You want to discuss that with an attorney, as it sounds completely wrong. My understanding is that anything in your revocable trust is fair game in court judgements; zero liability shielding. Anything in your trust is still yours and therefore can be taken like anything else that is yours. You may be thinking of irrevocable trusts. In those cases, that money is essentially someone elses (no longer yours) that just doesn't have access to it yet. You can't take it back, and is therefore secure from judgements against you in many cases. Again, need atty input.
Van's Air Force
The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!
Estate Planniing Question
- Thread starter BlackhawkSP
- Start date
For what it’s worth, I’m actually a retired lawyer. You won’t see many lawyers commenting on these threads because most of us know better. I’ll throw in the standard disclaimer that this isn’t legal advice. I’m speaking in generalities, and not to anyone’s particular situation. As others have said the only way to have a high probability of getting this right is to consult an estate planning attorney in your state. Period.
There is incorrect information in almost every post in this thread. It would take all day to nitpick each of the 40 something posts. This being said, I’ll throw out just a few basic principles.
1. The form that Marlon posted that revived this 2024 thread is only applicable if you have not opened a probate proceeding. There’s a sentence in the middle of the document that says this, but doesn’t call it probate: “ that no application for appointment…”
2. Putting a plane in an LLC (or a Trust) almost never shields you from liability. If you own and manage the maintenance and upkeep of your airplane and/or if you fly your airplane, the LLC (Trust) will be a very minor hurdle for any plaintiff attorney. It can provide some anonymity for the Karen’s who watch ADSB. But even then, only if they’re not very ambitious.
3. The problem I’ve seen over and over with Living Trusts (a/k/a Revocable Trust) is that people fail to maintain them over the course of their lives. Everything starts out great when you do your estate planning at age 40. By the time you die at age 85, you’ve bought and sold almost everything in your life and haven’t bothered to take ownership in the name of the Trust. When you die, you end up with a few things left over in your Trust and most things outside your Trust. In the end, you’ve paid to have an attorney set up a Living Trist and then when you die, you pay to have an attorney initiate probate proceedings for everything you’ve failed to put in the Trust over the intervening 45 years. Probate is a complete pain in the tookus and expensive in some states. In other states that have adopted the Uniform Probate Code (or whatever it’s called now), it’s really not that big a deal. A reasonably intelligent person could probably DIY a probate in most jurisdictions. As with so many things, a problem in a highly bureaucratic and expensive state lead to a solution that was then promoted to other states that don’t have the same bureaucratic nightmare. Just because it’s good for folks in California doesn’t mean it’s good for everyone in the rest of the country. Again, ask your local estate planning attorney and make sure they can articulate a good reason to avoid probate in your state. So many times, selling a Living Trust is akin to selling extended warranties on VCR’s. I.e. it’s a good profit center, but seldom a logical decision on the part of the consumer.
4. Just because your state may or may not provide a form to transfer your car or trailer or whatever at the time of your death without going through probate does not mean that the state can do the same for your airplane. Cars, trucks, and trailers are handled at the state level. Airplanes are handled by the feds.
There is incorrect information in almost every post in this thread. It would take all day to nitpick each of the 40 something posts. This being said, I’ll throw out just a few basic principles.
1. The form that Marlon posted that revived this 2024 thread is only applicable if you have not opened a probate proceeding. There’s a sentence in the middle of the document that says this, but doesn’t call it probate: “ that no application for appointment…”
2. Putting a plane in an LLC (or a Trust) almost never shields you from liability. If you own and manage the maintenance and upkeep of your airplane and/or if you fly your airplane, the LLC (Trust) will be a very minor hurdle for any plaintiff attorney. It can provide some anonymity for the Karen’s who watch ADSB. But even then, only if they’re not very ambitious.
3. The problem I’ve seen over and over with Living Trusts (a/k/a Revocable Trust) is that people fail to maintain them over the course of their lives. Everything starts out great when you do your estate planning at age 40. By the time you die at age 85, you’ve bought and sold almost everything in your life and haven’t bothered to take ownership in the name of the Trust. When you die, you end up with a few things left over in your Trust and most things outside your Trust. In the end, you’ve paid to have an attorney set up a Living Trist and then when you die, you pay to have an attorney initiate probate proceedings for everything you’ve failed to put in the Trust over the intervening 45 years. Probate is a complete pain in the tookus and expensive in some states. In other states that have adopted the Uniform Probate Code (or whatever it’s called now), it’s really not that big a deal. A reasonably intelligent person could probably DIY a probate in most jurisdictions. As with so many things, a problem in a highly bureaucratic and expensive state lead to a solution that was then promoted to other states that don’t have the same bureaucratic nightmare. Just because it’s good for folks in California doesn’t mean it’s good for everyone in the rest of the country. Again, ask your local estate planning attorney and make sure they can articulate a good reason to avoid probate in your state. So many times, selling a Living Trust is akin to selling extended warranties on VCR’s. I.e. it’s a good profit center, but seldom a logical decision on the part of the consumer.
4. Just because your state may or may not provide a form to transfer your car or trailer or whatever at the time of your death without going through probate does not mean that the state can do the same for your airplane. Cars, trucks, and trailers are handled at the state level. Airplanes are handled by the feds.
Last edited:
What a great post!
I know that. I've said that probably a dozen times on these fora. I'm asking about the use of the FAA form shown above in the event the stated requirements (sole heir, etc.) are NOT met.
Color me surprised. /sAs you likely are aware, it’s best referred to as the “alleged” Montana license plate dodge.
Montana LLC Vehicle Registration: Risks & Tax Consequences - Milton Law Group Montana LLC Vehicle Registration: Risks, Tax Evasion & Legal Consequences
Thinking of using a Montana LLC to avoid sales and/or personal property tax on your car? Learn why this tax loophole can lead to penalties, legal trouble, and criminal charges.miltonlawgroup.com
