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Another Engine Delay

Mark Dickens

Mark Dickens

Well Known Member
Patron
Just got this from Vans:

"Thank you for purchasing your Lycoming engine through Van’s Aircraft.

We want you to know that Lycoming notified us last week that “due to a temporary crankshaft forging shortage” IO-390 engine production is being rescheduled. The impact to you is anticipated to be a 2-6 month delay from the initial delivery estimates provided to us and conveyed to you.

However, we understand that production on other models may shift as a result of this, so non-IO-390 engines may be completed sooner than originally expected.

If you ordered an IO-390 from us: Your delivery will be delayed by 2-6 months.

If you ordered another model of Lycoming from us: Your delivery date might be sooner than first estimated.

Over the next 2-3 days, we will be updating the Kit Status Portal with new shipment estimates as we get them from Lycoming. Please check there to see the most current information. By design, the Kit Status Portal will send you a notification when estimated delivery dates change for any of your open orders; this will be no exception.

Of course, you can always reach our kit-sales team via email or call 503-678-6545. We appreciate your business, and will update you soon."

And yet another reason to avoid the 390 if at all possible!
 
Oh no! When did you order your engine? I have a feeling I'll be getting the same email soon. If my Thunderbolt 390 gets delayed another six months, I'll need to pick up another hobby. At my age, I'm running out of new hobbies :-(
 
I got that email as well. Very disappointing. I will probably be 30 months from time of purchase.

I also noted the email was from Greg Hughes and my understanding was he is no longer with Vans??
 
bertschb said:
Oh no! When did you order your engine? I have a feeling I'll be getting the same email soon. If my Thunderbolt 390 gets delayed another six months, I'll need to pick up another hobby. At my age, I'm running out of new hobbies :-(
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Brian, I am afraid you and I may be in the same boat. My former delivery date was May 18...my order date was 9/18//2024
 
Mark Dickens said:
Brian, I am afraid you and I may be in the same boat. My former delivery date was May 18...my order date was 9/18//2024
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I'm really sorry your engine is delayed Mark. What a gut punch. I ordered mine in April 2023. I'm dreading checking my email.
 
bertschb said:
I'm really sorry your engine is delayed Mark. What a gut punch. I ordered mine in April 2023. I'm dreading checking my email.
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Well, at least I have my Bearhawk project....and I can think of many worse things!

And you may get yours since your order date was before mine. I'd think they would process these in order date order
 
Cutlass said:
I got that email as well. Very disappointing. I will probably be 30 months from time of purchase.

I also noted the email was from Greg Hughes and my understanding was he is no longer with Vans??
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Mine came from Media@, I bet your system just has Greg as the name tied to that email address.

When did you order your engine?
 
I got that email as well. Very disappointing. I will probably be 30 months from time of purchase. I also noted the email was from Greg Hughes and my understanding was he is no longer with Vans??
Jkalpine said:
Mine came from Media@, I bet your system just has Greg as the name tied to that email address.

When did you order your engine?
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yea I think that was my issue. I deleted all contacts from vans media. Thanks. Engine ordered 08/24. On the schedule to ship 04/26 but not now I suspect.
 
If anyone is willing to post when you ordered your motor and what model, that would be great. We ordered an IO-390 in 2022 and are in the same boat. Would at least make us feel like we’re not alone. Ugg Its frustrating, and we sent all the money in!
 
ordered / deposit given on 8/22/24 for the YIO390EXP119ACC

Prior to today, my estimated ship date was 5/1/26

Got the email today...

Good thing I wasn't planning on.. i dunno.. mounting the engine, getting the cowl all sorted out and painted, etc while it was going to be warm enough weather to do more glass work and paint here in MI.
 
Patr said:
If anyone is willing to post when you ordered your motor and what model, that would be great. We ordered an IO-390 in 2022 and are in the same boat. Would at least make us feel like we’re not alone. Ugg Its frustrating, and we sent all the money in!
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I order the engine January 2023. Late November 2025 I received notice for delivery January 21, 2026, and request to pay the reminder of the cost. I have paid the full amount, and now I also received the same email. Like everyone , I’m very upset at Vans Aircraft lack of commitment to meet targets. Vans certainly demand from us to pay on time.
 
