Going to see & fly a 9A to buy

[Joe2.0]

Hello,

I’ve recently found this forum and wanted to ask advice. I served 27 years in the Navy driving ships. A friend (F/A-18 pilot) told me to get my pilots license and I did in 2005 accumulating just over 100 hrs. I then got married and had 2 kids, so free money or time was limited.

I always read about VANS A/C but lived overseas and couldn’t get there. My son has asked to get his pilots license and I have a CFI local friend ready to teach him and his sister.

I’m looking at a 2004 RV-9A tomorrow morning 500 hrs since new. We’ll fly it and I’ll decide to move forward. I have a future plan to build a RV-8, but future.

My questions to the forum. What are things to look at? What are things to do flying? Obviously, I’ll look at the logs, annuals, maintenance accomplished. The A/C had an annual a week ago.

I have discussed with two CFI friends, but I’m curious any thoughts the forum has for me. My intention (if buying is the path) is to pursue about a 5 week escrow process (or shorter, but I can’t pick up the plane until 5 weeks. I’d the take it cross country about 1800 nm.

Thank you all for reading and giving me more to think about!!

Cheers
Joe 2.0
Back and Better than before!!!

A couple pictures from my ship - first Captain

 

[Redbud40]

500 hours in 22 years. That’s about 23 hours flown per year. What’s the history last 5 years. Best advice take someone that owns an RV or past owner with you.

 

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

The real gotchas are not likely to be found in logs and in flight. There are all kinds of mechanical things that won't show up, even in an annual. An annual will say that the plane is good for another year, but won't necessarily find things that are sub-standard. Philosophically, you're buying the skills and reputation of the builder as much as you're buying the plane. Your best plan is to look at a half dozen RVs, and get a feel for homebuilts. Second best is to take an objective evaluator with you, preferable an uninvolved third party. And plan for at least one major surprise -- happens with all airplanes, not just homebuilts.

Good luck!

 

[ve0kog]

Joe
Get Vic Syracuse pre-buy book. There is a downloadable version (possible EAA discount) and you can start reading it before tomorrow. It helped me. I was a total noob (still is). Also don't be afraid to walk away..

 

[MacCool]

The 9A is a great airplane, but I would (did) work hard to enlist the in-person advice of a knowledgeable RV person to aid you in your search, and if/when you find an airplane, get it vetted by some one who can do a thorough pre-buy inspection. An RV-9A of that vintage is often going to have something of a "legacy" equipment list and may have a variety of niggling maintenance issues. I agree with above...Vic Syracuse's pre-buy book would be a valuable investment

 

[cajunwings]

Thank you for your service! Get a pre buy done by some one who knows the common build errors and wear points on RVs. Paperwork can have issues that need fixing. Lycoming cams can be prone to rust when then don’t run much ect ect. I’ve done a bunch of pre buys on certified aircraft and a few on experimentals and have seen build quality from very good to atrocious. Buyer beware.

Don Broussard A&P, I/A, ATP
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer

 

[wirejock]

Thank you for your service.
As others mention, 500hrs in 22 yrs is a big red flag. Some might say the engine is core value because it's difficult to inspect the inside of a Lycoming.
There's a lot to look at on a Vans RV pre-buy. Find an A&P well versed in Vans RVs or pay someone like Vic to inspect. It's worth every penny.

 

[Treekiwi]

Three years ago I bought a similar aircraft that had sat a lot. I knew I was taking a risk, especially as it had been in a hot humid environment most of its life. Everything was fine for 200 hours, then it needed a complete engine overhaul at the cost of about $45,000. Lots of corrosion internally.
Be sure and cost that risk in. It's real, believe me.
Stephen

 

[HighTail]

This reminds me of FOMO, (Fear Of Missing Out) problem. Try to get a flight history from other sources beside Log Books like Flight Radar 24 or Flight Aware. Do real intense research and due diligence. A lot of aircraft are bought by locals that know the history soon after listing or even before its listed. Slow down and assume this may be a problem child. Buying from such a distance can be tricky and then jumping in the seat and flying 1800NM is kinda risky too. Hire a good well-known inspector from this forum to perform the necessary inspection / Pre-Buy and advise! and then also hire a Vans familiar transporter to deliver with you. Always approach purchasing with wonder: "Why has this not sold yet?" Do a Deep Dive!

 

[Norman CYYJ]

This reminds me of FOMO, (Fear Of Missing Out) problem. Try to get a flight history from other sources beside Log Books like Flight Radar 24 or Flight Aware. Do real intense research and due diligence. A lot of aircraft are bought by locals that know the history soon after listing or even before its listed. Slow down and assume this may be a problem child. Buying from such a distance can be tricky and then jumping in the seat and flying 1800NM is kinda risky too. Hire a good well-known inspector from this forum to perform the necessary inspection / Pre-Buy and advise! and then also hire a Vans familiar transporter to deliver with you. Always approach purchasing with wonder: "Why has this not sold yet?" Do a Deep Dive!

Hire a pre purchase inspector, it is money well worth spending. The plane might be in great shape and nothing wrong with it and you will be thinking I could have saved that money if I had done it myself BUT on the other hand it might save you 10s of thousands of dollars. Pay for a repurchase inpection by someone who is very familiar with RV aircraft!

 

[Joe2.0]

Thank you all for your advice. I truly appreciate it. This is certainly a new step for me. I will buy the Vic Syracuse book.

Does anyone here know a southwestern based VANs mechanic for a good pre buy inspection?

