seem to speak their mind. She will mix it up with the best of them ( I have seen it with my own eyes) and speaks aviation very well.

When I saw the article the first time I though....."Boy I am glad she didn't say that on the RV board"........ Oh well :)

I will say that my 800 pound Aeronca 7AC Champ taught me more than any plane I have flown. As soon as my 7AC project is done I will learn some more.

Sal
Lakeland FL
RV8
 
videobobk said:
I never met a discussion I didn't like!

"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown a sailplane before, you do not know how to fly...
Click to expand...
And they give you many opportunities to experience landing gear configurations beyond the simple tail-dragger or nose-dragger.

Lets see, some that I have flown have been:

Four wheels (one main gear, one tiny tailwheel, two wingtip wheels and a nose skid)

One wheel (forward of the CG)

Three wheels in a line

Two wheels in a line

and the last one I had was

Five wheels (nose, main, tail and each wingtip)

and some have no wheels at all.

No endorsement required for any of these different configurations!
 
SAILPLANES!!!!

Now there is something I will certainly agree with 110%. What an education in energy management! Wish that RV-11 would get done! :)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!



Joe
 
Nose vs. Tail has little to no impact on the experience of flight once airborne.

Learning to use your rudder across the whole regime of flight is appropriate for anyone in any airplane. Doing so is "flying," failure to do so is just "riding around."

IMHO...
 
You don't know how to fly until you have flown an RV

Capflyer said:
"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown an RV before, you do not know how to fly. Every single subtle movement of your hand or foot while flying the RV makes such a difference, and you start to become aware of the simple things -- Am I sitting straight back? Is my head forward? Am I resting my elbow and leg too much to one side because we are leaning to the other side? Am I upside down?"
Click to expand...

This is the first time I have told this complete story online, with first hand quotes from the deceased because I sold the RV-6A which ultimently led to a fellow pilot's death. It WAS NOT the fault of the RV-6A or any fault with my having sold the airplane. It was totally pilot error but this thrend about flying brings home the extreme differences of flying an RV vs. most other airplanes and the need to be constantly alert with your flying skills.

When I sold N65RV I gave the buyer some flight time in the 6A before he took it home. The buyer was a Former Navy pilot with 2500 hours split between fixed and rotary wing aircraft. The finance company had insisted that the airplane have a pre-purchase inspection by an FBO shop who replaced an oil impeller due to an AD which required removal of the engine driven fuel pump. During the initial flight after pre-purchase inspection with the buyer on board and after a couple practice T&G's on downwind mid field the engine driven fuel pump quite and although I flipped the electric fuel pump switch back on it did not start immediatly and I declared an emergancy because I was abeam of the cross runway and knew I could easly make the field. Having made an almost perfect landing and getting the airplane back to the FBO for a replacement fuel pump we continued the flying leasons in N65RV for about another hour.

Less than a month later the Buyer crashed N65RV. He called me the day after the crash and told me the following:

"I needed gas and the grass strip didn't have fuel so I decided to fly over to another airport and get gas. I took my 10 year old son with me. Shortly after takeoff the engine started to quit and I reached over and turned the electric fuel pump switch back on. In doing so I turned N65RV upside down and by the time I got it right back up I didn't have time to pick out a landing spot, hit real hard into scrub trees and sustained a compression fracture to my back. My son was not hurt."

To understand why this high time pilot turned N65RV upside down during an emergancy while turning the electric fuel pump switch back on you should close your eyes, imigine yourself in the left seat of a two place RV with your left hand on the stick, turning your head to the right, reaching all the way across the instrument panel to the far right hand lower side with your right hand to flip on the switch. Don't think about flying the airplane just let your body flow all with one movement and you will see that your left hand follows your body to the right as you lean across to flip on the switch. That is why in an emergancy you first fly the airplane and while continuing to fly the airplane you start emergancy procedures. I didn't build N65RV and wouldn't have put the electric fuel pump switch all the way across the panel but if you don't understand what happens while moving the control stick a very small amount in an RV and you don't always fly an RV while holding on to the stick you can really get yourself upside down real fast.

No, the crash and totaling of N65RV didn't kill the pilot but he didn't learn very much because the next RV-6A he bought crashed leaving the same grass strip with engine trouble which did result in his death.

Flying an RV, regardless of whether it is a taildragger or not, requires the pilot to always be aware that even little movements of his body while holding the control stick can cause significant changes to the attitude of the airplane. That is the trade off of going from spam cans that fly like big SUV's drive compared to an RV that flys like a driving a race car at the track.
 
