Airmen requirements and aircraft requirements are two totally separate rule sets. The original light sport rules confused this since the requirements for both were the same. Mosaic clearly separates the Airmen requirements from the aircraft requirements. Under Mosaic, an aircraft can be manufactured with the LSA certification requirements that a Light Sport Certificated airman cannot fly. The expanded requirements that an aircraft must meet for a Light Sport certificated pilot can fly do put some standard certificate aircraft into those requirements so an LS Certificated pilot can fly them. They share a name, 'Light Sport', but a LS Pilot is limited by the aircraft limits (as certified with no modifications to change performance numbers), not whether it was certified as a Light Sport certified aircraft.
Van's Air Force
The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!
MOSAIC Repairman Certificate classes
- Thread starter IBRNGAS
- Start date
You are confusing Light Sport Aircraft with Sport-Pilot. They are no longer related. There is no such thing as a C172-LSA.
Sport Pilot rules are entirely separate from Light Sport Aircraft.
They do NOT share the name. No such thing as a "Light Sport Pilot". There are Light Sport Aircraft and there are Sport Pilots. They are NOT related, PERIOD!
Then why did you refer to Light Sport certificated airmen? These posts are what creates confusion. PLEASE stop using terms like "light sport pilots"!
THERE IS NO SUCH THING!
Yes -- but there could be a Cessna 172-LSA under MOSAIC, which was at the "heart of my question" that wasn't answered. As more and more aircraft manufactures produce new factory built LSA aircraft (e.g. Sling TSi and Vans Aircraft) under MOSAIC, the old Cessna 172 along with many other "type certified" GA primary trainers will likely face great pressure to either join MOSAIC with their own LSA's or stop producing "type certified" models altogether. Personally, I don't really care because I fly and maintain a Vans RV-9A that I built 21-years ago, and we did that because we didn't like the "type certified world" with its ghastly higher cost to operate and lower efficiently and performance numbers!
Yes, Cessna could build something like a 172 as an LSA. But they would have to design and build it to be in compliance with the as yet undefined industry standards that will apply to factory built LSAs - not the existing FAR part 23 (actually CAR 3 for the 172) requirements that the existing 172 was designed and built to. It would be a different airplane. Not a Cessna 172-LSA.Yes -- but there could be a Cessna 172-LSA under MOSAIC, which was at the "heart of my question" that wasn't answered. As more and more aircraft manufactures produce new factory built LSA aircraft (e.g. Sling TSi and Vans Aircraft) under MOSAIC, the old Cessna 172 along with many other "type certified" GA primary trainers will likely face great pressure to either join MOSAIC with their own LSA's or stop producing "type certified" models altogether. Personally, I don't really care because I fly and maintain a Vans RV-9A that I built 21-years ago, and we did that because we didn't like the "type certified world" with its ghastly higher cost to operate and lower efficiently and performance numbers!
For anyone that is not tracking the new FAA 8610-3 was published and FSDOs should now be able to process LSR-I/M certificates!
Search “light sport repairman” in the form search bar.
http://www.faa.gov/forms
Search “light sport repairman” in the form search bar.
http://www.faa.gov/forms
Well -- the Cessna 162 Skycatcher LSA is very close to the original Cessna 150, including it being an all metal, strutted high-wing, Continental O-200 powered, two-bladed metal prop, two seat trainer design. The only real differences is in the castering nose wheel, control "stoke" or "hybrid stick-yoke and modern avionics, but the newer Cessna 172's also feature modern avionics. There are several Cessna 162's at KPAE used as trainers right now, and they can really take the punishment just like the original 150 and 152. So, I don't really understand why they would need to be so different?? And yes -- I know they are no longer in production.
I thought the point of mosaic was to use ASME standards instead of FAA standards. What did I miss? Are those standards not already defined?
Did your email address operating limitations?
TParker
Well Known Member
ASTM standards. And no, they're not defined yet, for basically two reasons:
- MOSIAC creates Part 22 which formally defines the requirements for these aircraft and the standards need to address these requirements. These Part 22 requirements are not necessarily the same as for previous LSA aircraft
- MOSIAC allows LSA aircraft do to more, and be more, than they could before, so the standards need to address those changes in order for the aircraft to take advantage of them
We aren't starting from scratch, we're building on the existing standards for LSA aircraft. But it's still a lot of work, requiring effort from a lot of people.
