Van's Air Force
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Do we file or no?
- Thread starter Brantel
- Start date
This is my opinion as well. More information will become available after tomorrow's hearing, and especially after the Jan. 12 meeting of the creditors. And if you are a customer that has deposits tied up, then you need to understand what's being offered to you in exchange for you not filing a proof of claim. There's no benefit to filing a proof of claim before the deadline. I would just start thinking about what claims you may have and then make a decision closer to the deadline.
There is nothing magical at the court hearing tomorrow. Only 2 things on the docket and they have nothing to do with customers.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
I would be asking a bankruptcy attorney this:
If I file now, do I benefit by getting on the list faster so I'm higher up, giving me a better chance at getting something when it comes to sending out checks and amounts?
If I file now, can I retract the filing and accept another offer in the future?
If I file now, do I benefit by getting on the list faster so I'm higher up, giving me a better chance at getting something when it comes to sending out checks and amounts?
If I file now, can I retract the filing and accept another offer in the future?
Brantel
Well Known Member
Not sure much info will come out of tomorrows meeting since there are only 2 dockets to be discussed and they appear unrelated to claims.
Attachments
Well the hearings tomorrow are crucial. If Van's loses their motions to use cash collateral then they cannot continue business. Similar with the motion to obtain credit.
I suspect the judge will have many questions about the proposed budget, Van's estimations of number of customers accepting new contracts vs becoming claimants, how they will be handling engine deposits, etc.
I suspect the judge will have many questions about the proposed budget, Van's estimations of number of customers accepting new contracts vs becoming claimants, how they will be handling engine deposits, etc.
Brantel
Well Known Member
I agree they are crucial but I also believe they will get what they are asking for if this hearing goes anything like the last one.
I am not a "bankruptcy attorney" but am an attorney, and have some experience making claims in bankruptcy on behalf of clients.
No, you do not get a better position by filing a proof of claim sooner. All of the claims are placed into particular categories ("priority" vs. "secured" vs. "unsecured" etc) within the bankruptcy plan Vans will file. Claims are treated equally as to their particular category in the plan. I am personally feeling good about the fact that they've properly identified -- and intend to reflect in their plan -- that a certain amount of customer deposits are entitled to "priority" status and the remainder is "unsecured." Priority claims should be
That said, yes, you can file a proof of claim and then withdraw it. But it might just be a waste of your time. I anticipate that Vans will finalize and file their plan soon after the 1/30/24 deadline they've set on the order modifications (so that they can then categorize everyone's deposits on the plan). If they don't file a plan which includes a proposed payout to you (or don't properly categorize your claim), then you still have time before the 2/12/24 deadline to file a proof of claim and/or object to their proposed plan.
Sorry, my reply was not complete before and I couldn't edit it. Here it is completed:
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Thanks for the explanation. I'm always looking to learn new things and thank God I didn't have any money at Vans's.
You don’t have a claim if you agree to the new contract. That’s defeats the entire purpose of what they are doing.
Looking at the summary of the claims already filed it seems a lot of people miscategorize this. Only saw one claim which had it split that way .... .
Oliver
Brantel
Well Known Member
I know what their intentions are but where am I specifically giving up the claim in the legalese gobbledygook I was sent to sign?
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alfredo porras
I'm New Here
chapter 11 questions
I do not live in the US and I’m not at all familiar with the Chapter 11 procedure and, if I may, I would like to ask you some questions.
I have committed about 13 thousand dollars in orders for Fuselage QB, Wing QB and finished kit and another 3 thousand that correspond to an empennage kit purchased a long time ago and that do not fall within this process, but that I will lose if I reject the proposal that Vans informed me about.
Due to the increase in costs and the impossibility of knowing the delivery dates of the kits, I am going to make the difficult decision to reject the proposal. So, in relation to the process described in this option I have many doubts and I hope you can clarify the following questions, please.
1- About filing a bankruptcy claim:
•What does it mean?
• Will it be enough to opt out of reordering to initiate the filing a bankruptcy claim, or will I have to do some additional paperwork with another organization?
2- About the first $3,350 of the total of all your deposits could be submitted under “priority claim” status:
• Under this concept, is it possible to get a refund for this amount of money?
• If so, is there an estimated time by law?
