FlyEFII Questions

[kirkbauer]

I keep going back and forth on whether to use FlyEFII in my -10 build. I have read through all of the discussions here on VAF and, like many things in aviation, there is not a clear right answer. I'm not trying to start a new debate here, but am trying to collect information from others who use FlyEFII to help with my decision. Can anybody help me answer any of these questions?

1) I understand that the full System32 kit controls both the fuel injection and ignition, but is not a full FADEC, in that you still need to use a prop control. Correct?
2) What does the "Fuel Trim" knob on the panel do? I don't really understand when you'd adjust that, nor what it does.
3) In my current -10, with a hot engine and/or on hot days (no cowl flaps), I need to keep my speed up during climbing and I need to keep the fuel rich to control cylinder heat temps on climbout. It doesn't see that this system is aware of the cylinder temps. Does it keep the engine cooler at the same power level than the traditional mags? Will it make the heat issue better or worse?
4) I see that there is a magnet that needs to be installed in the flywheel and it seems that they do that for you. Do you have to send them the flywheel and they send it back?
5) I'm trying to understand the maintenance differences between this and p-mags. What is the inspection schedule and what does maintenance look like?
6) I'm not an engine guy, but I hope to learn a lot during this process (with or without FlyEFII). Is tuning the engine easier with FlyEFII?
7) I see that FlyEFII supports auto gas -- is this a setting, or does it auto-detect? Can you mix 100LL and auto gas in the same tank?
8) If you buy an engine through Barrett, does that change anything? Can they tune an EFII engine?
9) Is Van's still letting you delete things from the firewall-forward kit? Or am I going to be stuck with a bunch of unneeded parts if I go this route?
10) From a maintenance perspective, what needs to be inspected/maintained at each annual?

 

[tass]

I can only answer some questions, having only the ignition part.

4: Yes, the do the magnet install for you. The flywheel needs to have the large-size pulley (9 3/4" OD). I had to get a new one, and all systems requiring a flywheel mounted magnet that I'm aware of have this same requirement. SDS sells a new flywheel that works and is a good price if you do need a new one - just don't get the SDS magnets installed in it.

5. There's no required inspections for the ignition system, or any retiming requirement like P-Mags. When I have the cowling off I ensure the wiring and injector cables still look good and are connected.

10. Ignition only for me - I check the wiring, that the ECUs are still securely mounted and wired in, coil packs and high tension wires all still mounted properly and look good. I've only been running the system for a few months so haven't had anything pop up as an issue.

 

[rocketman1988]

I keep going back and forth on whether to use FlyEFII in my -10 build. I have read through all of the discussions here on VAF and, like many things in aviation, there is not a clear right answer. I'm not trying to start a new debate here, but am trying to collect information from others who use FlyEFII to help with my decision. Can anybody help me answer any of these questions?

1) I understand that the full System32 kit controls both the fuel injection and ignition, but is not a full FADEC, in that you still need to use a prop control. Correct?
2) What does the "Fuel Trim" knob on the panel do? I don't really understand when you'd adjust that, nor what it does.
3) In my current -10, with a hot engine and/or on hot days (no cowl flaps), I need to keep my speed up during climbing and I need to keep the fuel rich to control cylinder heat temps on climbout. It doesn't see that this system is aware of the cylinder temps. Does it keep the engine cooler at the same power level than the traditional mags? Will it make the heat issue better or worse?
4) I see that there is a magnet that needs to be installed in the flywheel and it seems that they do that for you. Do you have to send them the flywheel and they send it back?
5) I'm trying to understand the maintenance differences between this and p-mags. What is the inspection schedule and what does maintenance look like?
6) I'm not an engine guy, but I hope to learn a lot during this process (with or without FlyEFII). Is tuning the engine easier with FlyEFII?
7) I see that FlyEFII supports auto gas -- is this a setting, or does it auto-detect? Can you mix 100LL and auto gas in the same tank?
8) If you buy an engine through Barrett, does that change anything? Can they tune an EFII engine?
9) Is Van's still letting you delete things from the firewall-forward kit? Or am I going to be stuck with a bunch of unneeded parts if I go this route?
10) From a maintenance perspective, what needs to be inspected/maintained at each annual?

