Whats up with improper Uncontrolled Airport procedures?

[John Clark]

Example:
Active runway is 27. Left-hand pattern. I'm approaching from the north. Do I:
1) Enter the pattern on downwind at a 45 from the north?
2) Enter the pattern on crosswind from the north?
3) Overfly the field (what altitude?), descend south of the field, and enter downwind on a 45 from the south?
4) Something else?

Let's see if I can give you a few views on this. First, there is no "one size fits all" answer to your questions. Local rules, noise abatement, and terrain all play into the answer. Assuming that the example airport is on flat ground with no restrictions, I would offer the following;

1) If you enter a 45 from the north you will be making right traffic in your example. So, lets go to your example 3. I would do this for several reasons. Overflying the airport gives you a chance to look at the wind (if there isn't an ASOS or airport advisory available) ans check for traffic. A thousand feet above the published traffic pattern altitude is fine. Cross above the airport, get clear of the pattern on the south side, decend and reverse course into a 45 entry for 27. A crosswind entry will work, but it puts you in the path of departing traffic.

There is no such thing as an "uncontrolled" airport, they are
pilot controlled. Many times a "pilot controlled" airport can be much more efficient than dealing with ATC. The trick is to keep your head on a swivel, communicate, and be willing to negotiate a little.

John Clark, ATP CFI
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

 

[grantcarruthers]

Live and learn. I almost got landed on by another plane on the down wind.[/B][/INDENT]

That's why I fly straight in, downwind is a zoo!!

 

[kentb]

Ted, your right, sort of.

Kent,

Its airport specific. I fly out of 7S3, and you have probably been there. It has a nice hump in the middle. Notice how you can't see aircraft on the touchdown roll from the departure position? I like it when other pilots tell me I can stop waiting for the runway to clear, cause it takes quite a bit of wait before they finally pop up over the hill. If they land short, make the first turnoff, and taxi to the hangers, I'll never see them. I don't like guessing.

Of course, you don't have to call it the "active".
T.J.

-----------------------------------
1. Using your radio to say "Clear of active" after landing.
Who cares! And I was taught to do this.
2. Not clearing the runway after landing, but taxing to the end instead of using the taxiway.
-----------------------------------

I was thinking more of at UAO, 1 mile long and flat. But even at a airport like 7s3 the call is of little help. When you start rolling you better be ready to abort until you can see enough room to takeoff in. Even if someone has cleared the runway, someone else could have entered deciding that they wanted to cross to the other side.

Kent

 

[kentb]

I do...

BINGO! The question should be, does everyone else feel "safer"?

I don't fly jets, although I wouldn't mind the experience if anyone is offering.

I do fly my pattern close to the airport (1/2 on downwind). If a jet flies a standard pattern they will be 500 ft higher and 1 or more miles wider. Their final will be two or more miles out.

This means that I have to be looking for this unusual traffic all over the place, I would rather just have it on a long final and work my pattern around it. This is not to say that I would be happy with someone that could fly a compatible traffic pattern to come bombing into the airport on a direct final. There is a difference between being sensible and discourtious.

Kent

 

[Dgamble]

FAA: CLEAR IT UP!!

(Note: The AIM is not the LAW, the courts have set president, its regulatory in nature. Not following it can mean the catch all - reckless operations.)

Who benefits from this kind of regulatory ambiguity? In my opinion, there should be one set of regulations, not a set of poorly worded generalities seconded by an arbitrary collection of "suggestions." While offering the downside of taking the wind out of discussions like this, the benefit would be in having a single set of clearly defined rules that would force everyone to sing from the same hymnal, so to speak.

 

[Bill Dicus]

Straight in final

I've seen and heard of too many accidents on final - low wing above, high wing below, and nearly was involved in one flying a Pitts S-1S. Flying a standard pattern gives me a look at the entire pattern and a chance to see someone either on or entering final who might pose a conflict. Just one man's thought!
I understand the appeal and utility of a straight in at an isolated low traffic field. Jets have a small frontal area and sight picture - might be hard for me to see and a long final! Bill

 

[mikegraycmg]

Long final

Straight in approach to an isolated field with no one in the pattern? I'm fine with that, as long as you make frequent radio calls and make yourself as visible as possible.

Cutting someone off in the pattern? That's a really bad practice, as far as I'm concerned. The guy you cut off my be a student pilot in a Cessna and may not know how to react. Remember, those planes float a long way, and often make wide patterns. Give them a break.

Taking off at an isolated airport downwind in your business jet without tuning in to the CTAF while I have to scramble to get out of your way? It has happened to me. Getting in a hurry and thinking you are too important for common courtesy and safety procedures not only can cause accidents, but also creates resentment.

 

[L.Adamson]

If a jet flies a standard pattern they will be 500 ft higher and 1 or more miles wider. Their final will be two or more miles out.

This means that I have to be looking for this unusual traffic all over the place, I would rather just have it on a long final and work my pattern around it. This is not to say that I would be happy with someone that could fly a compatible traffic pattern to come bombing into the airport on a direct final. There is a difference between being sensible and discourtious.

Exactly! And we'll assume that the straight in jet, and traffic in the pattern are using "radios", which makes it easy to accommodate the jet.

IMO, after living under a non-towered airport pattern for eight years, and frequently using my scanners, I believe that all aircraft should have some kind of a communication radio these days!

At worst, a handheld radio can be had for cheap.

Unless you're flying in areas such as the old days, with miles of rural farmland and few aircraft; then get a stinking com radio, and do your part to keep the skies safer!

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

To argue that any method of pattern operation other than the recommended or legal procedures is baseless, irresponsible and arrogant, if not bordering on lunacy.

FWIW

Consider the following items from AC 90-66A, Recommended Standard Traffic Patterns and Practices for Aeronautical Operations at Airports without Operating Control Towers. How many normally practiced procedures are not consistent with these procedures? Short approaches come to mind.

e. The base leg turn should commence when the aircraft is at a point approximately 45 degrees relative bearing from the runway threshold.

f. Landing and takeoff should be accomplished on the operating runway most nearly aligned into the wind. However, if a secondary runway is used, pilots using the secondary runway should avoid the flow of traffic to the runway most nearly aligned into the wind.

g. Airplanes on takeoff should continue straight ahead until beyond the departure end of the runway. Aircraft executing a go-around maneuver should continue straight ahead, beyond the departure end of the runway, with the pilot maintaining awareness of other traffic so as not to conflict with those established in the pattern. In cases where a go-around was caused by an aircraft on the runway, maneuvering parallel to the runway may be required to maintain visual contact with the conflicting aircraft.

h. Airplanes remaining in the traffic pattern should not commence a turn to the crosswind leg until beyond the departure end of the runway and within 300 feet below traffic pattern altitude, with the pilot ensuring that the turn to downwind leg will be made at the traffic pattern altitude.

i. When departing the traffic pattern, airplanes should continue straight out or exit with a 45-degree left turn (right turn for right traffic pattern) beyond the departure end of the runway after reaching pattern altitude. Pilots need to be aware of any traffic entering the traffic pattern prior to commencing a turn.