Looking at starting an RV-14A, lots of questions...

[av8raaron]

Hey all, after lots of looking, debating, and a visit to the Van's factory I'm seriously thinking about starting an RV-14A. I've been in and out of general aviation over the years. The vary large majority of my flying over the past few decades has been military and airlines, though I had an old V-tail Bonanza for a few years. The RV-14A fits a lot of things I'm looking for (don't need more than 2 seats, has good higher altitude performance since I live at higher altitude, tricycle gear, etc.), and with the quickbuild option the relatively low build time makes it appealing. For those who have started/finished their own RVs, I was hoping to get your thoughts on a whole lot of questions I've got:

- For building space, up until the wing join, is a single stall in a normal sized garage sufficient to build in?
- Would you recommend getting all of the tools together ahead of time or as needed in the build? I'm assuming the basics (drill bits, countersinks, standard shop tools, etc.) are things that can come from the local Harbor Freight if I don't already have them on hand, but there's going to be a decent amount that comes from places like Aircraft Spruce or similar.
- Realistically, how much of a learning curve is there for a new builder? I've got decades and thousands of hours in aviation and consider myself reasonably mechanically inclined, but I don't think I've ever shot a rivet before or done much in the way of metalwork to begin with.
- Do the build hours you've experienced more or less line up with what Van's advertises on their site? I realize that an RV - or any homebuilt - is committing to a years-long project and one of my bigger fears about starting one is the possibility that I'll wind up five years down the road with a garage full of aluminum aircraft parts that will never commit lift.
- For those who've completed their builds, be them RV-14s or other aircraft, how "safe" do you feel operating them. That's not meant at all to be a condescending question - like I mentioned, I don't have any practical experience in a project like this, so I do have some concern about getting something not quite right.
- Roughly how many build hours would you say are involved in the tail kit alone before being ready for the next parts of the aircraft?
- Anything you wished you'd known or thought of before starting a kit?

Thanks for taking a look at my (probably ignorant) questions. Like I said, I haven't hit "submit order" yet, but I find myself spending more and more time looking at RVs and dreaming.

 

[lipper03]

Welcome!

As a current 14A builder I can give you my thoughts.

I did most of the build in a single car and now in one side of a double car as well.

I’d get a kit, mine is from Cleveland and over time I’ve got way more. But I’m a if the tool can make it easier, I get it type of person.

I took eaa sportair workshops over a few years to get some hands on, but a few practice kits and eaa home builders videos can get you covered. Then if you have some builders in your area, to ask questions and come over even better. This form as well of course.

I’ve seen build hours very by quite a lot. From like 1000 to thousands. I think average is more in the 1200-2000 range.

I feel very confident because I control the build. I can say I was just at airventure looking at a specific spot on many builds, and found a wide range of quality in my opinion. Most were acceptable, but some I wouldn’t have accepted.

Tail kit hours can very, but it’s in the hundreds, my builder log has hours for each section.

The wiki is very handy, as a single place with plans tips and tricks.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Feel free to message me, happy to answer questions and help in anyway I can!

 

[Mike S]

Aaron, welcome aboard the good ship VAF

 

[bertschb]

- For building space, up until the wing join, is a single stall in a normal sized garage sufficient to build in?

"Sufficient"? Yes, it can and has been done. There is no way I would try it but it's been done successfully.

- Would you recommend getting all of the tools together ahead of time or as needed in the build? I'm assuming the basics (drill bits, countersinks, standard shop tools, etc.) are things that can come from the local Harbor Freight if I don't already have them on hand, but there's going to be a decent amount that comes from places like Aircraft Spruce or similar.

Yes. I would recommend a specialty tool kit from a place like Cleaveland Tool to start with. I ended up adding a LOT of additional tools as the build progressed but the "starter kit" from Cleaveland is a good starting point for the basics and the tools are high quality. You can source things like grinders, belt sanders, etc from Harbor Freight.

