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First Aircraft Recommendations, RV-8A

L

LukieGoober

I'm New Here
Hello all,

I am in the planning phase of my first aircraft build. I am an aerospace engineer currently in flight training to be a sport pilot. I was thinking long and hard and i think the RV-8A would be a good first aircraft for me to build and fly. I have done some research over the last few weeks, i started reading the Sport Plane Builder book by Tony Bingelis, and have a basic idea of the kinds of avionics i would want. I'm maybe a year or two away from buying the first of parts but i wanted to take the time i have to learn as much as i can to see if this is something i really want to do.
The main rational of choosing the RV-8A is it seems like a good mix of fun weekend flying and cross country performance, but maybe my goals and needs for the project shift as i build hours. Additionally the RV-8A looks really cool, which has got to count for something.

The main questions i have!
1.) Is the RV-8 a good plane for your first build, are the instructions and quick-build kits as good as the more modern Vans line up?

2.) How difficult is it to make custom modifications, such as an unusual/non-standard engine. (i was considering the UL520T instead of the standard Lycoming, id need to lengthen the engine cowling to make it fit, and i imagine a lot of the firewall forward section would need to be different.

3.) How did you learn the skills to complete your project? I want to take time in the next few years planning and getting myself knowledgeable on the process of building the aircraft so there are fewer hick-ups in the process. I'm thinking of things like riveting and assembly to things i don't even know i will need, like tools and workshop safety or things i cant even imagine ill need to know until i start the process.

Thanks very much for your time and i will share my journey as i progress, and hopefully start within a year or so. Any comments or questions i can answer to the best of my ability. And feedback or corrections on any assumptions i made that are wrong are highly appreciated.
 
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1) Many people have built an RV-7 or -8 as their first build, but it is goign to be more of a challeneg than the modern kits. You’ll get little hand-holding from the instructions, and need to understand plans - much different than the newer KAI’s ffor the -12, -14, or -15.
2) Customization? How much background do you have in actual firewall forward installtion? If the answer is none, you’ll have a steep learning curve.
 
I love my RV8, but I didn't build it. Part of me regrets that, but the other 2/3 of me is glad- I spend alot of time flying, still get to work on it as much as I want, take on small projects and mods, etc. It's been a year with this airplane now and I feel I'm just scratching the surface of all the fun I can have with it (including working on it). But I still have the desire to build something. SubSonex seems to be calling to me lately.

You will find that there are amazing resources for Vans aircraft- pick a few RV8 build blogs. Some are incredibly detailed- spending multiple entries and days and days building fixtures for the upcoming build (workbenches, spray booths, wing cradles, etc.) the ideas are endless. And many answers are just a post away, there is a crazy amount of knowledge on here and seems like everyone is eager to help.

Experimental aviation is probably going to be the savior of GA.

Good luck in your project and keep us posted.
 
I started building my RV8 before taking flight lesson. If you are building the RV8A, reconsider your decision and build the RV8 instead. Flying a tailwheel airplane isn't difficult, especially an RV8.
Before building your airplane, try to visit as many builders in your local area as you can. I always picked up a few ideas, got my question answered.
 
What I didn’t see in your post was, ‘I expect to enjoy the build process’. The build time is measured in thousands of hours. If you don’t enjoy the process it will turn to drudgery. For the record, I loved the time (almost 4 years) I spent building.
 
as a first time builder and new pilot I would suggest a. 9A. I built and flew one for years. The kit is not as modern as the 10-15s but it is doable. It is a great xc plane and more nimble than most production planes.
It is also more forgiving with a lower Landing speed than the 7 & 8.
It also can be fitted with the Lockwood mod for a Rotax 916T. I understand that makes it areal performer.
Unless aerobatics is high on your list you might want to consider the 9A.
I suggest you look around and get a chance to fly the different models.
And welcome!
 
BobTurner said:
What I didn’t see in your post was, ‘I expect to enjoy the build process’. The build time is measured in thousands of hours. If you don’t enjoy the process it will turn to drudgery. For the record, I loved the time (almost 4 years) I spent building.
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Yes indeed! I am expecting to very much enjoy the process of building it. I have never built an airplane but I have built other things. I love engineering I love working on complex project which is part of the reason I want to do this.
 
Jim's suggestion is a very good one. Resale of a Lycoming powered 8 or 8A is excellent, while the same airframe with an alternate engine might not bring much more than half the money.

On the other hand, the Rotax powered -9A already seems to have gained a high level of acceptance.
 
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If you're interested in an RV, find a way to get stick (or passenger) time in an 8 vs a 7 or a 9. There are plenty of advantages to both tandem and side by side seating. Your passenger(s) will probably like SBS, but as PIC you'll probably like tandem. Point is, try both and see which configuration fits you and your long term mission best.
 
Excellent suggestions here.

1. Certainly, just a lot of work. There's good builder support here on VAF and for technical things, Van's Support. But flat no for the instructions. The double-digit kits have better instructions, especially the 12, 14 and 15. No comparison. Van's will sell you thumb drives with the plans so you can compare them yourself.

2. Custom modifications ramify and affect things you haven't thought of. And I'm speaking as an aerospace engineer here. Alternative engines, unless there's a good firewall forward kit, are going to let you into a project whose likelihood of successful completion is low, with low resale value. Especially on an -8A, which isn't as popular as the -8. I strongly urge you to build per the plans with minimal deviation.