3- And about the balance of your deposits presented under the status of “general unsecured claim”.
• Under this concept is there any possibility a refound the rest of the money?
I hope you can answer my question. And I will be very grateful for your explanation.
I do not live in the US and I’m not at all familiar with the Chapter 11 procedure and, if I may, I would like to ask you some questions.
I have committed about 13 thousand dollars in orders for Fuselage QB, Wing QB and finished kit and another 3 thousand that correspond to an empennage kit purchased a long time ago and that do not fall within this process, but that I will lose if I reject the proposal that Vans informed me about.
Due to the increase in costs and the impossibility of knowing the delivery dates of the kits, I am going to make the difficult decision to reject the proposal. So, in relation to the process described in this option I have many doubts and I hope you can clarify the following questions, please.
1- About filing a bankruptcy claim:
•What does it mean?
• Will it be enough to opt out of reordering to initiate the filing a bankruptcy claim, or will I have to do some additional paperwork with another organization?
2- About the first $3,350 of the total of all your deposits could be submitted under “priority claim” status:
• Under this concept, is it possible to get a refund for this amount of money?
• If so, is there an estimated time by law?
3- And about the balance of your deposits presented under the status of “general unsecured claim”.
• Under this concept is there any possibility a refound the rest of the money?
I hope you can answer my question. And I will be very grateful for your explanation.
First sorry you do have to throw in the towel. RV's are really great airplanes.
I am not a lawyer and I recommend you talk to one as getting legal advice on a bulletin board is dangerous. The Oregon bar association does have a referral service on their website.
My understanding is that you have to file a claim. The claim can be filed on line here:
https://cases.creditorinfo.com/vansaircraft/documents/docket
It allows you to specify the 3350$ portion on the claims form.
How much if anything you might get for either the priority or any other claim will be up to the court. It is likely to take a while till that is all sorted out and you get answers to that question. In some bankruptcy cases it takes years. I have no idea if this will be quicker here.
Filing deadline is 2/12/2024. So you do have some time to file but not forever.
Hope that helps.
Oliver
Jonnyb
Well Known Member
Have you thought about changing to slow build? Might be a better option than losing your money.
alfredo porras
I'm New Here
alfredo porras
I'm New Here
Yes it is an option, I thought about it.
But I don't want to risk any more money with Vans Aircraft and I don't have time to wait any longer to build a plane to fly.
I am 63 years old
I really like the RV-8, I have invested money and many hours of work in this airplane, but I prefer to see another airplane option given the unfortunate circumstances that are happening with Vans Aircraft.
I hope I can recover some money I spent with Vans aircraft
Dr_Dave_MT
Well Known Member
Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.
I’m “level” 66, not going to quit now.
pjc
Well Known Member
I don’t have a claim, am not a lawyer, and haven’t seen the gobbdygook. That said, I believe, that you are voluntarily agreeing to modify your contract with Van’s. As a result, they are agreeing not to reject your contract (as Chapter 11 allows them to if they choose). As a result, assuming the debtor’s Chapter 11 plan is approved by the court, you have a new, binding contract with the surviving Van’s aircraft. Since that contract is valid, and Vans intends to fill it, you have no basis for a claim (you are not owed anything which was denied by the Chapter 11 filing).
If you choose not to voluntarily agree to modify your pre-petition contract, Van’s will reject (terminate) your contract, and presuming the plan is approved by the judge, you will have a valid unsecured claim for what you were owed under that original contract. The chapter 11 plan will determine what funds (and when), if any, will be available to satisfy your claim.
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I am a lawyer. I am not an Oregon lawyer, a bankruptcy lawyer, or anyone’s lawyer on this forum (to the best of my knowledge). Here is my friendly advice to anyone who is thinking about getting a lawyer and/or filing a proof of claim in this case:
1. Get a lawyer, local in Oregon if possible and experienced in bankruptcy court if possible. It may also be possible for multiple people to share one lawyer and the lawyer’s fees, although it would require written conflict waivers and coordination which both take time. But mostly, don’t try to go it alone if you can help it. Courts hold everyone to the same rules, whether they have a lawyer or not.