Thank you
Joe 2.0

 

[Jim Frisbie]

Lots of good advice here!
I built and flew a 9A for almost 1000 hrs. It is a great design but still an RV.
That means it is no Cessna or Piper. It is a high performance aircraft.
When you fly it be sure to do slow flight, steep turns and stalls. Watch for any quirkiness or unexpected sounds.
Also trim for cruise and fly f hands-off. Mine would hold heading and alt and even a steady bank in a shallow turn. You can only learn so much from a demo flight but it’s fine to have high expectations.
Having saiid all that, a lot of people have learned to fly in a 9A. It is an enjoyable aircraft. You kids will love it!

 

[MacCool]

One notable problem with the RV-9A, especially one that was completed 22 years ago, is a rather notorious weakness in the design of the nose gear. Ask any of the AI's about historical problems wth the nose gear and you'll get a good overview of the issue. Or search this site. Many owners of -6A's, -7A's, and -9A's in particular have had to address this, including me, on my 2011. It's a problem that might manifest particlularly on rough or grass field operation, or in a student/training environment.

 

[Dugaru]

I’ve had an excellent experience, all things considered, with my used 2007 RV-9A. But that came after pre-buys by a VERY knowledgeable A&P saved me from buying the wrong RV—on two separate occasions! There are some real dogs out there. Be mentally ready to walk.

To the wise words above, I’d add the following based on experience (mine and various friends):

1. If you decide to purchase, spend some time ensuring you get every last piece of paper and every photo associated with the construction of aircraft and its maintenance. Beg the seller to canvas his garage, home office, etc. For example, do the available records include a schematic of the electrical system? A huge plus if so.

2. As noted above, a 22-year-old 500-hour Lycoming is a total question mark. A friend bought a similarly situated 172 and a rebuild was required in short order due to corrosion. It might also go 2000+ more hours. Put as much of this (huge) risk on the seller as possible, price-wise. Assuming a limited budget, if you’re planning a panel upgrade, put that off for a few years until you can be reasonably confident you don’t need an overhaul.

3. Per the advice above, check the nosegear and engine mount out very carefully. The nosegear was never meant for trainer-level abuse.

4. Pay close attention to the fuel tanks. Are there records of repairs, or do they show signs of leakage, having been removed, etc.? Stick a borescope through the hole for the stick and look at the cockpit floor - any staining?Repairing RV tanks can be a royal pain, and half-assed undocumented repairs made in the past can bite. Ask me how I know.

5. Investigate to determine whether the airplane has any orphaned major components. Oddball CS prop setup? Unusual Lycoming? Ancient EFIS? These can be very significant cost drivers going forward.

6. The original airbox/filter setup (filtered air box or FAB) on carbureted models is not a great design. Search here for details, and review the relevant Vans SB. Look for damage to the carb heat flapper door hinge etc., and cracks in the mounting plate.

7. Scope the condition of the hoses carefully. This will tell you a lot about how the aircraft has been maintained.

Good luck!!

 

[skirting_virga]

Three years ago I bought a similar aircraft that had sat a lot. I knew I was taking a risk, especially as it had been in a hot humid environment most of its life. Everything was fine for 200 hours, then it needed a complete engine overhaul at the cost of about $45,000. Lots of corrosion internally.
Be sure and cost that risk in. It's real, believe me.
Stephen

I had the same problem, but with a lot more hours/year (50h x 4 years)

Disused engines are an epidemic in aircraft sales. As I've said before, people are so reluctant to give up flying, or give up their plane - even after they've run out of interest, health, or money - that many planes for sale have sat for years with junk engines waiting to fail. With the going price of Lycoming engines and parts, the sellers will never come to terms with the fact that it's worth half what they think it is. So it will sit even more years until they are desperate. Or someone will unwittingly stumble into a disaster and pay far too much. In the end I paid at least 50% more than the purchase price to get a plane with a good engine.

I'm aware of far more planes that are flown 1-2x a year than 1-2x a week. I fundamentally don't understand it, but I haven't yet run out of interest, health, or money.

 

[HighTail]

One more (sometimes very controversial discussion in the Experimental Atmosphere as to its applicability): But with 27 years of experience in the US Navy, I am sure you have learned a bit about Publications regarding obsolescence. Tip: Always check the most current Lycoming SI 1009 before making a decision, as TBOs can be updated. Also, consider accessory and propeller overhaul schedules, as these may require service before the engine overhaul. It is not just about the Tachometer hours; it is also about the years since new and care given between.

SERVICE INSTRUCTION NO. 1009 BE. Time Between Overhaul (TBO) Schedules​

 

[MacCool]

One more (sometimes very controversial discussion in the Experimental Atmosphere as to its applicability): But with 27 years of experience in the US Navy, I am sure you have learned a bit about Publications regarding obsolescence. Tip: Always check the most current Lycoming SI 1009 before making a decision, as TBOs can be updated. Also, consider accessory and propeller overhaul schedules, as these may require service before the engine overhaul. It is not just about the Tachometer hours; it is also about the years since new and care given between.

SERVICE INSTRUCTION NO. 1009 BE. Time Between Overhaul (TBO) Schedules​

...bearing in mind, of course, that TBO's, Service Bulletins, overhaul schedules etc for E-AB aircraft and their engines are suggestions, not rules. That's not to imply that they should just be ignored...

 

[ve0kog]

Another thing you can try.. register the tail you are considering at eabannual.com. Import VAN's SBs and digitize maintenance logs. On the log page it will build a visual picture of the flight hours and maintenance patterns each year. e.g. see how often the oil was changed, whether there was a condition inspection sign off at regular intervals etc.