Requesting Pireps on Pmag

[prkaye]

I have a lightspeed ingition on my right side and a Slick mag on the left. After the mag was overhauled as part of an IRAN, the engine seems to be running a bit rough when firing on just the mag (it runs beautifully on the lightspeed alone). Also, yesterday my RPM indication (which is fed from the mag's p-lead) momentarily dropped to zero when I reduced power for landing. Something seems not right. I'll keep diagnosing the mag issue, but it is making me think of making another investment and replacing it with a PMag. I'm looking for thoughts, positive or negative, on the PMag system.
1) Ease of install (for someone who has never installed a mag on an engine) - the description in the manual looks straight-foward. Is it as easy as it appears?
2) Reliability and maintenance requirements - advertised as basically maintenance-free. Is this true?
3) Responsiveness of the company for customer support?
4) Will the PMag play well with having the Lightspeed on the other side? Thinking that these systems will have different curves in terms of how they adjust timing at different power settings. Could this be an issue?
Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Kyle Boatright]

The company is supportive. The "maintenance free" aspect is actually somewhat worse (IM0) than a mag. You're supposed to remove the pMag on a yearly basis to check for slop in the shaft. In theory, you only remove a mag once every 500 hours. Resetting the timing on the pMag is easier, but pulling and reinstalling it every year does take a few minutes, a new gasket, etc.

I have no complaints about the pMag, but it isn't the end-all, be-all. I'm considering an EI for one side of the RV-10 and am having the big internal debate. The Surefly is leading the pack by a tiny amount at the moment. A decision is NOT imminent.

 

[Bavafa]

I started using PMAG some 10-12 years ago first on my 7A with one PMAG and then both and now I am on my third RV and all have had PMAGs for ignition. That ought to answer your question 1 thru 3.
The installation as well as the annual check is very easy and will take about 30 minutes realistically which is no issue when it is once a year.
I can't think of any other EI that is easier to install, especially in an already built RV.
As of today, If I build another RV, it will have PMAGs for ignition.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

Three builds and all running pMags - as will the new RV-10.

In addition to the gain in cruise efficiency over mags, the use of ~$2 auto spark plugs and one blade starts the after the sale support from Brad at eMag is the gold standard for the industry.

Now overlay the other options as far as complexity (read back up power systems) the scale tilts to pMags - at least for me and my buddies flying behind them.

I know of one RV-8 that started life with dual Lightspeed igntions. One died early on and was replaced with a pMag - and it seemed to run just fine with one of each. His plan is to replace the remaining Lightspeed when it dies with another pMag.

Carl

 

[wirejock]

P-mag

Brad is very supportive. One of the few that actually answers the phone and returns calls promply.
Install is easy but a bit more work on the left if removing an Impulse. The mount and studs have to be removed and new studs installed. The gear has to be installed on both P-mags. Wiring can be basic. Just power, ground and P-lead or add the data circuit for management.
No PIREP on peeformance. Mine haven't flown yet.

 

[Ironflight]

Four Lycomings in our family hangar, all with dual P-Mags. We’ve got thousands of hours on them altogether, and I have no interest in using anything else because I like the internal fault tolerance, lack of requirement airframe power (once started), and overall simplicity.

Now how will it play with another EI? I can’t answer that question, but would seriously look into it and find someone who has that configuration to comment.

Paul

 

[prkaye]

The mount and studs have to be removed and new studs installed.

The mag i would be replacing is on the left (impulse coupling). Can you point me to a part number (preferably ACS) for the new studs?
Instructions for removin the mount and studs and installing new studs? Is this straight-forward? I've never taken my mag off.

 

[akschu]

As you can see lots of people love them so you will get very good PIRPS.

For my part, I went with a crank trigger system like your light speed because I didn't want to replace one mechanical thing with another (the pmag still has shafts, bearings, gears, windings) especially when it (along with the electronics) is bolted to a hot vibrating engine.

So, it basically comes down to install and what mode of failure you are more comfortable with. Pmag install is super easy while crank trigger stuff more involved. Pmag mode of failure is mechanical or internal pickup/electronics while subject to engine heat and vibration while crank trigger stuff is magnetic pickup, electronics, wiring, and battery with only the pickup exposed to vibration.

 

[Taltruda]

The mag i would be replacing is on the left (impulse coupling). Can you point me to a part number (preferably ACS) for the new studs?
Instructions for removin the mount and studs and installing new studs? Is this straight-forward? I've never taken my mag off.

Emagair has all the parts (studs, gears, ect)

 

[jjconstant]

My initial build had the LASAR system because I liked the design philosophy. Within the first 100 hours the left mag shaft sheared just inside the accessory case.