1. correct, you need a prop control.

2. The fuel trim knob allows you to adjust the fuel map globally from +50% to -50%. Some use this to run LOP without changing the entire fuel map.

3. The fuel, MAP, RPM, and ignition maps can be altered and customized for your specific installation. I have had zero issues with heat.

4. EFII will install the magnets.

5. Not much to say about maintenance. There is an occasional ECU firmware update and then you basically check condition of wiring during inspections.

6. Tuning the engine is done on the fly, for the most part. You can make the adjustments while airborne and see the results. Each injector is addressable which makes slight imbalances easy to deal with.

7. The programmability will allow using other fuels. You would need to fly it to see what needed to be changed. Again, all parameters in the maps are changeable.

8. Barrett built my engine and installed the EFII system hardware. You will need to mount and wire the ECUs and controller.

9. Can’t answer this question but you won’t need the mags or engine driven fuel pump. You also won’t need the stock fuel injection system.

10. General wiring and injector condition and ECU firmware updates, if there are any.

I have had the EFII system 32 in my -10 for almost 4 years and it has performed flawlessly. Highly recommended.

 

[Walt]

Be prepared to become an expert on your system because it’s unlikely you’ll find anyone to help you or will work on it.

 

[kirkbauer]

Thank you so much, @rocketman1988 !

 

[rocketman1988]

Be prepared to become an expert on your system because it’s unlikely you’ll find anyone to help you or will work on it.

I have never had any issues getting questions answered.

While Electronic fuel injection and ignition are the future; it’s safe to say it isn’t for everyone.

Thankfully, everyone gets to make their own decisions.

 

[dmattmul]

Be prepared to become an expert on your system because it’s unlikely you’ll find anyone to help you or will work on it.

Although an engineer (Chem E) knew I never would be "an expert". Now have 4 years and flawless 600 hrs. on my EFII system 32. I decided on EFII over SDS only because the install manual seemed easier to understand. Ross at SDS also provides good support. (I have purchased from him several CNC machined accessories and very nice) Robert at EFII provides very good customer support. Good luck, hundreds of very competent builders flying (Like Bob) very willing to help you as needed.

 

[Sam Staton]

I can tell you from personal experience that Robert is a very easy person to work with and can answer any questions you may have. His attitude toward customer service is stellar. I heartily recommend EFII to anyone considering it. YMMV. My first engine start was flawless - no timing issues of any kind to worry about.

 

[DanH]

I keep going back and forth on whether to use FlyEFII in my -10 build. I have read through all of the discussions here on VAF and, like many things in aviation, there is not a clear right answer. I'm not trying to start a new debate here, but am trying to collect information from others who use FlyEFII to help with my decision. Can anybody help me answer any of these questions?

1) I understand that the full System32 kit controls both the fuel injection and ignition, but is not a full FADEC, in that you still need to use a prop control. Correct?
2) What does the "Fuel Trim" knob on the panel do? I don't really understand when you'd adjust that, nor what it does.
3) In my current -10, with a hot engine and/or on hot days (no cowl flaps), I need to keep my speed up during climbing and I need to keep the fuel rich to control cylinder heat temps on climbout. It doesn't see that this system is aware of the cylinder temps. Does it keep the engine cooler at the same power level than the traditional mags? Will it make the heat issue better or worse?
4) I see that there is a magnet that needs to be installed in the flywheel and it seems that they do that for you. Do you have to send them the flywheel and they send it back?
5) I'm trying to understand the maintenance differences between this and p-mags. What is the inspection schedule and what does maintenance look like?
6) I'm not an engine guy, but I hope to learn a lot during this process (with or without FlyEFII). Is tuning the engine easier with FlyEFII?
7) I see that FlyEFII supports auto gas -- is this a setting, or does it auto-detect? Can you mix 100LL and auto gas in the same tank?
8) If you buy an engine through Barrett, does that change anything? Can they tune an EFII engine?
9) Is Van's still letting you delete things from the firewall-forward kit? Or am I going to be stuck with a bunch of unneeded parts if I go this route?
10) From a maintenance perspective, what needs to be inspected/maintained at each annual?

