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Antigravity Lithium Battery

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KiloMikeCHD

Member
Only post I saw related to this is 10 years old with no replies so thought I would give it a shot. I absolutely have the worst luck with the Odyssey batteries in my 7A. I am lucky to get 2 years out of them. A friend recommended the Antigravity Lithium battery. Anyone else have experience with these? If not is there another recommendation to replace the Odyssey?
 
KiloMikeCHD said:
I absolutely have the worst luck with the Odyssey batteries in my 7A. I am lucky to get 2 years out of them.
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Interesting, I get 6+ years out of the Odyssey batteries (two batteries, the oldest replaced every three years). The 6+ year old pulls then go on to a second life in tractors and such. Perhaps before jumping to another battery take a hard look at whatever you are doing to see if there is a “cause and effect”.

I never use any battery tender/maintainer/trickle charger on any of my builds. For the rare hangar flying I connect a 30 amp regulated power supply to the ship (it acts just like the alternator). It runs the ship and if needed tops off the batteries as a by product. It is connected only when I’m with the plane.

Side note - if you run a battery flat (as in leaving a Master on) then the battery should be considered dead for aviation. You might breathe some life into it but it is damaged and you have no insight into how much capacity you lost. Replace it and used the pulled battery for your lawn tractor.

Carl
 
What Ive found is anything that has a slight draw on the battery such as clocks etc seems to take the edge off the battery over time. So, Ive completely removed anything like that.

Yes if you leave the power on and kill the battery then normally its done.

Except I bought a Noco charger and have used the desulfurization mode to bring it back to life. I also do this as a form of maintenance once a year. Great success.

I agree, dont use a tender as that does appear to shorten the life .

Tim
 
Carl Froehlich said:
Interesting, I get 6+ years out of the Odyssey batteries (two batteries, the oldest replaced every three years). The 6+ year old pulls then go on to a second life in tractors and such. Perhaps before jumping to another battery take a hard look at whatever you are doing to see if there is a “cause and effect”.

I never use any battery tender/maintainer/trickle charger on any of my builds. For the rare hangar flying I connect a 30 amp regulated power supply to the ship (it acts just like the alternator). It runs the ship and if needed tops off the batteries as a by product. It is connected only when I’m with the plane.

Side note - if you run a battery flat (as in leaving a Master on) then the battery should be considered dead for aviation. You might breathe some life into it but it is damaged and you have no insight into how much capacity you lost. Replace it and used the pulled battery for your lawn tractor.

Carl
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I have gone through the whole system and so has 3 mechanics. We have replaced the alternator, tested to see if there is a phantom drain (there is not) and I had one battery where I ran the Odyssey trickler full time and the next I never ran it. Same result. So there is something odd somewhere and we cannot find it. The next logical step is to try another battery.
 
KiloMikeCHD said:
I have gone through the whole system and so has 3 mechanics. We have replaced the alternator, tested to see if there is a phantom drain (there is not) and I had one battery where I ran the Odyssey trickler full time and the next I never ran it. Same result. So there is something odd somewhere and we cannot find it. The next logical step is to try another battery.
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I suggest taking your cheap Harbor Freight multimeter, disconnecting the battery ground and putting the meter (in mAmp mode) between the battery ground and aircraft ground, master off. Current flow or not?

Carl
 
I have the original Odyssey PC680 battery that came with the Vans kit. The first time I used it was to do the first engine start on my RV8 last June. I was surprise at the cranking power then. But unfortunately after nine months since the first start, the battery is having difficulty starting the engine the morning. If I only power on the EFIS with EMS only, then it has the cranking juice to slow crank the engine. It is disappointing to have a battery that degraded so fast in such short amount of time. I am thinking of replacing it with a Li unit after my phase 1 is over. I don't want to get stranded in some places far away from home to find the PC680 unit doesn't want to crank.
 
Carl Froehlich said:
I suggest taking your cheap Harbor Freight multimeter, disconnecting the battery ground and putting the meter (in mAmp mode) between the battery ground and aircraft ground, master off. Current flow or not?

Carl
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That is the first thing I did. We have chased this wild goose all over the plane. This is a risk when you are not the builder. According to the logs, previous owner had the same issue.

