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What is the recommended fireproof sealant to plug the firewall?

rockyfatcat

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What should I use for fireproof sealant for the firewall?

The builder apparently was not concerned with carbon monoxide and where he did use something it has crumbled. So before I use red RTV from the auto store or pop for some really expensive thixotropic silicone paste. I thought I would query the VAF brain trust. image.jpg
What would you use?
 
DanH did some actual testing of various sealants and has a long thread of this subject here on the forum. Very good info on his findings.
 
Would you also use that when riveting together the two (upper and lower) firewall parts?
It was not available when I pounded mine together but, if it had been, I would have used it. In moderation. It has been tested to be a good sealer for anything exposed to fire and would be cheaper and easier to work with than ProSeal or something similar. IMHO; YMMV, of course.
 
Balancing cost vs fire performance, it's hard to beat Firebarrier 2000+. As others have noted, the "Firebarrier" products at the big box stores are usually the latex versions, not silicone, and thus not suitable for our application.

In 2023 I burned up a rather large pile of stainless steel sheets, with multiple firewall seam sealants. If you want an aerospace certified firewall sealant, I recommend Dapco 2100. Single part, convenient to use, works as well as the two-part aerospace choices. It's not significantly better than Firebarrier, but definitely costs more.

ScreenHunter_2727 Mar. 03 07.23.jpg

No known firewall sealant will maintain a sealed seam in a Vans multi-part firewall when subjected to anything like the FAA standard fire test. The best you can hope for is good sealing during normal operations.

This unwelcome reality has little to do with sealant choice. It's a matter of material properties. When subjected to higher temperatures, three things happen.

First, the aluminum rivets soften and melt. Here's a chart from an accepted design guide. Fty is tensile yield strength. It's down to 20% by 600F. At around 1100F aluminum rivets liquify. The fire standard is 2000F.

Aluminum Yield vs Temperature.jpg

Second, the stainless sheet expands in the hot area while being constrained at the cooler sheet edges. The inevitable result is severe wrinkling along the length of the seam in the hot region. The forces involved quickly fail heat-softened rivets, and the seam spreads open. Here's an example, as observed over and over. The aluminum structural angle and rivet spacing is typical for an RV.

ScreenHunter_2728 Mar. 03 07.54.jpg

Third, fire flows through the gap, and the sealant itself begins to burn. Firewall sealants are rubber based or silicone based. When exposed to fire, they ablate and char, but neither is fireproof at the temperatures involved here, and they cannot maintain a seal when the gap grows to 10 or 20 or 30 times its original thickness.

Yes, I tried monel rivets. Even at half the standard rivet pitch, the stainless sheet still gaps enough to allow fire passage. However, there was one successful combination, flanged stainless panels combined with monel rivets and Firebarrier 2000. The flanges stiffened the panel edges enough to kill the wrinkling and gapping. Unfortunately, flanging isn't an option for firewall panels as supplied in the kits.

ScreenHunter_2729 Mar. 03 09.12.jpg

Cabin side, unshielded firewall, flanged seam, monel rivets, FB2000+ sealant. Forceps clamp a thermocouple. The light gray is silicone soot, as the sealant burns at a low level where exposed to air (note the tiny flame a minute or two into the test), but the seam did not open.

IMG_8522 800w.jpg

Which brings us back to sealants. Do not use proseal. I was unable to establish an accurate ignition temperature for polysulfide sealant, but it is clearly way below that of any aerospace sealant or Firebarrier 2000. Plus it tends to liquify when heated, boil out of the joint, and ignite even before the joint gaps open...in seconds.

Video Snip.jpg

Here's an RV-7 full size test article. In this example, the front side is insulated/shielded, but even so, proseal doesn't work. The seam around the recess was sealed with Firebarrier 2000 at photo left, and proseal at photo right.

Exposed Proseal1000w.jpg
 
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3M Fire Barrier 2000 for $10.00 a tube.
Balancing cost vs fire performance, it's hard to beat Firebarrier 2000+. As others have noted, the "Firebarrier" products at the big box stores are usually the latex versions, not silicone, and thus not suitable for our application.

How do you know which one... latex vs silicone... PN? SKU?

I guess I answered my own question, 3M Fire Barrier 2000 is the silicon version. The other 3M Firelock products do not say "3M Fire Barrier 2000". They are different 3M products altogether. The "2000" says Silicon on the tube. I assume it is compactable with metal.

Not seeing anything for $10.... close to $30 to $40 for 10.3 OZ.

Readily available is Permatex Ultra Red resists temperatures up to 650°F (343°C). Which I guess is not good enough.
 
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3M Fire Barrier 2000 for $10.00 a tube.


How do you know which one... latex vs silicone... PN? SKU?

I guess I answered my own question, 3M Fire Barrier 2000 is the silicon version. The other 3M Firelock products do not say "3M Fire Barrier 2000". They are different 3M products altogether. The "2000" says Silicon on the tube. I assume it is compactable with metal.

Not seeing anything for $10.... close to $30 to $40 for 10.3 OZ.

Readily available is Permatex Ultra Red resists temperatures up to 650°F (343°C). Which I guess is not good enough.

In the past there was a cheaper latex version with the same name being sold in the box stores which was confusing. It appears that 3M decided to eliminate that confusion and has renamed the latex products.
 
Does the 3M Fire Barrier flow well enough that it can be allowed to cure on the firewall flanges with clecoes? Or should I plan to rivet everything at once?
 
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Does the 3M Fire Barrier flow well enough that it can be allowed to cure on the firewall flanges with clecoes? Or should I plan to rivet everything at once?
A thin layer cured while clecoed would probably work okay, but if I were going to put sealant between the flanges (I did not), I'd rather rivet it wet. At least on the 9A firewall, the flange has very few breaks, so I felt better just having a solid riveted joint without sealant and only filling gaps in the corners with fire sealant.
 
Does the 3M Fire Barrier flow well enough that it can be allowed to cure on the firewall flanges with clecoes? Or should I plan to rivet everything at once?
I used the 3M Fire Barrier, clecoed every other hole, then riveted the open holes, removed the clecoes and did the rest. The stuff flows like caulking.
 
I was mostly concerned with the rivets for the cowling hinges. I had planned to rivet everything else, but leave those rivet holes open until later in the build.
 
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