Looks like I am not the only one that is very disappointed and unhappy. I received the same noticed today for another 2-6 months delay, I wish I could understand the whole thing and how the businesses have changed just from a decade or so ago.
 
aguiraf said:
I order the engine January 2023. Late November 2025 I received notice for delivery January 21, 2026, and request to pay the reminder of the cost. I have paid the full amount, and now I also received the same email. Like everyone , I’m very upset at Vans Aircraft lack of commitment to meet targets. Vans certainly demand from us to pay on time.
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Oh my gosh. I guess you have the worst case scenario. Is your engine a Thunderbolt? I hope you "only" have a two month delay since you've already paid in full.
 
Dan 57 said:
already pitying those -15 builders who having built their airframes in a cinch will then be awaiting that TB 390 delivery date... not wanting to derail that thread, but I'd probably would be eyeing some other engine manufacturer...
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Maybe its time to start looking at the Conti IO-360's. A great engine, reasonably priced, can make the needed HP. I know it weighs a little more but that can be mitigated. Probably a little cheaper all the way around and you can spend the extra savings on a lighter prop. Maybe someone like Showplanes needs to make the cowling and engine mount? I am sure there are going to be cable routing issues if the -15 firewall is PP. Plug the holes and move on. I would rather have the Conti- 360 as its smoother and sounds cooler!
 
There was a video on here showing how Lycomings are made. It also revealed who actually makes the parts. Most major components like crankshaft's come from the automotive performance industry.

There's some reasonably wealthy and very smart business men on this forum. I'd think with a little cash they could resurrect the Lycoming clone industry, supply more affordable engines, and make a solid profit in the process. The afore mentioned crankshafts for instance are marked up 3x by Lycoming. I'm sure cams, engine cases, and cylinders are the same.
 
Bavafa said:
Looks like I am not the only one that is very disappointed and unhappy. I received the same noticed today for another 2-6 months delay, I wish I could understand the whole thing and how the businesses have changed just from a decade or so ago.
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I think part of the issue is that the 390 is a certified engine used in Cirrus SR20 training aircraft. We Vans builders are only one part of the demand pool for that engine. Our production slots are allocated, I'm sure, and since no one else produces the engine, we have to wait our turn. Add in the still disrupted supply chain too.

As much as I hate to say it, I want and expect Lycoming to take its time, get it right so I have a reliable engine when I finally get it. We don't need any more LCP-like fiascos.
 
Mark Dickens said:
Just got this from Vans:

"Thank you for purchasing your Lycoming engine through Van’s Aircraft.

We want you to know that Lycoming notified us last week that “due to a temporary crankshaft forging shortage” IO-390 engine production is being rescheduled. The impact to you is anticipated to be a 2-6 month delay from the initial delivery estimates provided to us and conveyed to you.

However, we understand that production on other models may shift as a result of this, so non-IO-390 engines may be completed sooner than originally expected.

If you ordered an IO-390 from us: Your delivery will be delayed by 2-6 months.

If you ordered another model of Lycoming from us: Your delivery date might be sooner than first estimated.

Over the next 2-3 days, we will be updating the Kit Status Portal with new shipment estimates as we get them from Lycoming. Please check there to see the most current information. By design, the Kit Status Portal will send you a notification when estimated delivery dates change for any of your open orders; this will be no exception.

Of course, you can always reach our kit-sales team via email or call 503-678-6545. We appreciate your business, and will update you soon."

And yet another reason to avoid the 390 if at all possible!
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I ordered my YIO-390-EXP Thunderbolt on April 7, 2023. On October 28, 2024 I received the email asking me to notify Vans if would I be willing and able to pay should an earlier slot open up. I replied "yes". Never heard anything else on that.

My last update (prior to yesterday's email) was on 12/12/25 and the projected delivery date was 3/12/26. I was within the 120 days where all the previous update emails said Vans would request payment. I never received a payment request. I emailed Vans on Jan. 17 and received a reply on the 19th from Kits Status saying they had reduced the payment time frame to 60 days. I was already within 60 days of my delivery date so I was expecting a notice any day. No word until yesterday's disappointing announcement.

Unfortunately, I am ready for the engine so most of the additional wait for the engine I will be twiddling my thumbs. Like some others, I'm old enough to where every building and flying day is precious. I don't fault Lycoming or Vans. I understand it's a supply chain issue. Still.....
 