I think what happens to those of us who get excited about flying tailwheel, so much so, that we declare "I didn't know how to fly until I flew a tailwheel", is all about the pure love of the exploration of flight. My first solo in a 150, I thought it was tough and said "that was incredible, it really worked me over". 20 flight hours later, the mystique went away. A 1000 hours later, I jumped into a tailwheel, and again I declared "that was incredible, it really worked me over". I look forward to getting my sailplane rating, and probably a seaplane as well. I am sure I will make the same old declarations of the thrill of flight in a new way. I know that the tailwheel made me a better pilot. I learned something about yaw, and rotation around the vertical axis, that I had not learned in a nosewheel. You may think this knowledge does not make a better pilot, I can accept that. I just don't agree. A good pilot always continues to learn, a smart pilot accepts that he or she has a lot to learn.

Here's a quote "your last experience in flight, should always be your greatest experience in flight".
 
jferraro16 said:
Case in point: our Navy and Air Force, as well as those of other countries, would still be training in them.
Click to expand...
An unfortunate example to choose... What they train in is dictated by the ultimate goal, which is to be flying a plane that also has a nosewheel... Be it a tanker or an F-22. The fact is that none of those could be practically built as tailwheel airplanes. Once planes got fast enough that swept wings made sense, the main gear had to move back so it still had a place to go when retracted. And then it made more sense to put the third wheel up front. Factor in that a nosewheel is inherently stable on takeoff/landing, and it's really a no-brainer as to what the military would move ahead with.

With all that said, once you leave the ground in your RV, you won't know or care where the third wheel is until you're back down and flaring to land. Either way, you'll land, taxi in, and park for the night, as people admire your aircraft.
 
boom3 said:
I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never rode a unicycle before, you do not know how to ride.
...
Hey this might even solve the folding bike issue, at least for the tail wheel guys.;)
Click to expand...
Don't knock it 'til you've tried it... One of the many reasons I took the time to learn to ride a unicycle this past year, is that unicycles fit into much smaller places than full bicycles. I look forward to trying to fit mine into a RV... It fits in the Cessna 150 that I fly now quite well. Makes for some interesting double-takes on the ramp, too. :)
 
n5lp said:
Sarah Wilson
(who had 3,000 hours in airliners, Lears and King Airs before her first Stearman ride)
Click to expand...

I don't get it. Why take issue with a comment made by a lady with only 3000 hours of experience? When she reaches 30,000 hours and has flown a few hundred types I will happily give her a few minutes of my time.
 
ronschreck said:
I don't get it. Why take issue with a comment made by a lady with only 3000 hours of experience? When she reaches 30,000 hours and has flown a few hundred types I will happily give her a few minutes of my time.
Click to expand...
For that matter, why would I accept any building advice from anyone on this site who has only built one RV? Only those who have 5-6 airplanes under their belt should offer advice or opinions from now on. :)
 
sprucemoose said:
For that matter, why would I accept any building advice from anyone on this site who has only built one RV? Only those who have 5-6 airplanes under their belt should offer advice or opinions from now on. :)
Click to expand...

I would be more likely to accept advice from a builder of 5-6 airplanes over that given by a builder of a single airplane. Likewise, I would pay more attention to the opinion of a 30,000-hour pilot with experience in dozens of types over that of Sarah Wilson. I will defend her right to express her opinion as strongly as I am defending my right to weigh her opinion in light of her limited experience. In short, don't shut her out, but don't confuse her opinion with fact.
 
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. For many people on this forum (and pilots in general) 3000+ is a lot of hours, and her resume represents a lot of experience. In RV terms, that would be about "built two RVs and starting on #3." It's all relative.

I'm curious- what is it about her statement that you take issue with? I know you fly a taildragger, so it's clearly not knee-jerk defensiveness. And I know something of your background, and that you know whereof you speak. So what is it that you disagree with?
 
sprucemoose said:
I'm curious- what is it about her statement that you take issue with? I know you fly a taildragger, so it's clearly not knee-jerk defensiveness. And I know something of your background, and that you know whereof you speak. So what is it that you disagree with?
Click to expand...

This:

"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown a tailwheel airplane before, you do not know how to fly."

You are correct; it is not knee-jerk defensiveness because I do have plenty of tailwheel time. I might agree with her if she had said "if you have never flown a tailwheel airplane before you may not appreciate the skill required to make a textbook landing in a taildragger." I know a lot of fine pilots with zero tailwheel time and I take issue with Sarah's pronouncement on their behalf. When I had 3000 hours I thought I knew it all, too.

