What's new
Van's Air Force

The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!

Garmin AXIS, Next Generation Integrated Flight Display

g3xpert said:
We will continue to sell G3X Touch displays and support new installations, including periodic software updates. We understand it is frustrating. The backend LRU's are largely unchanged, so upgrading from G3X Touch to AXIS Base displays is a relatively low burden from an installation standpoint.



If there were an unlikely failure of the HSDB network, the ARINC 429 > G5 path provides an alternate way for that information to be displayed to the pilot. You are correct however, there is a lot of redundancy built into a dual AXIS display installation, with GTN Xi connected directly to each display via HSDB.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response and understood on the relative "ease" of upgrade. I also understand that Garmin chooses to not publish any reasonable road map, even if it's <1 to 3 years. Whether that is worth it to Garmin from a competitive advantage standpoint vs partnering up with the customer with transparency, I do not know. However you measure the value of proposition one way or the other, I hope you can elevate internally the benefit of treating the experimental market as both a long term relationship, customer and partner. Keep improving the product, but communication matters too.

Thanks again.
 
g3xpert said:
The display pricing table is List Price. The price listed in each example is the Minimum Advertised Price. You will need to discuss pricing details more in depth with the Garmin dealer you order your equipment from.

Thanks,

Justin
Click to expand...
Will it be possible to use a dedicated autopilot control panel (507) with the Axis system or will the autopilot be controlled exclusively from the pfd?
 
Thinking about failure analysis, which is an important part of system integration:

A dual screen system with one GDU118NC and a GDU118 — seems like the PFD is a very vulnerable failure point, because if it turns into a pumpkin you not only lose PFD (which I assume reverts to the MFD) but also lose navigation and the built-in GAD; which then degrades the ability of a G5 to provide proper backup: No Nav and no autopilot, so you could be left hand flying (or perhaps autopilot flying in HDG mode only) in IMC while you figure out what went wrong with the PFD.

The number of eggs per basket changes the failure analysis from what we’re used to, so it won’t be the same as the G3X Touch. Blast radius of each box, and failure probabilities of complex boxes vs simple boxes. Will require careful thought during system design.

It seems to me that an external GTN and an external GAD29 might produce a more robust single-device-failure scenario than having everything built into the same box.

Unless you equip with two nav/com IFR displays, I guess.

Initial thoughts, I’m sure the safest combination of building blocks will become clearer when we’ve had time to internalize system capabilities and limitations.


- mark
 
Justin -
g3xpert said:
Altogether, 33 pin assignments remain unchanged between the G3X Touch P4X02 connector and AXIS flight display J1012 connector. Nine pins are assigned functions in J1012, that were unused and reserved for future use in G3X Touch. Up to eight pins may require reassignment, mainly to support the new HSDB architecture. Your CAN LRU's will remain unchanged.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the quick replies. One more question - the GMC507 is listed in the install manual as an AXIS LRU. Does this imply that those of us with GMC307s would have to change to the 507 to be AXIS compatible?

Dave
 
Bavafa said:
How much would be a COM, intercom and ARINC 429 be that you don't get with the Bx model. The $18k would cover those also.
Click to expand...
I was hoping that since everything is integrated, the cost is reduced but it's not the case. I was on watching on Youtube and the founder of Dynon was stressing the case for lower cost avionics.
 
svengru said:
I am working with my local Garmin shop to get two GDU 116BX and the needed G3x Touch to Axis upgrade kits ordered.
For the upgrade kit, I saw part number 010-14469-10 in the installation manual and that is what I asked the shop to order.

They came back stating that there a two different part numbers: 010-14469-10 for the B version and 010-14468-10 for the Bx in the Garmin system. The Bx one is only available in Q1 2027. @g3xpert which one is the correct one?
Click to expand...

These two kits are functionally identical. We will take a look at the discrepancy, but the Bx version should be available to order today.

Drum said:
Hi Justin - Are there any plans for a rebate program based on exchange of GDU 460/470’s for Axis?
Click to expand...

Not at this time.

tom paul said:
I understand the Axis will not accept ADSB In from the my GDL39. Can you please confirm this?
Click to expand...

That is correct. AXIS can receive ADS-B weather and traffic data from the GTX 345 family of transponders, GNX 375 or GDL 5X.

Bavafa said:
Would all the functions that currently available in GTN 650XI also be available in the 11NC model? What do I lose or gain in terms of functions between GTN XI and NC model?
Click to expand...

GTN Xi supports some LRU's that AXIS does not currently. Examples are GWX weather radar, GSR 56, and GMA 35C audio panels. For the purposes of navigating via GPS in the IFR system, there are no fundamental functional differences.

Estevanb said:
In the scenario where we have 2 Axis displays interconnected with GTN750Xi via HSDB, Will Data Concierge send GTN750Xi updates through the Axis display? Do I need FlightStream 510 on the GTN to make this update completely wireless?
Click to expand...

That is correct. There is no need for the FS510 in this installation.
 
Way back in 2006/7 time frame I brought up the concept of an "All in One" magic box with EFIS, Radios, transponder, autopilot, intercom etc.