2. If you decide to get a lawyer, start calling potential lawyers right away and let them know the basics: You are requesting advice and assistance regarding a Chapter 11 proof of claim in Oregon bankruptcy court, and the claim deadline is February 12, 2024. You are an unsecured creditor and part of your claim may be entitled to priority. You are not one of the biggest creditors, but you are one of the multitude of smaller creditors who make up the debt that the Chapter 11 filing is trying to restructure. You have deposited $X with the debtor to purchase goods that have not been delivered. The debtor has set a separate deadline for you to decide whether to amend your contract and pay a higher-than-contract and as-yet unspecified price for the goods, so you also want advice on the range of outcomes if you opt not to amend the contract and file a proof of claim.
3. Whether you want a lawyer or not, if you are in doubt about filing a proof of claim, then you should at least download the form right away and fill it out as truthfully and completely as you can. That will help you decide if you want to file it or not and it will help you work efficiently with a lawyer. You can pay us to do your homework for you, but our hourly rates are invariably higher than you pay yourself.
4. Claims are a whole area of law that you should not be looking to me for advice on, but in general the notice you got says what claims you should be filing proof of, and those are probably any reason at all that Van’s does or might owe you anything as of the date they filed for bankruptcy protection. A deposit you paid without getting anything is definitely a claim. An actual breach of contract or negligence lawsuit you were thinking about filing but haven’t yet is a claim. Things that happened after the bankruptcy filing date may or may not be claims. Things that have not even happened yet may or may not be claims.
1. Get a lawyer, local in Oregon if possible and experienced in bankruptcy court if possible. It may also be possible for multiple people to share one lawyer and the lawyer’s fees, although it would require written conflict waivers and coordination which both take time. But mostly, don’t try to go it alone if you can help it. Courts hold everyone to the same rules, whether they have a lawyer or not.
2. If you decide to get a lawyer, start calling potential lawyers right away and let them know the basics: You are requesting advice and assistance regarding a Chapter 11 proof of claim in Oregon bankruptcy court, and the claim deadline is February 12, 2024. You are an unsecured creditor and part of your claim may be entitled to priority. You are not one of the biggest creditors, but you are one of the multitude of smaller creditors who make up the debt that the Chapter 11 filing is trying to restructure. You have deposited $X with the debtor to purchase goods that have not been delivered. The debtor has set a separate deadline for you to decide whether to amend your contract and pay a higher-than-contract and as-yet unspecified price for the goods, so you also want advice on the range of outcomes if you opt not to amend the contract and file a proof of claim.
3. Whether you want a lawyer or not, if you are in doubt about filing a proof of claim, then you should at least download the form right away and fill it out as truthfully and completely as you can. That will help you decide if you want to file it or not and it will help you work efficiently with a lawyer. You can pay us to do your homework for you, but our hourly rates are invariably higher than you pay yourself.
4. Claims are a whole area of law that you should not be looking to me for advice on, but in general the notice you got says what claims you should be filing proof of, and those are probably any reason at all that Van’s does or might owe you anything as of the date they filed for bankruptcy protection. A deposit you paid without getting anything is definitely a claim. An actual breach of contract or negligence lawsuit you were thinking about filing but haven’t yet is a claim. Things that happened after the bankruptcy filing date may or may not be claims. Things that have not even happened yet may or may not be claims.
Not intending to name and shame, but it appears that the highest individual customer claimant right now (Claim 19) has done exactly that by trying to double-dip on claiming priority to $3350 limit and ALSO the remainder. That's just inviting the debtor to object, and simply gives the attorneys a reason to charge more fees (leaving less for everyone else).
I'll tell you what my wife, who is a recently retired CA consumer protection attorney, told me: I MUST file a claim or I will have ZERO options / control.
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bkc3921
Well Known Member
The future...?
Please don't throw rocks...I'm NOT an attorney, and know nothing about bankruptcy...Pardon me for asking such a rudimentary question.
I have a flying 7A, and ALL the kits to complete my 12iS..paid for, and in my possession....with no issues for LCP, etc.
Got my letter and I'm confused by the meaning of "You may also have experienced issues with other parts or devices and MAY DO SO IN THE FUTURE"...also ..."involving Debtor, either now existing or ARISING THE FUTURE..."