- Realistically, how much of a learning curve is there for a new builder? I've got decades and thousands of hours in aviation and consider myself reasonably mechanically inclined, but I don't think I've ever shot a rivet before or done much in the way of metalwork to begin with.

I found the metalworking easy. Riveting takes a little while to get good at but it's no big deal. The two keys for me were learning which pressure to use and figuring out the right rivet set to use. Everybody has their own preference for rivet sets. I tried three or four before I found one that produced good, repeatable results for me.

- Do the build hours you've experienced more or less line up with what Van's advertises on their site? I realize that an RV - or any homebuilt - is committing to a years-long project and one of my bigger fears about starting one is the possibility that I'll wind up five years down the road with a garage full of aluminum aircraft parts that will never commit lift.

I think I've almost doubled Vans estimate but then I started with zero skills and no experience with anything. Plus I'm OCD. I think many of the folks on this forum would find the estimates sorta reasonable. I finished all the kits except the engine/FWF and it took me 18 months working basically every day. Still waiting on my engine....

- Roughly how many build hours would you say are involved in the tail kit alone before being ready for the next parts of the aircraft?

I spent almost 500 on the empennage. I suspect others could do it in half that time. I know I could if I built another one.

- Anything you wished you'd known or thought of before starting a kit?

I wish I had known it would take almost (and maybe more than) 4 YEARS to get my engine. Of course, had I known that when I first thought about building, I wouldn't have started.

There are some incredibly brilliant people on this forum that can help with just about anything related to building, flying and maintaining an RV.

 

[wirejock]

Aaron. Welcome. I've helped several builders in the area. Two 14s, one 8 and a handful of kids with tool boxes. Both 14s were finished before my 7A. It's a better kit. If you get up to Estes or are interested in a road trip, I am happy to share my meager knowledge and pound rivets. A veteran really helps pick it up faster.

I recommend a starter kit. There's quite a few choices. DRDT or C-frame. 2X or 3X. Pneumatic or Manual squeezer. It helps to spend time with a Mentor and learn before making the choices.

Countersinks are a different angle. You want them from an aviation tool supplier. HF tools are ok, but I would go for a little higher quality for a drill press and band saw.

Time is different but the 14 is a good kit.

One car space is adequate till you have a full fuselage and start canopy and cowl. Extra space is nice. That said, I've heard of RV10 built in a Conex.

I feel totally safe. The only time I was unsure, was first flight. Once I blew a few hours wide open, I was confident in the airplane. First flight, you don't really know what to expect. I do feel RVs are a totally different breed. They fly and land so easy. Nothing like flying a Cessna semi truck.

 

[Bavafa]

The most critical and necessary thing to have in building a kit plane is patience, everything else can be learned and acquired. But the satisfaction of having built it and then fly it matches the amount of sweat put in it.

 

[MED]

Hey all, after lots of looking, debating, and a visit to the Van's factory I'm seriously thinking about starting an RV-14A. I've been in and out of general aviation over the years. The vary large majority of my flying over the past few decades has been military and airlines, though I had an old V-tail Bonanza for a few years. The RV-14A fits a lot of things I'm looking for (don't need more than 2 seats, has good higher altitude performance since I live at higher altitude, tricycle gear, etc.), and with the quickbuild option the relatively low build time makes it appealing. For those who have started/finished their own RVs, I was hoping to get your thoughts on a whole lot of questions I've got:

- For building space, up until the wing join, is a single stall in a normal sized garage sufficient to build in?
- Would you recommend getting all of the tools together ahead of time or as needed in the build? I'm assuming the basics (drill bits, countersinks, standard shop tools, etc.) are things that can come from the local Harbor Freight if I don't already have them on hand, but there's going to be a decent amount that comes from places like Aircraft Spruce or similar.
- Realistically, how much of a learning curve is there for a new builder? I've got decades and thousands of hours in aviation and consider myself reasonably mechanically inclined, but I don't think I've ever shot a rivet before or done much in the way of metalwork to begin with.
- Do the build hours you've experienced more or less line up with what Van's advertises on their site? I realize that an RV - or any homebuilt - is committing to a years-long project and one of my bigger fears about starting one is the possibility that I'll wind up five years down the road with a garage full of aluminum aircraft parts that will never commit lift.
- For those who've completed their builds, be them RV-14s or other aircraft, how "safe" do you feel operating them. That's not meant at all to be a condescending question - like I mentioned, I don't have any practical experience in a project like this, so I do have some concern about getting something not quite right.
- Roughly how many build hours would you say are involved in the tail kit alone before being ready for the next parts of the aircraft?
- Anything you wished you'd known or thought of before starting a kit?