So moving on past the current issue, any other battery alternatives?
 
Heat is the enemy of batteries so not surprised by your experience in Phoenix. I also had 3 AGM batteries that died suddenly at about the 2 year mark.
Suggest you look into the EarthX ETX 900. There are several threads about replacing batteries in the 7. Search EarthX in the 7 forum.
 
jrtens said:
Heat is the enemy of batteries so not surprised by your experience in Phoenix. I also had 3 AGM batteries that died suddenly at about the 2 year mark.
Suggest you look into the EarthX ETX 900. There are several threads about replacing batteries in the 7. Search EarthX in the 7 forum.
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This is what I was looking for. I kept stopping by the EarthX booth at Osh and asking when they would have a battery that would fit in the battery box designed for the Odyssey. Price tag is hefty though I have not heard anyone say anything else negative about them. I will also reference the 7 forum. THANK YOU!
 
PhatRV said:
I have the original Odyssey PC680 battery that came with the Vans kit. The first time I used it was to do the first engine start on my RV8 last June. I was surprise at the cranking power then. But unfortunately after nine months since the first start, the battery is having difficulty starting the engine the morning. If I only power on the EFIS with EMS only, then it has the cranking juice to slow crank the engine. It is disappointing to have a battery that degraded so fast in such short amount of time. I am thinking of replacing it with a Li unit after my phase 1 is over. I don't want to get stranded in some places far away from home to find the PC680 unit doesn't want to crank.
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I would check your power and ground connections. I found the power and ground connections to the battery are suspects for getting resistive because the lead may react with the bolts and washers may cause some corrosion to build up. I think the best is to have a lead/ silver connection, or lead / solder connection (Solder dipped terminals). JMHO YMMV
 
PilotjohnS said:
I would check your power and ground connections. I found the power and ground connections to the battery are suspects for getting resistive because the lead may react with the bolts and washers may cause some corrosion to build up. I think the best is to have a lead/ silver connection, or lead / solder connection (Solder dipped terminals). JMHO YMMV
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Absolutely. E=IR. Lots of amps x very small resistance means a big voltage drop at starter

And test the battery before you throw it away: https://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf

I removed it from the airplane as preventive maintenance, but the Odyssey PC925 I bought in 2008 is still cranking my John Deere lawn tractor. Personally I think a PC680 is too small for our engines, but I ain't gonna fight about it ;)
 
KiloMikeCHD said:
Only post I saw related to this is 10 years old with no replies so thought I would give it a shot. I absolutely have the worst luck with the Odyssey batteries in my 7A. I am lucky to get 2 years out of them. A friend recommended the Antigravity Lithium battery. Anyone else have experience with these? If not is there another recommendation to replace the Odyssey?
Click to expand...
Try Walmart tractor bat. last for ever, A friend has one in a tailwind 6yrs old going strong, your bat master when off will isolate the bat from elect sys, nothing hooked direct to the bat.
 
P.S. good idea ck ground, have found paint on ground surface, acft doing some strange things , do you have bond wires between engine, mount, airframe
 
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PilotjohnS said:
I would check your power and ground connections. I found the power and ground connections to the battery are suspects for getting resistive because the lead may react with the bolts and washers may cause some corrosion to build up. I think the best is to have a lead/ silver connection, or lead / solder connection (Solder dipped terminals). JMHO YMMV
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I don't think there is a ground power issue but I can check again. It started okay when it's warm outside, even with a hot engine after the battery is charged with 14.4V alternator power. As in the other DanH post, cold weather and high viscosity oil probably require more starting amperage than the battery can provide. Doing any EFIS diagnostic will quickly drain the battery too.
 
KiloMikeCHD said:
Only post I saw related to this is 10 years old with no replies so thought I would give it a shot. I absolutely have the worst luck with the Odyssey batteries in my 7A. I am lucky to get 2 years out of them. A friend recommended the Antigravity Lithium battery. Anyone else have experience with these? If not is there another recommendation to replace the Odyssey?
Click to expand...
I don't yet own an RV but I use a Lithium battery in my Rotorway helicopter. I would recommend the Earthx 1200ETX. It is FAA certified. Lithium batteries are not just drop in replacements for lead-acid. They can have some nasty characteristics if they are not protected by their internal protection circuits.