So...Does this mean if I don't file a claim as a future "potential" debtor (even though Van's owes me nothing now), I'm giving up my rights to any future claims for some unforeseen issue with parts, etc. that Van's may uncover down the road...?
Lord, I hope that question makes sense to someone...
Please don't throw rocks...I'm NOT an attorney, and know nothing about bankruptcy...Pardon me for asking such a rudimentary question.
I have a flying 7A, and ALL the kits to complete my 12iS..paid for, and in my possession....with no issues for LCP, etc.
Got my letter and I'm confused by the meaning of "You may also have experienced issues with other parts or devices and MAY DO SO IN THE FUTURE"...also ..."involving Debtor, either now existing or ARISING THE FUTURE..."
So...Does this mean if I don't file a claim as a future "potential" debtor (even though Van's owes me nothing now), I'm giving up my rights to any future claims for some unforeseen issue with parts, etc. that Van's may uncover down the road...?
Lord, I hope that question makes sense to someone...
Please don't throw rocks...I'm NOT an attorney, and know nothing about bankruptcy...Pardon me for asking such a rudimentary question.
I have a flying 7A, and ALL the kits to complete my 12iS..paid for, and in my possession....with no issues for LCP, etc.
Got my letter and I'm confused by the meaning of "You may also have experienced issues with other parts or devices and MAY DO SO IN THE FUTURE"...also ..."involving Debtor, either now existing or ARISING THE FUTURE..."
So...Does this mean if I don't file a claim as a future "potential" debtor (even though Van's owes me nothing now), I'm giving up my rights to any future claims for some unforeseen issue with parts, etc. that Van's may uncover down the road...?
Lord, I hope that question makes sense to someone...
I am not a lawyer either but reading the letter I would say yes. This is Van's get out of jail free card.
I am not sure though if/how you could put in a claim which holds up in Bankruptcy court if you can't be specific.
If you just put in a claim and then it gets rejected in court all you did is increased the legal fees Van's lawyers will charge and reduced what people with "current" claims can get.
So I am inclined to do nothing ... .
Oliver
bkc3921
Well Known Member
Please don't throw rocks...I'm NOT an attorney, and know nothing about bankruptcy...Pardon me for asking such a rudimentary question.
I have a flying 7A, and ALL the kits to complete my 12iS..paid for, and in my possession....with no issues for LCP, etc.
Got my letter and I'm confused by the meaning of "You may also have experienced issues with other parts or devices and MAY DO SO IN THE FUTURE"...also ..."involving Debtor, either now existing or ARISING THE FUTURE..."
So...Does this mean if I don't file a claim as a future "potential" debtor (even though Van's owes me nothing now), I'm giving up my rights to any future claims for some unforeseen issue with parts, etc. that Van's may uncover down the road...?
Lord, I hope that question makes sense to someone...
This is exactly what I asked before in another thread, and got absolutely no response
.I'm inclined to file a claim for future, unknown issues, with a value of what the entire airframe kits are costing these days.
Given that they have a recent bad track record of ignoring issues and telling people to "build on", who's to say that they won't continue that behavior when a previously unknown issue comes to light?
Unfortunately that's not possible - I spoke to Greg at Vans on 20-12-2023 and he confirmed to me that they cant allow changes to the ordered contracts as it violates the rules of chapter 11
sc_pilot
Active Member
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Oregon Lawyer
If anyone does reach out to an Oregon based bankruptcy attorney please post their info here so we could potentially do the same.
I plan to reach out to an AOPA attorney next week since it’s included in the pilot protection services I already pay for.
I plan to accept the new contract changes but would like to wait as long as possible to make that decision & commitment.
Thank you!
If anyone does reach out to an Oregon based bankruptcy attorney please post their info here so we could potentially do the same.
I plan to reach out to an AOPA attorney next week since it’s included in the pilot protection services I already pay for.
I plan to accept the new contract changes but would like to wait as long as possible to make that decision & commitment.
Thank you!
Ironic… can’t change a contract in chapter 11, yet here we are “changing” contracts
It would be nice if they would say exactly which rule of chapter 11 would be violated by the parties to a contract agreeing to change the deliverable product at the same time as they're agreeing to change the price. This is where talking to a lawyer who specializes in bankruptcy law would be helpful.