I replace the LASAR system with dual PMags, I think in 2012. My feeling was that they supplied what the LASAR supplied in terms of redundancy, but were much more reliable. There were a few small initial problems with the mags themselves but very good support. Sent replacements very promptly. After the initial teething problems they have been absolutely trouble free for 10 years. I wouldn’t hesitate to go with them again.

 

[wirejock]

Mags

The mag i would be replacing is on the left (impulse coupling). Can you point me to a part number (preferably ACS) for the new studs?
Instructions for removin the mount and studs and installing new studs? Is this straight-forward? I've never taken my mag off.

E-mag has all the parts.
You'll need a gear for the P-mag. The impulse gear won't work.
Remove the nuts and clamps holding the impulse mag but hold it against the case till the nuts and wedge clamps are clear and safely secured. You don't want parts to fall inside.
Remove the impulse mag.
Remove the standoff mount. It may be stuck with a gasket.
Cover the hole with painters tape so nothing can fall in.
Remove the studs.
I used this Stud Remover. They must use red locktite because they were very tight.
Install new studs. I used blue locktite.
Install the gear on the P-mag. Read the manual. Washers are used to set the torque and location of the cotter pin hole alignment.
Slip the hose on the fitting and install the supplied clamp. Impossible to do after the mag is installed.
Carefully remove the tape and clean up.
Install the gasket and mag.
Hold it in place and snug a wedge clamp and nut so it won't tip. Again, no parts falling inside. Install the second.
Rotate it so you have access to the plugs. They have tiny screws.
Wire the plug and install.
Put the engine at TDC.
Power the mag with P-lead grounded.
Blow in the tube.
Shut off power
Hook the tube to manifold pressure.
Basically that's it.

 

[prkaye]

Thanks!
The one available at Aircraft spruce Canada apperas to be an older model? Significantly less expensive than the current model P114_l4 pricing at emagair. Spruce shows the manufacturer part number as EMA01401.
Do any of you know how old this model is? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/eMagIgnition.php

 

[rv8ch]

Thanks!
The one available at Aircraft spruce Canada apperas to be an older model? Significantly less expensive than the current model P114_l4 pricing at emagair. Spruce shows the manufacturer part number as EMA01401.
Do any of you know how old this model is? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/eMagIgnition.php

Looks like the current model to me, and the pricing on ACS at the link you referenced seems the same as the pricing on the emagair website - $1785.00/Each.

https://emagair.com/pricing/

 

[prkaye]

oh you're right about hte pricing.... i thought i was looking at ACS Canada pricing in Canadian dollars but i just checked. Nope, it's 2624CAD Ugh.

 

[prkaye]

And actually, it looks like the ACS Canada pricing is too high given current exchange rates so I would be better off to buy at American pricing. Does anybody know if emagair will sell directly? They don't seem to have a buy option on their website.

 

[Dad's RV-10]

... Does anybody know if emagair will sell directly? They don't seem to have a buy option on their website.

Yes, I bought my 6 cylinder units directly from EmagAir.

[email protected]

 

[Richard Connell]

The company is supportive. The "maintenance free" aspect is actually somewhat worse (IM0) than a mag. You're supposed to remove the pMag on a yearly basis to check for slop in the shaft. In theory, you only remove a mag once every 500 hours. Resetting the timing on the pMag is easier, but pulling and reinstalling it every year does take a few minutes, a new gasket, etc.

I have no complaints about the pMag, but it isn't the end-all, be-all. I'm considering an EI for one side of the RV-10 and am having the big internal debate. The Surefly is leading the pack by a tiny amount at the moment. A decision is NOT imminent.

My experience mirrors this.
I replaced the mag on my rv7 with a Pmag at about 400h.
Zero issues to report with the Pmag over the subsequent 7 or so years.
I did however find that the 100h inspection eventually became a little tedious so my RV10 got a Surefly.

 

[Dean Pichon]

I've been running PMags since 2009 and have nothing but good things to say about their performance and the company's customer service.

I have two gripes that I have shared with Brad:

The service instruction to remove them annually to check bearing play a pain. In my 4, in order to remove the mags, I have to get a lot of other **** out of the way first. It always takes way longer than it should. If either mag has go go in for service, it at least doubles the length of the Condition Inspection. I sent both in for "flat rate service" this year while the plane was in the paint shop. One mag had some play. The bearings of both mags were replaced. (Customer service!). When I called to check on status, I was told that the replacement bearings were larger than the previous size and bearing play should no longer be an issue. I did not ask if the annual service instruction would be amended.

The other gripe is that the (electrical) connector uses screw-type clamps on the individual wires. At each annual, I check the tightness of each screw. Often, I find one or more slightly loose. I feel this should be a more robust connector. I'm told the certified versions have a 38999 connector or similar.

I hope to get to Oshkosh next month and see if Emagair has any product improvements to debut...