Having said that, I still say she is entitled to her opinion. As are we all.
 
pierre smith said:
If you really want to hone your in-flight skills, go fly a glider/sailplane. You'll quickly discover enormous amounts of adverse yaw and how to arrest it. That, and precise airspeed control,
Best,
Click to expand...


This is just what I was thinking! I'm only a student pilot, but most of my training was in gliders. Just the dance that was required to keep it straight and the wings off the ground on a winch-launch or the same on landing on our bumpy grass field was a truly involved experience and one I could only just manage on my own after over a dozen attempts.

My very first time flying at all was in a 172 as a teen. I managed to take off, fly around and land without assistance other than instructor-managed throttle on landing - it was exciting and surprisingly easy.

Just last summer I got to fly an aero commander 100 which was great fun but I was almost disappointing when I landed very smoothly and without any significant use of my feet after not having flown at all for several years (to be fair, the enormous runway we were on definitely helped). Its a very easy plane to drive, but takes away a bit of the connected, visceral sense of flight that was present in the glider. I assume that landing a tailwheel RV is probably similar in the visceral sense to the monowheel glider. So far the only tailwheel time I have is in FSX (truely sad I know - I'll fix that when I'm out of school, until then I'll satisfy myself with learning as much as I can on the ground).

I used to work with a guy who I imagine would counter with something like "you haven't really flown 'till you've had an engine flame-out at Mach 3" or "you haven't really flown until you've landed an overloaded transporter on snow" - all a matter of perspective I suppose - for me, I'm thrilled to get off the ground in any manner possible!
 
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BikePilot said:
"you haven't really flown 'till you've had an engine flame-out at Mach 3"
Click to expand...

"Well, I was shaving with a Mach III, and if you shave with a Mach III, there's no time to think, if you think, you're dead."

Iceman, The Later Years.

But seriously, to me her claim just seems a bit snooty. While I've got a bit of tailwheel time, I'm not gonna tell someone without that they flat out don't know how to fly, that's just silly. Ron's last post (#33) sums it up perfectly.
 
Why does tailwheel make you a better pilot?

OK. I'm a low time pilot. Less than 500 hours since 1975, All recreational for me and friends and family. VFR only, and now building the mildest RV you can make (RV-9A)

So tell me how the first 15 seconds and the last 15 seconds of your flight make you a better pilot? Does it help with risk assessment? Cockpit management? Weather analysis? IFR scan? radio work?

Oh yea, and I do have Cessna 140 time, Cessna 170B time, Citabria time, AND a couple of hours in a PT-23 (Ok, ONE landing in that)

Maybe those don't count because they are not REAL taildraggers.

Dkb
 
Thank you

ronschreck said:
This:

"I will stand up, raise my hand, and swear to you that if you have never flown a tailwheel airplane before, you do not know how to fly."

You are correct; it is not knee-jerk defensiveness because I do have plenty of tailwheel time. I might agree with her if she had said "if you have never flown a tailwheel airplane before you may not appreciate the skill required to make a textbook landing in a taildragger." I know a lot of fine pilots with zero tailwheel time and I take issue with Sarah's pronouncement on their behalf. When I had 3000 hours I thought I knew it all, too.

Having said that, I still say she is entitled to her opinion. As are we all.
Click to expand...

I wrote a reply but deleted it because it served no good purpose. I have well over 3,000 hours and zero tail wheel time, no multi engine time, no glider time, no balloon time, no counter rotating prop time, no autogyro time, no helicopter time, no jet time, no V-tail time, no twin rudder time, no dolly takoff/belly skid landing time, no seaplane time, no skiplane time, no multiwing time, no flying wing time, no canard time, no ultra lite time, no power parachute time, but it seems a little invalid to say that I don't know how to fly. Thank you for your balanced response.

Bob Axsom
 
Ron--

You're my hero, thanks for being more eloquent than I--evidently--can be.

BTW, I deleted the portion of MY post that discussed her experience of 3000 hrs...;)

Now if you want to "discuss" who lands better: a Navy guy, an Air Force Fighter guy or an Air Force Heavy guy, fights on! (wait, eliminate the Navy guy right off the bat)


:p:D:eek:


Joe
 
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You asked for it!