Overall response was "No Way" from the VAF brain trust. Folks mentioned easy component replacement if one section failed, dead panel if one section failed, inability to pick/choose what was in the magic box, single source manufacture, ETC.

OH my, how the times have changed.
 
Last edited:
N161WM said:
Integration questions:
1) Will Axis support the WX500 lightning detector like the G3X did?
2) I have 2 x GA-37x antennas mounted. Can Axis use the GA-37 or GA-37x?
Click to expand...
Do you mean GA 57X?

WX-500 is not supported at this time.

rocketman1988 said:
Will it be possible to use a dedicated autopilot control panel (507) with the Axis system or will the autopilot be controlled exclusively from the pfd?
Click to expand...

The autopilot can be controlled using the display, a GMC 305, 307 or 507.

newt said:
Thinking about failure analysis, which is an important part of system integration:

A dual screen system with one GDU118NC and a GDU118 — seems like the PFD is a very vulnerable failure point, because if it turns into a pumpkin you not only lose PFD (which I assume reverts to the MFD) but also lose navigation and the built-in GAD; which then degrades the ability of a G5 to provide proper backup: No Nav and no autopilot, so you could be left hand flying (or perhaps autopilot flying in HDG mode only) in IMC while you figure out what went wrong with the PFD.

The number of eggs per basket changes the failure analysis from what we’re used to, so it won’t be the same as the G3X Touch. Blast radius of each box, and failure probabilities of complex boxes vs simple boxes. Will require careful thought during system design.

It seems to me that an external GTN and an external GAD29 might produce a more robust single-device-failure scenario than having everything built into the same box.

Unless you equip with two nav/com IFR displays, I guess.

Initial thoughts, I’m sure the safest combination of building blocks will become clearer when we’ve had time to internalize system capabilities and limitations.


- mark
Click to expand...

We went to great lengths to make this system as flexible as we could, and there are numerous permutations of system configurations.

You could pair a GDU 116NC with a GDU 116C to mitigate the total loss of navigation information due to the failure of PFD1 in a system with otherwise, no external IFR navigator. The G5 would mitigate against the loss of a system ADAHRS LRU (GSU 25).

Generally, for the case of a single IFR navigator in a system, the loss of the navigator is a single point failure to consider. Some options to consider for this case would be a GDU 116C and GDU 116Bx paired with a GNC 215 NAV/COM or maybe an SL30 wired to the base display in the system for upgrade installations. Another option would be a GDU 116NC paired with a GPS 175, if VHF NAV is not the navigation source you wish to back up.

flysrv10 said:
Cough cough! Will Axis play with Avidyne 540?

Video says GNC will work. Wondering if IFD mimics a GNC unit.
Click to expand...

We have an explicit limitation against 3rd party navigators in our installation manual at this time. We are working to resolve this limitation in a post-launch software release.
 
g3xpert said:
Generally, for the case of a single IFR navigator in a system, the loss of the navigator is a single point failure to consider. Some options to consider for this case would be a GDU 116C and GDU 116Bx paired with a GNC 215 NAV/COM or maybe an SL30 wired to the base display in the system for upgrade installations. Another option would be a GDU 116NC paired with a GPS 175, if VHF NAV is not the navigation source you wish to back up.
Click to expand...

Is it fair to say that if you have (say) a GPS 175 external navigator, you also need a GAD 29 in the system to make the G5 a well equipped backup?

There's a built-in GAD in the PFD, but if that goes on the blink then ... what?

Related question: Does the non-NC display have a VFR GPS with reversionary capability? i.e., if a -NC PFD fails, does the system gracefully degrade to VFR nav?

- mark
 
G3Xpert,

Starting from scratch.

If I go with this route,
One GDU 116N, does this give me any IFR approach capability? Something like an LOPV?
Or do I need to upgrade to the GDU116NC to be able to fly an IFR approach?

Thanks for all the great info on this!
 
newt said:
Is it fair to say that if you have (say) a GPS 175 external navigator, you also need a GAD 29 in the system to make the G5 a well equipped backup?

There's a built-in GAD in the PFD, but if that goes on the blink then ... what?

Related question: Does the non-NC display have a VFR GPS with reversionary capability? i.e., if a -NC PFD fails, does the system gracefully degrade to VFR nav?

- mark
Click to expand...
While the ARINC 429 connection is optional, this is how we show the interface in the installation manual. HSDB is very robust, but we aim to eliminate bottlenecks for critical flight information (ADAHRS, EIS, IFR Navigation).

All base displays have a built in GPS receiver just like G3X Touch, which the system would fail down to if your non-base display fails. Like G3X Touch, it is a different GPS receiver component, and does not meet TSO requirements for IFR Navigation.

skirting_virga said:
Does the 116Bx play with non-Xi navigators (625/635/650) the same way, or does the flight plan syncing and loading/activating approaches require an Xi?
Click to expand...
AXIS is fully compatible with GTN (non-Xi) and GNS navigator series. The fully integrated seamless flight plan syncing only occurs on HSDB navigators however (GPS 175, GNC 355, GNX 375, GTN Xi).

mtnbound said:
G3Xpert,

Starting from scratch.

