Would it be unwise to do something like this? I’ve got Tailwheel time, without landings however. Insurance will require me to fly with a CFI for 10 hours prior to solo flight so I was wondering if I could knock out two birds with one stone. Otherwise training would be in a cub, champ, etc
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Getting my tailwheel endorsement in an RV8
- Thread starter TheNewGuy
- Start date
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Get it in your RV-8 !! In those 10 hours you'll learn more about your own plane plus you'll get the taildragger endorsement.
I got so many scary remarks back in the day before I bought my RV-8. The only taildragger I can remember having any significant time in was a Citabria decades earlier, and had been flying helicopters for many years, not even airplanes. I bought it and it was so easy !! Don't let anyone tell you it's hard, it's just another taildragger. just lands a little faster than a Citabria.
I got so many scary remarks back in the day before I bought my RV-8. The only taildragger I can remember having any significant time in was a Citabria decades earlier, and had been flying helicopters for many years, not even airplanes. I bought it and it was so easy !! Don't let anyone tell you it's hard, it's just another taildragger. just lands a little faster than a Citabria.
It depends on your experience. If you damage your RV before the completion of 10 hours, then the insurance won't cover it. The CFI must sign off your TW endorsement which include doing 3-point landing. RV8 is not forgiving in learning this landing technique with its stiff landing gear.
That's what I was worried about. Thank for the reply
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
I’m not an instructor but I got a buddy up to speed for a signoff in my RV-8. He was fairly low time PP with zero TW time before that. I did 25 hours with him and I was in the back seat with no brakes the whole time. There were a few tense moments in that time, but eventually it just “clicked” for him and he knocked it out of the park for the instructor signoff.
As for the 3 point “issue” with the -8…. I used to buy into that OWT too, and then I just started doing them all of the sudden. The airplane does not know it can’t 3 point, but the pilot can be convinced. The pilot is the issue.
As for the 3 point “issue” with the -8…. I used to buy into that OWT too, and then I just started doing them all of the sudden. The airplane does not know it can’t 3 point, but the pilot can be convinced. The pilot is the issue.
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This gets pretty murky. On the one hand, It's going to be tough to find transition training where they're able to both provide the plane and be able to do the endorsement. That's because for an EAB you need an exemption from the feds to allow you to rent it out and those LODA's typically limit you to transition training only, no endorsements, BFR's etc.
If you own the plane, you can hire an instructor to give you whatever type of instruction you need. But as you point out, then you may run into an insurance problem.
It might be worth it to check with the insurance company to see if there's a work around where the instructor becomes a named pilot and is covered during your transition training even if you're not. I did that with my buddy's Glastar to check his daughter out. It was his plane, so no LODA needed, They added me as a named pilot, and I gave his kid the dual required to the get her added as a named insured.
If you own the plane, you can hire an instructor to give you whatever type of instruction you need. But as you point out, then you may run into an insurance problem.
It might be worth it to check with the insurance company to see if there's a work around where the instructor becomes a named pilot and is covered during your transition training even if you're not. I did that with my buddy's Glastar to check his daughter out. It was his plane, so no LODA needed, They added me as a named pilot, and I gave his kid the dual required to the get her added as a named insured.
I don't see any mention of dual controls as in rudder controls?
Dual controls would be required for you to become proficient in any taildragger, brakes may be optional.
I am not sure what kind of instructor would climb into the back seat of an 8 and teach you how to fly a taildragger?
Simply flying around to kill 10 hours doesn't really cut it?
It's the landings and take offs that present the challenge in a taildragger.
I have flown a dozen different taildragger and I agree, the 8 is not particularly difficult to master.
Dual controls would be required for you to become proficient in any taildragger, brakes may be optional.
I am not sure what kind of instructor would climb into the back seat of an 8 and teach you how to fly a taildragger?
Simply flying around to kill 10 hours doesn't really cut it?
It's the landings and take offs that present the challenge in a taildragger.
I have flown a dozen different taildragger and I agree, the 8 is not particularly difficult to master.
The RV-8 is an honest airplane but it will bend much easier than a trainer. You want to make all the mistakes you can think of in a tailwheel airplane that is robust enough to take a beating from a new tailwheel pilot.
Find a good tailwheel CFI and get proficient in x-wind, 1, 2 and 3-point landings. Get ready for different landing characteristics as the CG moves aft. You can then transition to your 8 in a few hours.
Find a good tailwheel CFI and get proficient in x-wind, 1, 2 and 3-point landings. Get ready for different landing characteristics as the CG moves aft. You can then transition to your 8 in a few hours.
Interesting… so that’s pretty much zero tailwheel time. You’d be starting from scratch.
RV8Squaz
Well Known Member
I totally agree with Mike. RV’s are well engineered and strong enough to do what they were designed to do. However, I don’t consider them robust enough to handle potential mishandling.
The rear seat rudder pedals are marginal at best for ground operations. Most 8’s don’t have rear brakes for the instructor. I’m a long time civilian and former USAF instructor and I wouldn’t want to train someone in your situation. There’s really very little an instructor in the rear seat can do to save a botched landing and impending ground loop. I’ve even heard of a case where someone bent the rear seat rudder pedals.