Thanks for taking a look at my (probably ignorant) questions. Like I said, I haven't hit "submit order" yet, but I find myself spending more and more time looking at RVs and dreaming.

You need to determine for yourself if you have the patience and desire to complete a very big project, like years of your time. I built a wooden kayak from plans as a test of my endurance. Not that it was a similar scope, but it involved learning new skills and forging through occasional frustration with plans, time, and the fretting that comes with uncertainty about the next step. I worked on my RV-14A every day, 4 - 6 hours a day for 3 years. I learned I really enjoyed the building process and would build again if hangar space was not an issue in my area. I was fortunate to already own an airplane, too, so I was not just building to get an airplane. As you have likely heard, if you want an airplane, buy one. If you want a big project that will become the focus of all of your “free time” for a few years and you are pretty sure you will really enjoy the process, build an airplane. It will become one of your biggest accomplishments. And, by-the-way, the RV-14A is a wonderful airplane and I enjoy flying it as much as I enjoyed building it. Good luck.

 

[BravoAlphaRomeo]

Not sure if cost is a consideration for you. All I can say is whatever you think it will cost for the airplane itself and all the tools you can pretty much add 50% to it. A lot of the tools are resellable so in essence you are renting them. I’m just pointing this out because I think probably a lot of people underestimate the amount of money they’re gonna shell out for this endeavor.

 

[Dean32]

I am a new builder working on a 14A empennage now. If you can find someone selling a tool kit on here that would be a good way to start. I bought one from a local guy selling and have added as I have gone along. One thing I highly recommend is the Synergy Air fundamentals class. I took my wife because I wanted to see if I could do it and I wanted her to know what I was getting into. We both really enjoyed the class and both readily picked up on the skills taught. When I got back I ordered a few different practice kits and built those. I also went to HD and got some sheets of aluminum, cut into squares, match drilled, dimpled some, and practiced a couple hundred rivets of different types and techniques.

 

[Mark Dickens]

I would look for a good kit on the resale market, or buy a completed plane before I'd order anything from Vans. Many people make the unconscious assumption that they can order a kit and it will arrive in a reasonable time frame. For many of us, that hasn't been true due to Vans bankruptcy, laser cut parts fiasco, etc, not to mention the amount of time it takes to get an engine from Lycoming. You will commit a large sum of money in deposits and even final payments (engine) and not get anything for a long time, while Vans and Lycoming make interest income off of your payments...it could take a lot longer time than you can fathom and in that time, life goes on with all of its ups and downs. Good luck!

 

[HAL Pilot]

The biggest skill I wish I had developed was removing rivets and then working on the slightly larger holes. Buy the practice kit that looks like a price of aileron. Build it. Take all the rivets out. Build it again. 1 car garage is OK if you can store the built prices somewhere else. Ceiling, walls, etc but some other room would help.

 

[esco]

I would look for a good kit on the resale market, or buy a completed plane before I'd order anything from Vans

Good advice in all the comments above, to which I'd add:
First, go to EAA Sportair workshops, especially Sheet Metal Basics, so you learn what tools you need and how to use them, see what "right" looks like, and build some assemblies.
Next, visit your local EAA chapter, make some contacts, maybe find an unadvertised kit/plane (tools, hangar space, opportunities to shadow a builder...)
Then, start looking at kits or flying planes.
Finally, if you do want to build, consider buying a kit with an engine, to avoid long delays of unknown duration.