2. Fundamentally, same function as the traditional red mixture knob. Programming sets a base mixture, and the trim knob varies it. The practical difference is the the trim knob can add fuel as well as subtract it, while the traditional setup is full rich at one extent and full lean at the other.

3. Fuel injection type doesn't matter. Deliver fuel at the same rate to the same engine with the same baffles, cowl, etc, and you'll get the same CHTs.

5. Keep the filters clean. Keep the electrical support system in good shape. Nothing like p-mags.

6. Interesting question. Easier than traditional Bendix-type constant flow? No.

A constant flow system is simply bolted on as delivered. The base fuel flow tuning was done on a bench back at the manufacturer's facility. The installer (a) sets idle speed with a screw, (b) sets idle mixture with a thumb wheel, and (c) if desired, swaps restrictor sizes so all nozzles flow the same when leaned for cruise.

An EFI from any source will generally arrive with a base map already programmed, but it's a starting place, a way to get the engine running. You'll make changes as well as selecting various settings to store in the ECU. Many more details are available to the operator, which can be both blessing and curse. The programmed end result can be very good, if the operator knows what he is doing. Don't discount the operator aspect. Although an EFI vendor may claim the system makes fuel management fully automatic and perfect all the time, it's only true for the programmed condition. A skilled operator will select good settings...but a skilled operator likewise had no trouble operating a constant flow.

7. Auto gas provides less detonation margin, so in general you'll need settings with less ignition advance and perhaps a bit richer. A lot depends on cylinder head type, compresison ratio, and CHT.

8. Barrett can install any fuel control, but expect base settings. You'll still have program adjustments to make after installation.

Consider this bit of irony. EFI's are often claimed to be a set and forget solution, but EFI operators generally tinker with settings all the time. Note Bob's "make adjustments on the fly" comment. The ability to tweak is an irrestible dose of catnip. Meanwhile, the Bendix guys go a decade and never touch anything but the red kob in the cockpit.

 

[rocketman1988]

2. Fundamentally, same function as the traditional red mixture knob. Programming sets a base mixture, and the trim knob varies it. The practical difference is the the trim knob can add fuel as well as subtract it, while the traditional setup is full rich at one extent and full lean at the other.

3. Fuel injection type doesn't matter. Deliver fuel at the same rate to the same engine with the same baffles, cowl, etc, and you'll get the same CHTs.

5. Keep the filters clean. Keep the electrical support system in good shape. Nothing like p-mags.

6. Interesting question. Easier than traditional Bendix-type constant flow? No.

A constant flow system is simply bolted on as delivered. The base fuel flow tuning was done on a bench back at the manufacturer's facility. The installer (a) sets idle speed with a screw, (b) sets idle mixture with a thumb wheel, and (c) if desired, swaps restrictor sizes so all nozzles flow the same when leaned for cruise.

An EFI from any source will generally arrive with a base map already programmed, but it's a starting place, a way to get the engine running. You'll make changes as well as selecting various settings to store in the ECU. Many more details are available to the operator, which can be both blessing and curse. The programmed end result can be very good, if the operator knows what he is doing. Don't discount the operator aspect. Although an EFI vendor may claim the system makes fuel management fully automatic and perfect all the time, it's only true for the programmed condition. A skilled operator will select good settings...but a skilled operator likewise had no trouble operating a constant flow.

7. Auto gas provides less detonation margin, so in general you'll need settings with less ignition advance and perhaps a bit richer. A lot depends on cylinder head type, compresison ratio, and CHT.

8. Barrett can install any fuel control, but expect base settings. You'll still have program adjustments to make after installation.

Consider this bit of irony. EFI's are often claimed to be a set and forget solution, but EFI operators generally tinker with settings all the time. Note Bob's "make adjustments on the fly" comment. The ability to tweak is an irrestible dose of catnip. Meanwhile, the Bendix guys go a decade and never touch anything but the red kob in the cockpit.

I set my EFII up in the first few weeks of Phase one; haven't really touched it since. You are correct in the point about people wanting to tinker...that is a choice though.

For those who do want to tinker, EFII gives you a way to make changes and see results in real time.