3. Get the Van's practice kits. In most areas, you can find helpful, experienced builders to mentor you. There is a great deal of advice here on VAF for tools and often some decent offerings. Second-hand tools are usually okay as they are durable.

Don't even think about avionics yet. By the time you are getting close to ready for all that, the entire market will have changed and your present-day decisions will be, if not obsolete, close to that.

Dave
 
I suggest a decision tree:
- Nose gear or tail dragger? I built and 8A and an 8. Both fly the same but don’t land the same. Go get some tailwheel time before you pull the trigger.
- Tandem or side by side. If you plan on taking a passenger most of the time look at a 7 or 7A. Keep in mind the 8 and 8A have the passenger aft of the pilot (not tradional). This is aways a W&B concern. Not a problem, just need to keep it in mind. I limit passenger and aft luggage to 180 pounds in my RV-8. Not because of the W&B going out of spec, just my preference.
- As others have suggested, resist the temptation to “improve” stuff. Any change adds a disproportionate amount of additional work. There are many “not so hard” things you can do to scratch that itch. Talk to other builders review on line builder’s logs.
- Do not go with an alternative engine. If you drag your heels enough the Delta Hawk MIGHT be and option. Don’t be an early adopter. I had a neighbor with a Kit Fox that that three engine out landings in the first year. He was running a Subaru engine and someone’s PSRU.
- Decide on mission priorities. 90% of my flying is high altitude Cross Country. I built the plane to do this as effecincy as possible. RVs are “time machines” for travel. I scratched the aerobatic itch with my first build (8A).
- Get your IFR ticket early on as a tool to help define your mission.

There is no substitute for asking other builders thoughts on pros/cons. I suspect you will not find any with “soft” opinions.

Carl
 
David Paule said:
Excellent suggestions here.

1. Certainly, just a lot of work. There's good builder support here on VAF and for technical things, Van's Support. But flat no for the instructions. The double-digit kits have better instructions, especially the 12, 14 and 15. No comparison. Van's will sell you thumb drives with the plans so you can compare them yourself.

2. Custom modifications ramify and affect things you haven't thought of. And I'm speaking as an aerospace engineer here. Alternative engines, unless there's a good firewall forward kit, are going to let you into a project whose likelihood of successful completion is low, with low resale value. Especially on an -8A, which isn't as popular as the -8. I strongly urge you to build per the plans with minimal deviation.

3. Get the Van's practice kits. In most areas, you can find helpful, experienced builders to mentor you. There is a great deal of advice here on VAF for tools and often some decent offerings. Second-hand tools are usually okay as they are durable.

Don't even think about avionics yet. By the time you are getting close to ready for all that, the entire market will have changed and your present-day decisions will be, if not obsolete, close to that.

Dave
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Rodger i will keep that in mind. I am a ways away from starting the build but the more i can plan, learn and evaluate the better my chances of successes. To answer your other question, i am currently in Castle Rock but this is likely to change. I have just graduated with my degree in Aerospace Engineering and am looking for a job, so hard to say here i will end up.
 
In regard to custom engines, there is a company i found who makes the custom cowl and parts needed for the FWF for the UL520T (Kaolin Aviation Services LLC). There are apparently a few examples of the RV-8 using this engine. I am not committed by any means to this path but its cool to see I'm not the only one who has thought of this.
 
DanH said:
Jim's suggestion is a very good one. Resale of a Lycoming powered 8 or 8A is excellent, while the same airframe with an alternate engine might not bring much more than half the money.

On the other hand, the Rotax powered -9A already seems to have gained a high level of acceptance.
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Being unworthy to respond to a DanH post, I would humbly suggest that though "resale of a Lycoming powered 8 or 8A is excellent", resale of an 8 is more excellent. And consider this: We frequently take passengers on our formation flights. And when we do, we put them in our RV7As. We feel that they would much prefer the experience of a side by side aircraft. So Lukie, if a significant other is in your planning make sure this person experiences the back seat of a tandem RV before you make your decision.
 
SMRacer said:
Being unworthy to respond to a DanH post, I would humbly suggest that though "resale of a Lycoming powered 8 or 8A is excellent", resale of an 8 is more excellent. And consider this: We frequently take passengers on our formation flights. And when we do, we put them in our RV7As. We feel that they would much prefer the experience of a side by side aircraft. So Lukie, if a significant other is in your planning make sure this person experiences the back seat of a tandem RV before you make your decision.
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I've gone back and forth a bit on weather to do the 8 or 7, maybe even 14. I am currently leaning towards the 8 because i like the idea of sitting centerline and the majority of my flights will be solo, with only occasionally having a passenger if only sometimes. I'm only 24 and this will be my first build so i might build a 14 or something else, maybe a velocity, in my future if i have a significant other to fly around with me.
 
I'm going 8A. Buying. Resale market is a bit better for 8A, if that's an issue, but most who are going to keep their plane will go 8. I like having a nosewheel (personal preference as I've bounced a couple of nosewheels on different aircraft. Nosewheel prevented prop strike almost certainly twice. But many pilots fly tail-draggers successfully without any issues, so if you're going to keep it, long-term, you may be well-served to talk to all those who have 8's and like having no nosewheel.
 
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