Thanks for the clarification!
There’s never been any such thing as a Light Sport Pilot and soon there will be no such thing as a “Light Sport Aircraft” either. The new 22.100 defines “Light Spot Category Aircraft” and once the rest of MOSAIC takes effect next year, the definition of “LSA” will be struck from FAR 1.1.
And good riddance, because the old “LSA”
concept was used to define both sport pilot privileges and airworthiness eligibility, which is where a lot of the confusion came from.
Last edited:
mike_tailwind
Member
This is really no different than before. With Sport Pilot 1.0 you could fly a type certified J-3 cub with a driver's license medical. Mosaic just opens up the range of type certified aircraft that can now be flow with the driver's license as a medical.
Exactly, and just for clarity—although this wasn’t relevant to your point and you know it already
—it also opens up a number of EAB aircraft to sport pilots as well.They are sort-of-kind-of already defined. Both the original LSA rule and MOSAIC authorize the FAA to recognize standards published by their choice of industry association, and the industry association that makes relevant standards is ASTM’s F37 Committee. The actual spec is ASTM F2245, and here’s where the FAA approves it: https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2022-07/AcceptedStandards.pdf
But the current F2245 is a better match for the constraints of the old LSA rule than the new MOSAIC limits. And it has some weird limitations. For example, the “no LSAs in actual IMC” rule doesn’t come from the FARs, it comes from ASTM F2245, which just says “no IMC” instead of defining what would be necessary to allow flight in IMC. The Committee is working on fixing that.
So MOSAIC gave a one-year window before Part 22 comes into effect to allow ASTM time to update their standard to better match what MOSAIC now allows. That’s what is being written now.
thamks for that detail!
Just getting around to reading this lengthy thread, with some interest in the classes.
I built a 9A, have the repairman certificate for it, and I'm building a 10 now. I understand the recently-resolved certificate issue for LSRI/LSRM class graduates, and the pending op-lims renewal requirements, that all makes sense. Is there any type of database or list showing who/where offers the full 2-week LSRM course? I'm actually pretty interested in doing that. I'm seeing Rainbow as a current spot but no others in my exercise of "google-fu".
I also share some others alarm at what a weekend class allows non-builder owners to do. I feel like the 6-hour grilling experience I received at the Lubbock FSDO in 2016 for my repairman cert covered a lot more ground than what I have heard described for the current 16-hour weekend course.
I built a 9A, have the repairman certificate for it, and I'm building a 10 now. I understand the recently-resolved certificate issue for LSRI/LSRM class graduates, and the pending op-lims renewal requirements, that all makes sense. Is there any type of database or list showing who/where offers the full 2-week LSRM course? I'm actually pretty interested in doing that. I'm seeing Rainbow as a current spot but no others in my exercise of "google-fu".
I also share some others alarm at what a weekend class allows non-builder owners to do. I feel like the 6-hour grilling experience I received at the Lubbock FSDO in 2016 for my repairman cert covered a lot more ground than what I have heard described for the current 16-hour weekend course.
There are 2 schools in California. Joby Aviation and Hangar 777.
Only schools approved by the FAA are allowed to do these courses. The FAA has a list online.
Just got my temporary repairman cert. at the local FISDO yesterday. The FAA guy helping me said I won't be able to update my operating limitations till July. I asked "can't we just amend them? we just need to change a few words." He said they have to wait for the instructions from the FAA with the proper wording. How long does it take to change a few words? Anyways, I'm legal to sign off my condition inspection but not legal to sign off my condition inspection. I will have to get my AP to do it again.
I can’t even.
Once this misbegotten train left the station, it was always likely to be a long ride.
Will I be able to put the necessary language in new op lims for a newly completed airplane? Or, is that still up in the air too?
The language will be included in new Op Lims. The new 8130.2L has not yet been published. When it is, you will be able to apply for amended Op Lims.
This is the first I'm hearing of this. Is this true? I can write pending in my log book and go fly? Doesn't seem right. Anyone have a comment on this? Mel?
The problem is not the repairman certificate. It's the fact that current Op Lims don't allow the new rule. You will need to wait until you can amend your Op Lims.