TS Flightlines said:
The crankshaft vendor--anyone know who that is?
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According to the video in the first post of this thread;
-The cylinder heads come from an Eck industries foundry
-The crank cases are cast and machined by Kurt Mfg
-The cams & Crank come from Aviation Mfg Company (a division of Callies Performance)

New Lycoming YouTube video

Thought I'd share this interesting new YouTube video from Lycoming: Lycoming video
vansairforce.net
 
Dan 57 said:
already pitying those -15 builders who having built their airframes in a cinch will then be awaiting that TB 390 delivery date... not wanting to derail that thread, but I'd probably would be eyeing some other engine manufacturer...
Click to expand...

As a RV-15 builder It makes me wonder when one should be ordering an engine. I would hate to be waiting for an engine but at the same time don't want it much before the rest of the airframe is completed. It's a bit of a guess when the rest of the kits will be released. I know Van's have published estimated dates.
 
Jetmart said:
As a RV-15 builder It makes me wonder when one should be ordering an engine. I would hate to be waiting for an engine but at the same time don't want it much before the rest of the airframe is completed. It's a bit of a guess when the rest of the kits will be released. I know Van's have published estimated dates.
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I'd think if one has the money ASAP is the answer. Letting it sit in the crate for a bit would probably be better than likely paying more in the future.
 
Jetmart said:
As a RV-15 builder It makes me wonder when one should be ordering an engine. I would hate to be waiting for an engine but at the same time don't want it much before the rest of the airframe is completed. It's a bit of a guess when the rest of the kits will be released. I know Van's have published estimated dates.
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I'm not sure the yardstick for you should be 'kits released' so much as an estimate on how your build speed will go and how close to kit release you actually order and get in line. I think Van's will be beating Lycoming by at least several months to a year on the kit shipments. We're looking at 24-30 months for a fresh Lycoming order, with Van's schedule having all the kits out by the first part of next year. As much as we want to point out Van's delays and shortcomings, they got -15 wing out within a few weeks of target, at least for the early orders.
 
Mark Dickens said:
Just got this from Vans:

"Thank you for purchasing your Lycoming engine through Van’s Aircraft.

We want you to know that Lycoming notified us last week that “due to a temporary crankshaft forging shortage” IO-390 engine production is being rescheduled. The impact to you is anticipated to be a 2-6 month delay from the initial delivery estimates provided to us and conveyed to you.

However, we understand that production on other models may shift as a result of this, so non-IO-390 engines may be completed sooner than originally expected.

If you ordered an IO-390 from us: Your delivery will be delayed by 2-6 months.

If you ordered another model of Lycoming from us: Your delivery date might be sooner than first estimated.

Over the next 2-3 days, we will be updating the Kit Status Portal with new shipment estimates as we get them from Lycoming. Please check there to see the most current information. By design, the Kit Status Portal will send you a notification when estimated delivery dates change for any of your open orders; this will be no exception.

Of course, you can always reach our kit-sales team via email or call 503-678-6545. We appreciate your business, and will update you soon."

And yet another reason to avoid the 390 if at all possible!
Click to expand...
Ordered RV15 engine 08-05-2025.
 
Mark Dickens said:
I think part of the issue is that the 390 is a certified engine used in Cirrus SR20 training aircraft. We Vans builders are only one part of the demand pool for that engine. Our production slots are allocated, I'm sure, and since no one else produces the engine, we have to wait our turn. Add in the still disrupted supply chain too.

As much as I hate to say it, I want and expect Lycoming to take its time, get it right so I have a reliable engine when I finally get it. We don't need any more LCP-like fiascos.
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At $80+K which was only $40+K just a few years ago, producing a reliable engine ought to be the lease they can do. I am so fed up that I maybe willing to walk away from them if they would give me my deposit back which they have been holding onto for long. Businesses did not use to run in this fashion.
 
