Question For Professional Pilots

[Rhino889]

Most RJ airlines are not working under a FOQA program. Most major airlines with perhaps one note able exception have FOQA or the snitch as it is more commonly called. Every landing is essentially graded. Bust any stabilized approach criteria and your phone will be ringing later. Bust any limitation inflight and again the phone will be ringing and worse yet the jet will be grounded wherever it is at for inspection if you did not make a log book entry at the time it occurred. Exceed VMO by 1/2 a knot and get one click out of the over speed clicker and the snitch swings into action! With winglets reducing max speed on many jets normal operating speeds are often within a few knots of limitations. It's really frustrating when the auto throttles/autopilot exceed a limit and then the jet turns you in!
George

Exactly what I was going to post.

RJ days could be filled with a 45 degree back on short final 100' off the ground.

Airbus snitches if the engine aren't off idle stops while crossing 1000' and stable.

Jumpseats are open for the controllers. Come out for a ride and see the BS we deal with. You can let us know the BS you have to deal with too.

 

[pilotpip]

Most RJ airlines are not working under a FOQA program. Most major airlines with perhaps one note able exception have FOQA or the snitch as it is more commonly called. Every landing is essentially graded. Bust any stabilized approach criteria and your phone will be ringing later. Bust any limitation inflight and again the phone will be ringing and worse yet the jet will be grounded wherever it is at for inspection if you did not make a log book entry at the time it occurred. Exceed VMO by 1/2 a knot and get one click out of the over speed clicker and the snitch swings into action! With winglets reducing max speed on many jets normal operating speeds are often within a few knots of limitations. It's really frustrating when the auto throttles/autopilot exceed a limit and then the jet turns you in!
George

This is changing quickly. A number of regionals have had FOQA programs for quite a while. Not nearly as long as most majors (just like AQP and other "new" programs that are designed to enhance safety). Most data triggers have "grades", for lack of a better way to put it. While everything is recorded, some events may not be placed as an important event such as exceeding Vapp by 2kts because of gusts, but 10kts may get a "phone call". Of course the hard limitations such as flap and gear extension speeds have no "cushion" if you will.

A lot of people still have problems with FOQA programs but in most cases they are run by the pilot group/union in coordination with the company. It bothers me that people look at it as "snitching" rather than seeing it as a means to improve safety and focus on trends within the pilot group that could be harmful.

 

[Echo Tango]

Most RJ airlines are not working under a FOQA program. Most major airlines with perhaps one note able exception have FOQA or the snitch as it is more commonly called. Every landing is essentially graded. Bust any stabilized approach criteria and your phone will be ringing later. Bust any limitation inflight and again the phone will be ringing and worse yet the jet will be grounded wherever it is at for inspection if you did not make a log book entry at the time it occurred. Exceed VMO by 1/2 a knot and get one click out of the over speed clicker and the snitch swings into action! With winglets reducing max speed on many jets normal operating speeds are often within a few knots of limitations. It's really frustrating when the auto throttles/autopilot exceed a limit and then the jet turns you in!
George

That makes a lot of sense. Speed bird came in one day and explained something to that effect, which is why they always request ILS approaches. Was under the impression that it wasn't that common though. Appreciate the explanation!

 

[Echo Tango]

Exactly what I was going to post.

RJ days could be filled with a 45 degree back on short final 100' off the ground.

Airbus snitches if the engine aren't off idle stops while crossing 1000' and stable.

Jumpseats are open for the controllers. Come out for a ride and see the BS we deal with. You can let us know the BS you have to deal with too.

I have done several but before I started working out here. Plan on doing several more soon. Always learn something new. I think the dialogue is very important. Seems there are a lot of competing goals, taking a lot of creativity and tools out of the hand of both controllers AND pilots.

 

[mike newall]

We run OFDM in our Airbusses.

They have wide gates for most things.

Unstable approaches on the 330 are not classed as serious as on the 320/321 due to inertia etc.

I have never had an issue with OFDM and - yes - I have had a couple of calls. The middleman guy calls, asks you to recount, you tell him how you thought it was.

Then we have a system using Webex - you log onto the Safety Guy's desktop and he shows you the portion of the flight, either as the flightdeck, or from outside, or from behind.

Got cleared for the Beach Departure out of CUN recently and had an overbank exceedance as I turned down the beach....

39? for 4 seconds !

He wasn't concerned that I was doing 325 kts at the end of the beach though

 

[pilotpip]

Exactly what I was going to post.

RJ days could be filled with a 45 degree back on short final 100' off the ground.

Airbus snitches if the engine aren't off idle stops while crossing 1000' and stable.

Jumpseats are open for the controllers. Come out for a ride and see the BS we deal with. You can let us know the BS you have to deal with too.

Embraers can do that too. At least the company I flew for could.

 

[TomVal]

Automation - NTSB Hearing on Asiana SFO Crash

Once you cue up the hearing you can click on a link to fast forward to a topic of interest. You might want to start with "Panel 2". For the OP of this thread, some of your questions might be answered in "Panel 3" of the hearing.

http://ntsb.capitolconnection.org/#

 

[Maxrate]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rYX-Jn6o8

A little lengthly video, sorry. With so much dependence on automation for safety and cost (fuel burns) there really isn't much time for hand flying in a modern commercial airliner these days. Let's face it, the computer can fly the airplane much more cost effectively than a human. The problem comes in when the human is controlling the computer! The lowest level of automation is hand flying with the flight director. Sometimes necessary, but rarely. As an airline pilot we only really get to polish our skills in the sims every 6 months, annually for first officers. That's about to change with AQP at my airline. I believe what the Asiana crew was faced with was a sequence of rapidly deteriorating flight conditions and over dependence on the automation to fix it. The final report will more than likely bear this out.

Oh we'll the best part of the flight is landing the plane. At least we still get to do that for now!


"Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man.... Landing is the first! "

 

[dutchroll]

Every 3 or 4 months in the sim at our major international (non-US) airline, for both Capts and F/Os.

Also we have regular mandatory sim sequences involving hand flying a visual approach with no approach slope guidance, and hand flying an ILS engine-inoperative in IMC on raw approach data. Our guys think nothing of disconnecting and hand flying the last part of the approach in VMC, and indeed tend to do it quite often.

I've read a lot of commentary on the Asiana accident which I would refer to as "excessive generalisation" and have needed to reassure friends of mine that not all airlines neglect training in the basic skill-set department!

Our airline is also pretty good with the QAR tapes and minor exceedences, so long as you self-report. Generally nothing happens other than a "OK, well be more careful next time". If you don't self-report, the phone call is far less pleasant.