Yeah, That's how I understood it and is what the FAA told me. I was just wondering where "Aviator" got his information. I guess he was talking about my Certificate. And yes, I knew about that. Like I mentioned, I'm now authorized to sign of my condition inspection but not legal till I get the Op lims changed. It's a bummer because they said they won't be ready until July. My inspection is in June. I can't imagine the backlog they are going to have by then to get all these changed. So many will be in my position.
I don't know where the July date for the Op Lims came from. It's my understanding that the new order is ready for publication and should be published shortly. Of course, that's "shortly" in FAA terms!
The July date is relevant to the new LSA parameters.
I got an email today from Joby Aviation that they just opened up more LSRM classes throughout 2026. https://jobyacademy.com/maintenance-training
My wife and I just signed up for the July - September course. If anyone else is planning on joining this one, let us know!
My wife and I just signed up for the July - September course. If anyone else is planning on joining this one, let us know!
Love the split on-line learning followed by on-site practical work.
I wouldn't mind something like Hanger777/Rainbow's two week in-person class, but being able to do just a week in-person and the rest online helps with scheduling time off from work and away from home.
The timing will be perfect for us to because we'll have the class finished about 1-2 months before installing the 912 on our RV-12 build, so it will be useful to understand the systems we're installing better!
Jerry Fischer
Well Known Member
Perhaps they could offer a course during Air Venture if interest is there...
walkman
Well Known Member
wrt updated Ops Lims. I want to get my AWC and the Ops Lims which are a part of that AWC re-issued to include the language which allows me (once my cert is issued) to sign off my CI under 65.107.
Do I do this as a replacement (recurrent) certificate using SLASH?
I also want to change my Phase I area as I'm based at a different airport since my last issuance in 2014.
Do I do this as a replacement (recurrent) certificate using SLASH?
I also want to change my Phase I area as I'm based at a different airport since my last issuance in 2014.
You do this as an AMENDED certificate, and write a Program Letter in plain text asking for what you want in regards to a Phase 1 test area and updating for the LSRI. You’ll get the new Test area and Ops Lim 18 that allows LSRI inspections as well.
walkman
Well Known Member
Am I checking " Current Airworthiness Certificate to Retain" and if so what goes in the text box?
It’s a good class. I just completed it in January. You will tear down and reassemble a Rotax 912 engine to the maintenance level. You do a complete annual inspection on a Vans RV-12. And you’ll do some very basic stuff with brakes, fuel lines, electrical, corrosion, repair, etc. A little bit of sheet metal repair and pop riveting.
Left column, amended, yes retain. For a non LSA I was told Certification type is Special certificate, Category Experimental and then drop down of Amateur-Built, free text used was amend per 61.107 and 8130.2L. Center column you will select recurrent.
Still in process, just trying to help, throw darts at any errors!
Attachments
Does "retain" mean the original pink AW certificate remains valid?
All that I've read on this is that the AW & Ops Limits are now contained in one new document.
FORANE
Well Known Member
I believe the amended AW cert supersedes the original pink one. I was advised to destroy the original when I received the new one. Yes, it is correct that AW & Ops Limits are now contained in one new document
This is the process I used. It worked.
I submitted after hours on 2/25/26 and had the amended certificate and op limits in my inbox at 8:00 AM on 3/5/2026. About 3 business days once the application was submitted.
The hardest part by far was simply understanding the terminology on the AWC site and the form.
A couple notes:
- The applicant is responsible for AD compliance. Look up the current AD Biweekly number and enter it (see item 5 in the guide).
- I had a quick call with the FSDO after they issued to review the final documents.
- If you’re doing this, take the opportunity to update your Phase I test area. Much easier to do it now.
That’s it.
It moved quickly once submitted.
I did the three week on site course at Blue Ridge Community College a decade ago. Too bad they don’t offer it anymore.
GalinHdz
Well Known Member
I AM CONFUSED!! Has anything changed that prevents a current EAB owner (Not the builder) to keep doing maintenance and changes, that do not affect the airworthiness certificate, without doing some kind of official "repairman" course? Example; replace "steam gauges" with "EFIS" gauges. 
I AM CONFUSED!! Has anything changed that prevents a current EAB owner (Not the builder) to keep doing maintenance and changes, that do not affect the airworthiness certificate, without doing some kind of official "repairman" course? Example; replace "steam gauges" with "EFIS" gauges.