N8DAV8R said:
I'm not sure the yardstick for you should be 'kits released' so much as an estimate on how your build speed will go and how close to kit release you actually order and get in line. I think Van's will be beating Lycoming by at least several months to a year on the kit shipments. We're looking at 24-30 months for a fresh Lycoming order, with Van's schedule having all the kits out by the first part of next year. As much as we want to point out Van's delays and shortcomings, they got -15 wing out within a few weeks of target, at least for the early orders.
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Bavafa said:
At $80+K which was only $40+K just a few years ago, producing a reliable engine ought to be the lease they can do. I am so fed up that I maybe willing to walk away from them if they would give me my deposit back which they have been holding onto for long. Businesses did not use to run in this fashion.
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No, they didn't and operating as they do, in my opinion, is not ethical and certainly not in the best interests of the customer (us)...
 
taking into consideration the regular price increases of those engines, ordering whatever Lyco model now could be considered as a serious investment, probably safer than some other stuff... will there be a bubble burst or market saturation in say 10 years from now? Difficult to say...
 
Mark Dickens said:
No, they didn't and operating as they do, in my opinion, is not ethical and certainly not in the best interests of the customer (us)...
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I should add that my comments in re ethics address their deposit policy only. A better way of doing this is to sell non-refundable production slots and only ask for order deposits when production is scheduled. It's clear that Lycoming does not have any material allocated to my engine order and aside from paperwork processing, Vans has no financial impact. If I wanted to back out of my engine order at this point, I should be allowed to do that without a financial hit outside of the production slot sale...just my opinion
 
I received this email as well. It’ll be interesting to see when my straight up butt ugly 0320 gets completed. I ordered the engine July 14, 2025. Originally had a ship date of May 27. It got moved to February and then moved again, to October of this year. Be curious to see if that moves up any.
 
I’m sure I’m getting mine delayed also. It’s supposed to be ready this spring for my io-390. What other businesses out there ask for all the money for an item and not know when they are going to be able to satisfy the order? Or send out a partial order that you have paid in full for and don’t know when your going to receive the back ordered parts.
 
Mark Dickens said:
I should add that my comments in re ethics address their deposit policy only. A better way of doing this is to sell non-refundable production slots and only ask for order deposits when production is scheduled. It's clear that Lycoming does not have any material allocated to my engine order and aside from paperwork processing, Vans has no financial impact. If I wanted to back out of my engine order at this point, I should be allowed to do that without a financial hit outside of the production slot sale...just my opinion
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I can see that going the same route as vanity N Numbers... some guy with money to burn buys all the slots and sells them at a premium.
 
Jetmart said:
As a RV-15 builder It makes me wonder when one should be ordering an engine. I would hate to be waiting for an engine but at the same time don't want it much before the rest of the airframe is completed. It's a bit of a guess when the rest of the kits will be released. I know Van's have published estimated dates.
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We have the same discusion in our household - when to commit to an engine. On the one hand, you don’t want to wait and be the last in line. On the other, I have a gut instinct to wait until the final fuselage comes out so that we can weigh the pluses and minuses (W&B, installation clearances, engine mount configuration, etc…) between various engine choices. Yes, although it is designed around an IO-390, there are probably other engines that will work fine as well…but we won’t know that until the final design comes out.

And so….we debate….
 
Does anyone have any data points on the IO540? Trying to decide when to pull the trigger and right now the plan is waiting for the off chance there is even the slightest SnF discount.. If not then moving forward.
 
Ironflight said:
We have the same discusion in our household - when to commit to an engine. On the one hand, you don’t want to wait and be the last in one. On the other, I have a gut instinct to wait until the final fuselage comes out so that we can weigh the pluses and minuses (W&B, installation clearances, engine mount configuration, etc…) between various engine choices. Yes, although it is designed around an IO-390, there are probably other engines that will work fine as well…but we won’t know that until the final design comes out.

And so….we debate….
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This is about where I am on the engine for the -15, along with not really being in a position to fund the deposit in good conscience. Money, and the fact we don't have a final fuselage design is a good enough reason to defer the decision until later this year. I'm hoping that a little more viable option comes up along the way, which could mean either a lower cost or even just a less risky lead time. I'm glad I have an airplane to fly, and even more glad to just be building again so I avoid thinking too much about this engine concern.
 
JeffPeters said:
Does anyone have any data points on the IO540? Trying to decide when to pull the trigger and right now the plan is waiting for the off chance there is even the slightest SnF discount.. If not then moving forward.
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1) It's a pretty safe assumption the PP prices will increase faster than inflation.

2) Not that hard to keep an engine preserved/dissicated.

Just sayin'
 
Dan 57 said:
already pitying those -15 builders who having built their airframes in a cinch will then be awaiting that TB 390 delivery date... not wanting to derail that thread, but I'd probably would be eyeing some other engine manufacturer...
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OH IO-540...then maybe DH...
 