They have much lower internal resistance which means that they can produce much higher current without losing voltage for starts. It also means that they will charge up much faster. Because they will take much higher current while charging you may need to change the circuit breakers and wiring size for the charging circuit.

They also discharge without reducing voltage until they are nearly dead and have a higher normal working voltage that lead acid. This means that a12V low voltage light will not tell you the alternator is out, it will tell you that the alternator as been out for a long time and the battery is basically already dead.

Lithium batteries work really well in aircraft, but make sure you know what you are doing and make the modifications required to the rest of your electrical system.

My system uses a B&C regulator set to 14.5 V and an alternator out light set at 13.3 V. I have a 65 amp alternator and have measured 55 amps going out at high charge rates.
 
DanH said:
Personally I think a PC680 is too small for our engines, but I ain't gonna fight about it ;)
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Agree. I run two PC-625s with normal operations having them in parrallel. I do test to verify engine start on just one (one of the system’s backup modes) but starting is not as lively.

Carl
 
KiloMikeCHD said:
Only post I saw related to this is 10 years old with no replies so thought I would give it a shot. I absolutely have the worst luck with the Odyssey batteries in my 7A. I am lucky to get 2 years out of them. A friend recommended the Antigravity Lithium battery. Anyone else have experience with these? If not is there another recommendation to replace the Odyssey?
Click to expand...
I used the PC680 for a number of years with decent results. They, others don't last forever and even the slightest drain can ruin them over time.

Obviously, if there is ANYTHING that uses ANY electricity when the "MASTER" is off, you need to remove it for now.

A friend of mine was having trouble with his RV14 (390) cranking slowly and then "crickets", no crank.

Since I changed to the EarthX LiFePo batteries back when they first came out (and even did some testing), I have been using them since then. Initially, the "680 equivalent" fit rather "snug" in the PC689 battery box. THey have since shave a few millimeters off the case and it drops in quite easily. Their "900" is in the same case and does so as well.

So naturally I suggested that my friend get an EarthX. He got the 900 for his RV14.

BUT!!!!!!

Before we installed the new battery, we checked and found a few things.

1. The GROUND cable, where connect to the engine block was NOT as tight as it should be.
2. We REMOVED the cable and discovered that when his engine had been removed, enhanced, and returned, there was ***PAINT** left where the ground connected.

These two items could have led to a) poor ability of the PC680 cranking as it should and b) less than proper voltage to the battery for charging.

I would guess that your current PC680 is "toast" as far as aviation is concerned. Don't sweat it. Don't look back. Just replace it NOW so that you don't get stranded. (My buddy picked up a kid at my hangar and took her flying for a while. They returned to my hangar and when he got in his plane to taxi to his hangar, it would NOT start. It happened that quickly. Luckily he was not off somewhere so we just pulled it in, got the EarthX and installed it.

He is now a happy camper.

A new EarthX ETX680 will spin the engine a LOT faster than a new PC680. It will also suck a lot more amps from your alternator to replenish what was removed for the cranking. So make sure that you have a good one. If you have a 50A alternator, don't be surprised to see 55-60 amps for a minute or so. And if you want more capacity the ETX900 will fit the same space (yes, your wallet will be a little lighter :) ).

One more thing ...

Depending upon where your battery is mounted and depending upon your current CG, be very mindful that the EarthX is SHOCKingly much LIGHTer than the PC680 (or its equivalents).
 
jclark said:
A new EarthX ETX680 will spin the engine a LOT faster than a new PC680. It will also suck a lot more amps from your alternator to replenish what was removed for the cranking. So make sure that you have a good one. If you have a 50A alternator, don't be surprised to see 55-60 amps for a minute or so. And if you want more capacity the ETX900 will fit the same space (yes, your wallet will be a little lighter :) ).

One more thing ...

Depending upon where your battery is mounted and depending upon your current CG, be very mindful that the EarthX is SHOCKingly much LIGHTer than the PC680 (or its equivalents).
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All true, just understand a Sky-Tec light weight starter will suck amps at a higher rate than a NL starter and proceed to drain a battery faster.