I have felt comfortable enough to check out pilots in their RV’s. But the ones I’ve checked out already had significant tailwheel time in other aircraft.
I recommend getting your tailwheel endorsement in a Champ, Cub, Citabria, C-150 taildragger conversion or a C-170/180.
RV8Squaz
Well Known Member
Perfect.
I guess I forgot to mention, for newbie tailwheel pilots, Bruce tossed you in his J3 until you got the hang of it, then into the 8.
For me, the first day was in the J3, then the 8 for the next couple. The Pitts was optional...
Sounds like you have similar plan. Should be fine (except Bruce instructed from the back of his dual control (with brakes) 8)
For me, the first day was in the J3, then the 8 for the next couple. The Pitts was optional...
Sounds like you have similar plan. Should be fine (except Bruce instructed from the back of his dual control (with brakes) 8)
Norman CYYJ
Well Known Member
Yes and the advantage to having helicopter time is that you know how to use your feet. Vans tailwheel aircraft are one of the most docile planes you will ever fly.
I definitely do wheelie landings most of the time , especially on windy days. But my TW CFI will not sign off the endorsement unless I can do 3point landing on the super decathlon. The Super Decathlon I trained on is more tolerant to hard landings compared to the RV8
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pjc
Well Known Member
“Keep it straight!”
Everyone has already covered the high points, I was in your shoes last summer. I ended up brushing up my tailwheel skills with a CFI in a Citabria, did about 20 landings, then just got in the 8 and kind of went for it. As others have said, it's a pretty honest airplane. The good news is, if you start bouncing, the go-around is underway as soon as you crack the throttle. The airplane is so light that it is almost never done flying, until it's in the hangar.
I've recently been carrying a full size passenger in the rear and I'm learning to land all over again. The fun never stops!
I've recently been carrying a full size passenger in the rear and I'm learning to land all over again. The fun never stops!
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
90% of my landings in the RV-8 were 3 point landings because I was able to stop it halfway down the runway and turn off before the hangars. If I wheel landed, I had to wait until the tail came down and it usually meant a little longer down the runway. Of course it just could have been my technique what made it do that, who knows.
Get your training in a “real” tailwheel airplane 
ie antique.
Champ, J3, etc…. You will learn way more than just landings.
These airplanes force you to use your rudder in the air. If you try to turn without coordination, ya, eventually they will turn, but not very well. You also learn power management. The 8 is very forgiving in this arena.
The 8 doesn’t “require” the same airmanship. Which is good, and bad….
There was much debate about chains and links for the new pilot in the 8. More than one newly signed off pilot ground looped due to not having the skill to handle the extra sensitive tailwheel.
It used to be standard practice to start with loose chains then put the link back on. However, this may not hold true with the better links available today.
Also, everybody is different. I almost ran my L3 off the 100’ wide runway, and ground looped once, with no damage, before I finally got it. That said, the Bucker is a handful to land. Then I met the new guy at a Bucker event, low time, asked how he did his transitions training. “I don’t know, I just jumped in and started flying it”.
So, there ya go…..
ie antique. Champ, J3, etc…. You will learn way more than just landings.
These airplanes force you to use your rudder in the air. If you try to turn without coordination, ya, eventually they will turn, but not very well. You also learn power management. The 8 is very forgiving in this arena.
The 8 doesn’t “require” the same airmanship. Which is good, and bad….
There was much debate about chains and links for the new pilot in the 8. More than one newly signed off pilot ground looped due to not having the skill to handle the extra sensitive tailwheel.
It used to be standard practice to start with loose chains then put the link back on. However, this may not hold true with the better links available today.
Also, everybody is different. I almost ran my L3 off the 100’ wide runway, and ground looped once, with no damage, before I finally got it. That said, the Bucker is a handful to land. Then I met the new guy at a Bucker event, low time, asked how he did his transitions training. “I don’t know, I just jumped in and started flying it”.
So, there ya go…..
Couple notes.
Given the number of groundlooped Cubs and Champs and such, I don't think we have any business telling anyone mastering an -8 is a cakewalk. For some it will be, and for some it won't.
The -8 is a relatively friendly taildragger...unless you get one with poor wheel alignment. The different can be night and day. Check and shim for zero toe, in or out, with the tail down.
The gear is very, very sturdy in the context of dropping in. It is not sturdy in any sort of groundloop which shoves a wheel inboard. That bends the fuselage.
It is possible to install good rear pedals and brakes. Bruce had them in his transition trainer. I built a revised set for a customer, and there are two more kits currently being installed.
Given the number of groundlooped Cubs and Champs and such, I don't think we have any business telling anyone mastering an -8 is a cakewalk. For some it will be, and for some it won't.
The -8 is a relatively friendly taildragger...unless you get one with poor wheel alignment. The different can be night and day. Check and shim for zero toe, in or out, with the tail down.
The gear is very, very sturdy in the context of dropping in. It is not sturdy in any sort of groundloop which shoves a wheel inboard. That bends the fuselage.
It is possible to install good rear pedals and brakes. Bruce had them in his transition trainer. I built a revised set for a customer, and there are two more kits currently being installed.