One of the first court orders that Vans obtained immediately after filing bankruptcy says that all order contracts can be rejected “unless otherwise agreed.” So basically they are saying that they are not agreeing to modify contracts to change the deliverable product. Here’s the court order if you want to follow procedures for objecting to Vans rejecting your contract, but it’s not going to make them agree to change the contract in the way you want: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.orb.528157/gov.uscourts.orb.528157.32.0.pdf
No, it doesn't force them to agree to change the contract, but to me it reads as though they can. And why wouldn't they want to accept a modified contract if it definitely means more proceeds from selling another kit? After all, they're goal is to continue to sell kits (at a new, profitable price.)
They can agree but they just don’t want to because they get to keep the prior deposit amount exceeding $3350 on the existing kit (which they already spent on operating expenses BTW). Vans pays it back over 3-5 years (and possibly for a reduced amount). Then Vans gets you to pay a higher price when you make a completely new order since you can’t modify the old order. So yeah, definitely better outcome for Vans financially when customers effectively loan them money at 0% interest rate, the owner gets paid a 10% interest rate on money he paid in, and customers continue to commit to new kit orders. It does not appear that a significant amount of customers object to that outcome for Vans to change course on its plan.
I've tried doing this and they said their pilot protection services does not cover Vans bankruptcy. They offered a 30 minute conversation with one of their staff in the interim.
I would think that Van's would be eager to convert QB orders to SB. Wouldn't converting an order to SB generate a profit much sooner? Driving away a potential builder just to keep the deposit they've already spent doesn't help them reach their goal of profitability, IMO.
But it does help them sell inventory - which includes the QB kits already sitting in the warehouse - without either spending more money producing parts for SB or stranding them with unsold inventory.
The already stated goal by Vans during the Ch 11 proceedings is to quickly turn inventory into cash. If any major portion of QB builders decided to transfer over to SB, Vans would have to build those parts ($$ spent) and be left with unsold QB kits on hand.
apicreator
Member
fully paid QB
Does anyone knows if those that have fully paid the QB have to sign the extra price increase? It is not that we have locked a deposit, we fully paid for it and they were supposed to be shipped by now. Even if we sign for the extra price, the price might still increase before shipment.
Does anyone knows if those that have fully paid the QB have to sign the extra price increase? It is not that we have locked a deposit, we fully paid for it and they were supposed to be shipped by now. Even if we sign for the extra price, the price might still increase before shipment.
Every existing 'open' order with vans pre-petition is cancelled...without exception. Even those with 100% deposited on order.
See 1 customer who recently filed a claim with Vans for the total deposit he made on an RV-10. All $135K! Obviously a very unhappy customer.
Is this stated in any of the bankruptcy documents we have access to? If so, does anyone know which one?
Thanks,
This was already posted earlier in the thread:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.orb.528157/gov.uscourts.orb.528157.32.0.pdf
Note that the order does not only apply to deposits but ALL Kit and Aircraft Contracts.
Oliver
It is becoming clear that there are several "buckets" that apply here and any one customer may have action in more than one group.
1. Airframe Kit deposit made, kit not shipped. These contract counterparties (customers) apparently received an email to go to a portal and accept or reject a replacement contract with a price increase. A lopsided "renegotiation" of contract allowed by the bankruptcy law and court.
2. Customers who have paid in full and received their kit except for backordered parts. Currently in limbo, waiting on parts to be delivered or notice of rejection in mail or a portal invitation to modify contract. Court has deadline of Jan 15 for Debtor or DIP (Vans) for notice of rejection to be sent. Vans may ask to extend that deadline.
3. Webstore orders on backorder. Vans did not charge credit cards for ordered parts until shipped, thus no contract exists. Vans may unilaterally cancel the order and have customer re-order with new pricing or if inconsequential may be easier for them to fill the order at original price. (Think small nuts, bolts rivet orders where it may be more cost effective time wise to just fill the order).
4. Deposits made on Powerplant, Prop, and FWF kits. Vans has been silent on these contracts other than to say something is coming soon. The Notice of Rejection deadline applies to these contracts too, so the clock is ticking per court order.