ANL fuses are rated at 50% plus name plate data for 60 mins so don't panic. I've seen regularly my 60-amp B@C alternator put out 70 amps through my 60-amp ANL fuse. (Yes, my alternator probably does not like it, but my pad mount is there just in case)
 
KiloMikeCHD said:
I am going to try this. The physical specs are almost identical which is one issue I have had finding an alternative. Thanks so much for the recommendation and I will let you know how it goes.
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I just installed the Fullriver Full Throttle FT230 in my RV-8. Got it on sale for $109 taxes included. Replaced the odyssey 680. Fit with no modifications. I’m hopeful it holds up.
 
PhatRV said:
I don't think there is a ground power issue but I can check again. It started okay when it's warm outside, even with a hot engine after the battery is charged with 14.4V alternator power. As in the other DanH post, cold weather and high viscosity oil probably require more starting amperage than the battery can provide. Doing any EFIS diagnostic will quickly drain the battery too.
Click to expand...
Update on PC680 temperature behavior testing

I usually started my phase1 test flights in the early morning, the outside temperature was between the high 40s and low 50s this time of year. I realize it's not "cold" compare to other parts of the US. Yesterday, I decided to take a flight in the late afternoon to practice landings at higher wind condition and to checkout the battery at higher ambient temperature. It was 67F. The starter fired up after 1 turn of the prop, no drama whatsoever. This was just as easy like like when I did the first engine start at 75degF outside in the middle of June. This is another data point for the PC680 battery.

P.S. I didn't use the battery charger after the previous flight.
 
PhatRV said:
Update on PC680 temperature behavior testing

I usually started my phase1 test flights in the early morning, the outside temperature was between the high 40s and low 50s this time of year. I realize it's not "cold" compare to other parts of the US. Yesterday, I decided to take a flight in the late afternoon to practice landings at higher wind condition and to checkout the battery at higher ambient temperature. It was 67F. The starter fired up after 1 turn of the prop, no drama whatsoever. This was just as easy like like when I did the first engine start at 75degF outside in the middle of June. This is another data point for the PC680 battery.

P.S. I didn't use the battery charger after the previous flight.
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Temperature affects battery performance, but also note the large change in viscosity between 10C and 19C (50 and 67 F) for straight weight oil.

ScreenHunter_2194 Apr. 08 12.12.jpg
 
Another option to the PC680 is the EnerSys Hawker SBS-J16 battery. EnerSys makes both of these batteries and the SBS-J16 is a drop in replacement to the 680 and fits the same battery box. The Hawker battery has 220 CCA vs 170 for the PC 680.
 
Over the course of 6 years, I had two different PC680's. I was NOT happy with either one!!! Even when brand new they never turned the prop with any
gusto that I always saw in so many other aircraft. About six years ago I changed to a battery I saw mentioned in another thread here on VAF. From the first start my
160hp lycoming turns over with amazing cranking power. Although after 5 years it was still working as well as the day I installed it, I installed a new one
which is performing the same way. The old one is still going strong as a 12V power source in my workshop. The cost of the PC680's was IMO way too much
for the poor performance I received from them. The Apex 12220 battery I use is about 1/3 the cost. I am happy.
 
Tracy, I think they must have been bought out. The first one I had had green APEX with additional information in green. The new one I just bought several months back are black. If I remember I got them through battery sharks. If you google Apex 12220 battery these batteries come up. I just saw one that's white in color with same dimension etc. For anyone wanting to know, The "Apex 12220" battery is an AGM and has a 22ah rating. The dimensions are very close to a PC 680 but I think it must be a 32nd on an inch wider. It would slide down in the 680 tray about 3/4 of the way then wedge. I put a piece of nylon in the bottom and left it like that. Did have to put in longer hold down bolts. Another piece of information about this battery. It's actually for electrical wheel chairs and carts etc. With the said the first one I installed worked flawlessly for 5 years and was working just as well as the day it was installed... lot's of craning gusto... when I removed it. I just checked and the 680 is selling for around $170+ or so. I just looked at the white apex 12220 and it's $34 from battery sharks. I love mine.
 
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