 

[mburch]

The other gripe is that the (electrical) connector uses screw-type clamps on the individual wires. At each annual, I check the tightness of each screw. Often, I find one or more slightly loose. I feel this should be a more robust connector. I'm told the certified versions have a 38999 connector or similar.

I hope to get to Oshkosh next month and see if Emagair has any product improvements to debut...

I once asked somebody in their Oshkosh booth about these cheesy connectors, and his reply was "if you have a better idea why don't you design your own ignition". Put me off the brand entirely.

 

[wirejock]

Connector

I once asked somebody in their Oshkosh booth about these cheesy connectors, and his reply was "if you have a better idea why don't you design your own ignition". Put me off the brand entirely.

Crimp a ferrule on each wire.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

I once asked somebody in their Oshkosh booth about these cheesy connectors, and his reply was "if you have a better idea why don't you design your own ignition". Put me off the brand entirely.

Too bad - sounds like you got someone having a bad day….

I really don’t have an issue with the connectors - and over the last ~17 years have never had a problem with them.

Of note, the 200 series of pMags (six cylinder) has a standard MIL plug that I suspect better meets your criteria. Rumor has it that pMag is setting up for TSO certification and the changes made to the 200 series reflects design options toward that end.

Carl

 

[Bavafa]

Too bad - sounds like you got someone having a bad day….

I really don’t have an issue with the connectors - and over the last ~17 years have never had a problem with them.

Of note, the 200 series of pMags (six cylinder) has a standard MIL plug that I suspect better meets your criteria. Rumor has it that pMag is setting up for TSO certification and the changes made to the 200 series reflects design options toward that end.

Carl

Plus 1 .....

 

[Dean Pichon]

Crimp a ferrule on each wire.

I like that idea. Have you confirmed that a ferrule will fit within the opening of the clamp assembly? I would like to have some ferrules on hand so the next time the mags are out for service I can make this change.

 

[Dad's RV-10]

I like that idea. Have you confirmed that a ferrule will fit within the opening of the clamp assembly?...

I snapped this pic of a P-Mag with ferrules while at Sun 'n Fun.

Here's an old post on the topic.

 

[drill_and_buck]

I ordered my engine from Mattatuck in 2006 with 2 Pmags. I’ve had the opportunity to go through several iterations of the product. Absolutely no regrets. I think they are a great value and support is outstanding.

As noted, terminating your harness with ferrules will help increase the integrity of the connection.

 

[wirejock]

Ferrule

I like that idea. Have you confirmed that a ferrule will fit within the opening of the clamp assembly? I would like to have some ferrules on hand so the next time the mags are out for service I can make this change.

Yep. I also have a data cable routed inside for each P-mag so every pin is utilized. Not run yet so I can't comment on longevity. Shared wires are combined with solder sleeves before the Ferrule.
Digikey has the connector if anyone needs replacement.
I do recall a thread discussing why they were chosen and it seems like a lot of testing was done. Ultimately it was the one least likely to have wires fail due to vibration.

 

[Bavafa]

A classic case of "don't fix it if it aint broke"

A simple call to Brad at EMAG will clear any concerns with these connectors about their failure rates.
They have done a number of revisions to the product to improve it and one would think if this connector was prone to failure, they would have modified it by now.

 

[tass]

Does anyone have a picture they can share of how they routed blast air towards the p-mags, and what parts they used to do so?

 

[MacCool]

Does anyone have a picture they can share of how they routed blast air towards the p-mags, and what parts they used to do so?

On my airplane, the blast tubes are Van's 3/4 inch corrugated tubing. Each tube comes out of the back of the plenum and is aimed at the pmag. 450 hours, and the heat stickers are still white.


..

 

[Ironflight]

On my airplane, the blast tubes are Van's 3/4 inch corrugated tubing. Each tube comes out of the back of the plenum and is aimed at the pmag. 450 hours, and the heat stickers are still white.


..

An easy way to aim the tubing at the right spot is to wrap a long piece of safety wire around the “ribbed” part of the P-Mag, twist it, and run it up the sender of the tubing. It comes out on the front of the baffles, and you can tie it to something up there. Now the blast tube will always point at the right spot on teh P-Mag.

 

[pilotkms]

1,122 hours as of today. I like the connectors, no ferrules. Have done the 100hr inspection 10 times. EZ for me. Sent both in for the Total Checkup last month during my CI, same as my 6 yr Hartzell Prop overhaul. They changed the bearings in both. Said my heat indicator had turned slightly gray and to check my cooling ducts. I increased both hoses from 5/8” to 1”. EZ mod.

 

[tass]

On my airplane, the blast tubes are Van's 3/4 inch corrugated tubing. Each tube comes out of the back of the plenum and is aimed at the pmag. 450 hours, and the heat stickers are still white.


..

Thank you!