5. Deposits made on Avionics kits, See 4 above.
6. Those with kits delivered with LCP. Technically these contracts have been fulfilled in the eyes of the law and court. Thus I am not sure that a claim for LCP parts replacement cost would be accepted as valid by the court. Everybody including Vans knows they can't ignore the issue. The reorganization plan will need to address the financial impact of whatever steps Vans takes to mitigate the LCP issue. Of import though, is the bankruptcy process stays any legal proceedings regarding LCP and provides some liability protection going forward.
Thus Vans is trying to clean up bucket 1 where there is cash to be gained and every contract that gets modified via the portal is one less contract that has to be rejected via the rejection procedure. I am only guessing that bucket 2 is problematic as it concerns supply chain issues that have been made worse, essentially frozen, by the bankruptcy process. We may see more after the Case Management Conference on Jan 16th. The way bucket 3 will be handled is likely part of the reorganization plan and likely one of the last issues to be addressed. Bucket 4 and 5 are likely pending the Case Management Conference and /or Creditors meeting as these are highly dependent on 3rd party suppliers and there is little to no market room for significant price increases thus not a cash cow for Vans. Vans is obligated to solve the issue for RV-12 builders as its required under the LSA rules, not so much the rest. Vans could decide to just "auto-reject" those contracts and let folks file a claim for their deposit. Eventually, these creditors could get some or all of their deposit back but no promises. This would be an awful PR problem thus I am cautiously optimistic a solution closer to what is being done with airframe kits will eventually appear.
The deadline to file a claim remains Feb 12, 2024. The notice of Case management went to 1885 people of which apparently around 1400 - 1500 airframe kit contracts apply. Yes, one person may have more than one contract. The 1885 includes employees, suppliers, and contract holders.
So I am still in a holding pattern, being in buckets 2, 3, and 4. Meanwhile I've dug out and organized the paperwork to file a claim if need be by Feb 12. Hopefully information will come in time as it behooves Vans to successfully renegotiate their contracts before the Notice of Rejection deadline. Please understand I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice but my own way of sifting through the information into manageable bites. Having operated a medical practice, a small business, and a farm for 40 years sadly this is just another in a long string of bankruptcy proceedings I have been involved with as a potential creditor. FWIW, YMMV.
JJR
1. Airframe Kit deposit made, kit not shipped. These contract counterparties (customers) apparently received an email to go to a portal and accept or reject a replacement contract with a price increase. A lopsided "renegotiation" of contract allowed by the bankruptcy law and court.
2. Customers who have paid in full and received their kit except for backordered parts. Currently in limbo, waiting on parts to be delivered or notice of rejection in mail or a portal invitation to modify contract. Court has deadline of Jan 15 for Debtor or DIP (Vans) for notice of rejection to be sent. Vans may ask to extend that deadline.
3. Webstore orders on backorder. Vans did not charge credit cards for ordered parts until shipped, thus no contract exists. Vans may unilaterally cancel the order and have customer re-order with new pricing or if inconsequential may be easier for them to fill the order at original price. (Think small nuts, bolts rivet orders where it may be more cost effective time wise to just fill the order).
4. Deposits made on Powerplant, Prop, and FWF kits. Vans has been silent on these contracts other than to say something is coming soon. The Notice of Rejection deadline applies to these contracts too, so the clock is ticking per court order.
5. Deposits made on Avionics kits, See 4 above.
6. Those with kits delivered with LCP. Technically these contracts have been fulfilled in the eyes of the law and court. Thus I am not sure that a claim for LCP parts replacement cost would be accepted as valid by the court. Everybody including Vans knows they can't ignore the issue. The reorganization plan will need to address the financial impact of whatever steps Vans takes to mitigate the LCP issue. Of import though, is the bankruptcy process stays any legal proceedings regarding LCP and provides some liability protection going forward.