If I go with this route,
One GDU 116N, does this give me any IFR approach capability? Something like an LOPV?
Or do I need to upgrade to the GDU116NC to be able to fly an IFR approach?

Thanks for all the great info on this!
Click to expand...
Great question. The GDU 116C has a built in IFR GPS receiver. This enables GPS RNAV approaches to LPV minima.

The GDU 116NC would include that same capability, in addition to a VHF NAV receiver. The VHF NAV receiver would provide an additional IFR approach capability, allowing for ILS and Localizer approaches, in the case that GPS is unavailable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: d11
@g3xpert Mostly from scratch panel upgrade planned for an RV6, looking at redundancy if the AXIS screen goes dark.

Planned equipment:
Single GDU116C w/LRU kit - IFR gps, comm, audio panel
Gtr205x - second comm
G5 for standby ADAHRS
GTX45r -adsb in/out txpdr
GMC507 - a/p ctrl
6ah standby battery
Engine monitoring will stay on existing CGR30

Are these assumptions correct if the GDU116C goes belly up in IMC:
G5 will be fully functional for aircraft control and will still be able to drive A/P? Is Gad29 required/beneficial?
Will gtr205x be available for comms with ATC for step down instructions to VFR wx/declaring an emergency and using iPad GPS functionality to get below min vectoring altitude if fuel is a concern?
Will GTX45r still provide txpdr info to ATC and fail to 7700 in this case? And is there any connectivity from GTX45R to display ads-b traffic and wx on an iPad if the GDU116C has failed?

*also, if I set altimeter on G5 will it crossfill to axis? Gad29 needed for this?
 
Last edited:
In addition to two of the 11" AXIS screens, I plan to have the following HSDB devices: GTN750Xi, GTR205, and GTX45R.

1) Can I eliminate the CAN connection to the radio and transponder? Would there be any benefit to retaining the CAN Bus connections?

2) I was already planning on an HSDB connection between the GTN750Xi and GTX45R. Instead do I now connect all three devices each to two screens, and the two screens to each other? Can the screens handle that many HSDB connections?
 
G3Xpert or anyone that might be in the know. . .

I am already in contact with my shop. I just want to clarify, the Gad29 does not need to be removed? Will act as a redundancy to AXIS. My panel thankfully has probably just the amount of space to slide right in to the 460 cut out. My main concern after that, is the set up. Is there a method for transferring all of the data, set up and features on my current 460 directly to the AXIS or should we expect to start from scratch? Are there any major changes required to harness? If this goes as seamlessly as it sounds like it might, then for those of us fully immersed in the Garmin ecosystem, they seem to have gone above and beyond to make it an easy upgrade.

Anybody want to buy a 460?
IMG_2751.jpeg
 
Last edited:
g3xpert,

Where I really like the new AXIS display, the two things I really like, is the 3D SafeTaxi and Runway Occupancy Awareness displays. Will this capability be available in the next G3X software update?

Thanks, and more questions to follow as this all sinks in.
 
Question regarding the upgrade process. The instructions state that one should export the configuration to a file from the G3x Touch before removal, but does not give instructions to import into the new AXIS screen. Is an import an options or will one have to manually reconfigure for example all sensor and other data?
 
EXTAAFLY said:
G3Xpert or anyone that might be in the know. . .

I am already in contact with my shop. I just want to clarify, the Gad29 does not need to be removed? Will act as a redundancy to AXIS.
Click to expand...
Hi, Jason,

The GAD 29 will provide redundancy for the G5 should the GDU 116 fail. We can keep it installed.

EXTAAFLY said:
My main concern after that, is the set up. Is there a method for transferring all of the data, set up and features on my current 460 directly to the AXIS or should we expect to start from scratch?
Click to expand...
See the AXIS Installation Manual, Appendix F, starting on page F-17. You'll find the whole process spelled out for you there:

1783572483172.png
 
FWIW the Trutrak Vizion servos fit the same brackets with the same hole patterns as the Garmin ones, in my experience.

- mark
 
svengru said:
Question regarding the upgrade process. The instructions state that one should export the configuration to a file from the G3x Touch before removal, but does not give instructions to import into the new AXIS screen. Is an import an options or will one have to manually reconfigure for example all sensor and other data?
Click to expand...
1783574049222.png
 
On the Garmin mapping page a single price is given for the experimental AXIS mapping bundle.
Can you please confirm that the mapping bundle pricing is the same for the GDU116Bx, GDU116C and GDU116NC ?

With 2 x G3X Touch there is a config module in the PFD connector allowing the System ID to be used by both GDU460.
This allows a single mapping bundle to be purchased and used on both GDU460.
Can you confirm a single mapping bundle is all that is required to be purchased for 2 x AXIS units ?

With a GDU116C (PFD) and GDU116Bx (MFD) I believe you can add a GTR205 remote radio.
If the PFD fails is the remote GTR205 usable ?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top