Terry Lutz said:
Is anyone aware of a remotely piloted UAV, military or civilian, that has conventional gear?
Click to expand...

hermes900.jpg


The Hermes 900 was displayed in a full scale, 15 m' wing span model representing the latest addition to the Hermes family of UAVs. The prototype is expected to fly this year.
 
I have no idea.....

how a P51, C150, 172 or anything else flies. I started building my RV6 about 3 1/2 years ago because a friend said he thought I could do it. I finished my airplane, got a friend to fly of the phase 1. At the end of it, he said get in, I'm going to teach you to fly. Now have about 60 takeoffs & landings, in about 25 hours. Some were prettier than others. Instructor said I could go solo anytime now. I guess it's just what you get use to. I really like my 6, but I'm going to go rent a 172 just to see what all the fuss is about pretty soon. Kind of worried about using a yoke.
 
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Nobody on earth...

CNEJR said:
.... Now have about 60 takeoffs & landings, in about 25 hours. Some were prettier than others. Instructor said I could go solo anytime now. .
Click to expand...

...can land an airplane perfectly every single time. A satisfactory, (not good), landing is one wherein the airplane is re-usable.:)

Best,
 
I'm biased, but I think aerobatics will teach you a lot more about flying than a tailwheel will. But I sure wouldn't say you don't really know how to fly unless you do aerobatics. Some of the best pilots in the world are bush pilots in Alaska. Many never fly tailwheel airplanes (or wheel planes at all), and definitely don't do aerobatics. :eek:
 
Boy Larry, I didn't take you for the kind of guy that lobs a pin-less grenade into a closet full of pilots then locks the door behind you! :D;)

Now personally, if you haven't flown a "glider" at 297 knots down final, you're not a real....oh, never mind - not going to go there!

If it flies - no matter what it is - it teaches you something. Learning more is good. Learn what you can afford to learn.

That's all I have to say about that!:p
 
IMHO, you guys are missing the basic issue

Riding in the boat isn't swimming.

Nosewheel, tailwhee? Bah.

Skydive - land on your feet - get out of the plane, and fly your body for a while.
Formation flying? It's a little different when you are holding your nose 3 inches from your coache's nose. At 120 mph.
Walk back from bad spots and your canopy flight decisions, and learn about the relative wind, movement of the air mass, and surface effects and the layers of wind that can occur.

Learn the ins and outs of surface and obstacle turbulence very personally.

See an accelerated Rocky Mountain sunset as you fall from 14000 ft, grinning madly.

Step off a balloon into the abyss, and learn the difference between knowing what your body is doing and where it's all located, and precisely knowing what your body is doing and where it's all located (and why you are rotating :)

-----------------------------
I'm choosing the way Joe appears to have proceeded - get some tailwheel time, and then make an informed decision.

I'm building an RV8eh, the Canadian-ized model with rear seat heat, and stuff that won't fail after being cold soaked at -45 for the winter. I hope.
 
"RV-8eh!!!" I love it! That is my new designator.


Go Blazers, Spitfires, Stars, Blackhawks and Flames!


:D:cool:



Joe
 
n5lp said:
And they give you many opportunities to experience landing gear configurations beyond the simple tail-dragger or nose-dragger.

Lets see, some that I have flown have been:

Four wheels (one main gear, one tiny tailwheel, two wingtip wheels and a nose skid)

One wheel (forward of the CG)

Three wheels in a line

Two wheels in a line

and the last one I had was

Five wheels (nose, main, tail and each wingtip)

and some have no wheels at all.

No endorsement required for any of these different configurations!
Click to expand...
Yep. Nothing like flying an aircraft with both a nose and tailwheel! :)

As for why no different endorsement is required, I've been curious. I fly RG sailplanes and TW sailplanes (my Libelle is both), but I have neither a complex airplane nor TW airplane endorsement (working on the TW airplane). The landing attitude is a little different for TW gliders, but the key is the lack of the swivelable TW. You can certainly ground loop a TW sailplane, but I think it's a lot easier to do in a TW airplane with that TW on a swivel.

TODR
 
It's just an expression!

I think too many people here are taking this expression much too literally. Have you heard the expression,
"To die for"? Do you take that literally?

In my opinion, the expression means that if you haven't flown a tailwheel aircraft, you have not attained as much proficiency as you could. Any time you expand your personal envelope, regardless of how, you will be a better pilot for it.
 
never enough learning

Oh, I'm going to learn to fly one, but I may or may not be building one.

Keep learning until they shovel the dirt in on top.
 
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