Thus Vans is trying to clean up bucket 1 where there is cash to be gained and every contract that gets modified via the portal is one less contract that has to be rejected via the rejection procedure. I am only guessing that bucket 2 is problematic as it concerns supply chain issues that have been made worse, essentially frozen, by the bankruptcy process. We may see more after the Case Management Conference on Jan 16th. The way bucket 3 will be handled is likely part of the reorganization plan and likely one of the last issues to be addressed. Bucket 4 and 5 are likely pending the Case Management Conference and /or Creditors meeting as these are highly dependent on 3rd party suppliers and there is little to no market room for significant price increases thus not a cash cow for Vans. Vans is obligated to solve the issue for RV-12 builders as its required under the LSA rules, not so much the rest. Vans could decide to just "auto-reject" those contracts and let folks file a claim for their deposit. Eventually, these creditors could get some or all of their deposit back but no promises. This would be an awful PR problem thus I am cautiously optimistic a solution closer to what is being done with airframe kits will eventually appear.
The deadline to file a claim remains Feb 12, 2024. The notice of Case management went to 1885 people of which apparently around 1400 - 1500 airframe kit contracts apply. Yes, one person may have more than one contract. The 1885 includes employees, suppliers, and contract holders.
So I am still in a holding pattern, being in buckets 2, 3, and 4. Meanwhile I've dug out and organized the paperwork to file a claim if need be by Feb 12. Hopefully information will come in time as it behooves Vans to successfully renegotiate their contracts before the Notice of Rejection deadline. Please understand I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice but my own way of sifting through the information into manageable bites. Having operated a medical practice, a small business, and a farm for 40 years sadly this is just another in a long string of bankruptcy proceedings I have been involved with as a potential creditor. FWIW, YMMV.
JJR
Thanks, Oliver!
MIKE JG
Well Known Member
6a. would be customers with QB kits already delivered that have LCP in them. Vans is obligated to fix those QB kits are they not?? Or at least provide a financial compensation to those customers for the cost of replacing those parts in those kits deemed "replacement recommended"??
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Vans is no longer obligated to do anything. Vans is bankrupt.
QB kits on hand with LCP parts is for sure one if the highest liability groups. Good luck.
apicreator
Member
Court Notification re Van's Aircraft, Inc.
It seems that you could send an Objection to those with increased prices. However, this was not clearly mentioned.
I just received an email from BMC Group that says: Court Notification re Van's Aircraft, Inc.
It has this useful information:
————
If you object to the proposed rejection of your contract ("Objection"), you must file the Objection with the clerk of court at U.S. Bankruptcy Court, 405 E 8th Avenue #2600, Eugene, Oregon 97401 and serve the Objection so that it is actually received by the following parties (collectively, the "Objection Service Parties") no later than fourteen (14) calendar days after the date Debtor served this Notice on you …
————
I didnt know we can object. BMC platform has only a button to Accept, no link nor in the Freq Questions was there a mention: What do I do if I want to object?
Second issue, it is the timing: the new increased pricing was communicated on 19 December. Between the weekends, the holidays and the non-working days, we barely had a few days to be able get advice and submit an objection. Sadly, this deadline has no passed.
A lot of cloud cover…
I am in the group with a fully paid kit (not shipped) and which I am asked more money for. I do not have just a deposit.
It seems that you could send an Objection to those with increased prices. However, this was not clearly mentioned.
I just received an email from BMC Group that says: Court Notification re Van's Aircraft, Inc.
It has this useful information:
————
If you object to the proposed rejection of your contract ("Objection"), you must file the Objection with the clerk of court at U.S. Bankruptcy Court, 405 E 8th Avenue #2600, Eugene, Oregon 97401 and serve the Objection so that it is actually received by the following parties (collectively, the "Objection Service Parties") no later than fourteen (14) calendar days after the date Debtor served this Notice on you …
————
I didnt know we can object. BMC platform has only a button to Accept, no link nor in the Freq Questions was there a mention: What do I do if I want to object?
Second issue, it is the timing: the new increased pricing was communicated on 19 December. Between the weekends, the holidays and the non-working days, we barely had a few days to be able get advice and submit an objection. Sadly, this deadline has no passed.
A lot of cloud cover…
I am in the group with a fully paid kit (not shipped) and which I am asked more money for. I do not have just a deposit.
Re Bucket 3 per DOCJJRMD…….. VANS did indeed ask and receive funds (in full) by some means for parts orders, (which in my case included a couple of back ordered items) and that was a condition of in fact placing the order, ie no money, “your order isn’t going to be processed” So as far as I’m concerned there definitely is (or was) a contract for my outstanding order. Guess I’m not the only one who has paid the previous full price for parts orders.