I have a picture from under the cowling I took a little while ago, and it looks like I already have these pointed at the mags - I forgot all about it I'll have to measure them to make sure they're the right size, and potentially run safety wire through them as suggested by Paul.

 

[MacCool]

Thank you!

I have a picture from under the cowling I took a little while ago, and it looks like I already have these pointed at the mags - I forgot all about it I'll have to measure them to make sure they're the right size, and potentially run safety wire through them as suggested by Paul.

Paul's idea is clever. Mine are just held in place with Adele clamps, which also seems to work just fine.

I recently had an issue that I thought might be ignition but burned out to be fuel-related. I called Emag hoping to chat about it, and unlike some customer service departments at some companies, the guy I spoke with at Emag we friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable. He was definitely not in a rush to get me off the phone. Refreshing and very helpful. Totally in line with their reputation.

 

[rv8ch]

Thank you!

I have a picture from under the cowling I took a little while ago, and it looks like I already have these pointed at the mags - I forgot all about it I'll have to measure them to make sure they're the right size, and potentially run safety wire through them as suggested by Paul.

Hi Tass, has that engine ever flown? Sure looks clean. One question - what is that hard line with the loop at the bottom of the picture? Primer?

 

[ronrapp]

I know of one RV-8 that started life with dual Lightspeed igntions. One died early on and was replaced with a pMag - and it seemed to run just fine with one of each. His plan is to replace the remaining Lightspeed when it dies with another pMag.

My RV-6 also has a pMag and a Lightspeed Plasma III. No issues I'm aware of.

--Ron

 

[DCBrown198]

I have two P-Mags on my IO-540 on my-10.

Have worked well.

One issue I did encounter is that they are surprisingly sensitive to voltage drops during start. If bus voltage drops below 10.5 volts or so they may not throw a spark.

My airplane was wired to Van's typical design with bus power coming from battery side of start contactor. First flights were done with two new main batteries and I had no issues. After a while, the batteries were not quite 100% and my bus voltage was falling below the threshold during start. Thought I had fuel servo issues...but no, it was the ignition.

Brad advised that -10s, with rear located main batteries, pulling power from start contactor post were sometimes getting too much voltage drop between the battery(s) and starter contactor during start.

I then ran an dedicated #6 wire from battery contactor to bus panel in hopes of avoiding that main wire run voltage drop during starts. That has mostly fixed the problem.

However, I also added a plug-in direct power routing behind the instrument panel for the #1 ignition. I use a small battery pack made of 8 AA batteries. When I plug that in, it is hot wired to the ignition. When using this backup battery pack the #1 ignition is always assured of 12v during start. The battery pack has been beneficial at times.

 

[tass]

Hi Tass, has that engine ever flown? Sure looks clean. One question - what is that hard line with the loop at the bottom of the picture? Primer?

It's a photo from a little while back, so maybe slightly less clean today, but I'm fairly regularly under the cowling and try not to let too much gunk accumulate (but boy oil changes with that screen housing make that difficult!)

The hard line goes to the firewall, then has a tube to a MAP sensor.

 

[FlyFastJP]

I had a single pmag and the EI commander on my -4 for a couple years with zero issues. When I upgraded to 10:1 pistons, I added another pmag. About 20 minutes into break in flight, engine intermittently wanted to come out of the plane. Being above my airport, I shut her down and deadsticked it in.

After a couple hours of trying to figure out what I did wrong on the engine, I turned to ignition. EI commander showed the new pmag was intermittently firing at 43 BTDC. I called Brad and discussed. We both agreed that it was near impossible for that to happen. He took them both back to diagnose and upgrade. He could find no fault.

Brad is a great guy to deal with. I have no issues with him or pmags. But without a problem or explanation found, it rattled me enough to change ignition type. I immediately sold them both and bought the dual CPI-2 with battery backup.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

I have a lightspeed ingition on my right side and a Slick mag on the left. After the mag was overhauled as part of an IRAN, the engine seems to be running a bit rough when firing on just the mag (it runs beautifully on the lightspeed alone). Also, yesterday my RPM indication (which is fed from the mag's p-lead) momentarily dropped to zero when I reduced power for landing. Something seems not right. I'll keep diagnosing the mag issue, but it is making me think of making another investment and replacing it with a PMag. I'm looking for thoughts, positive or negative, on the PMag system.
1) Ease of install (for someone who has never installed a mag on an engine) - the description in the manual looks straight-foward. Is it as easy as it appears?
2) Reliability and maintenance requirements - advertised as basically maintenance-free. Is this true?
3) Responsiveness of the company for customer support?
4) Will the PMag play well with having the Lightspeed on the other side? Thinking that these systems will have different curves in terms of how they adjust timing at different power settings. Could this be an issue?
Thanks for any thoughts!

See My Post in this section called E-Mag Customer Service is Awesome. I sent my two P-Mags out for upgrade... above and beyond service.