Jjackh10 said:
They accomplished this by delaying any order that wasn't an RV-15 wing. Is that going to be the strategy going forward?
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Maybe?
ryane67 said:
So true.
In-stock parts orders not moving for 40 days while they are shipping15 wing kits as fast as possible. smh.
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I had a very important parts order stuck during that too. That part was unsatisfactory.

The thread is about Lycoming, not Van's. My comment was meant to point out a relevant fact to the question that was raised about how this latest delay would impact decision making for RV-15 builders. It was not meant to change the subject to Van's shipping challenges, there is plenty of that to go around in other places.
 
It's all about cash flow. Kind of like the contractor you hire to build a house, but never gets around to finishing out the punch list because there's no more cash in it. When you order online, they get paid immediately and shipping the wing kits as the priority allows getting into the deposit cookie jar sooner. I believe they are under capitalized and can't get financing at a good rate because of the bankruptcy....just a guess
 
N8DAV8R said:
The thread is about Lycoming, not Van's. My comment was meant to point out a relevant fact to the question that was raised about how this latest delay would impact decision making for RV-15 builders. It was not meant to change the subject to Van's shipping challenges, there is plenty of that to go around in other places.
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Sorry about that, when you're caught up in both delays like I am it feels pretty crappy and any outlet to vent tends to be used.
 
bertschb said:
Oh my gosh. I guess you have the worst case scenario. Is your engine a Thunderbolt? I hope you "only" have a two month delay since you've already paid in full.
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It is a Thunderbolt. I have supported Vans issues up to just prior to receiving the email this evening. I can honestly say trust for Vans Aircraft is gone. The fact that the announcement was sent by an Aaron Spots, VP of sales and still has Greg Hughes’s e-mail is totally unacceptable for a Company in the size of Vans Aircraft.
skelrad said:
Being mad at Vans seems a little misplaced. Lycoming is who is missing delivery dates.
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For Vans to say that “ the engine is expected to be delivered in one month, therefore full payment must be received within 14 days”. I would think that Lycoming has provided information to the expected day of delivery.
skelrad said:
Being mad at Vans seems a little misplaced. Lycoming is who is missing delivery dates.
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You are absolutely correct, my apologies. Receiving the notice at 10 pm last night did not help me at all. Thanks for your comment
 
Mark Dickens said:
It's all about cash flow. Kind of like the contractor you hire to build a house, but never gets around to finishing out the punch list because there's no more cash in it. When you order online, they get paid immediately and shipping the wing kits as the priority allows getting into the deposit cookie jar sooner. I believe they are under capitalized and can't get financing at a good rate because of the bankruptcy....just a guess
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So you believe they are once again using the Lycoming engine deposits as operating capital? They did that with about $5 million in Lycoming deposits pre-bankruptcy. I certainly hope they aren’t repeating the same now…
 
N10KE said:
So you believe they are once again using the Lycoming engine deposits as operating capital? They did that with about $5 million in Lycoming deposits pre-bankruptcy. I certainly hope they aren’t repeating the same now…
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We were told that Lycoming engine deposits would be held in an escrow, however that may have just been during bankruptcy.
 
With well over 100 RV15 kits sold, the majority of which will use an IO-390 (just a guess), the market and timing is probably only going to get worse.

I have not ordered mine yet as I was hoping to bundle the prop and save $1000. Tough part is they are shipping so quickly. I don't know that I see a solution for that one, either...
 
N10KE said:
So you believe they are once again using the Lycoming engine deposits as operating capital? They did that with about $5 million in Lycoming deposits pre-bankruptcy. I certainly hope they aren’t repeating the same now…
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I'm not saying that at all. I'm basically saying that, in the same way sharks swim toward the smell of blood, businesses will prioritize activities that generate cash flow sooner than later...and I'm not saying they are doing this, but the temptation would be there
 
To be a little clearer, if I was running things and we were short on cash and I could unlock those deposits by shipping more orders out faster, I'd pull almost everyone off of what they were doing for a short while to maximize that activity. If some already paid for orders, say from online orders had to wait a few extra days, well that would be a temptation.

The new Lycoming delay is bad for Vans too since it ties up those deposits longer than planned
 
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