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Akzo Supplier

M

mweidman

Member
Hello,

A couple of Akzo questions I was hoping for some assistance with:
  1. What is the difference between the various versions of Akzo primers? In reading the Akzo website a number of them seem to be quite similar but I have to imagine there is a material difference. E.g., Aircraft Spruce only sells 463-12-8 / CA-116. SkyGeek also sells the same for $114 less than Spruce; but SkyGeek also carries 10P4-2NF / EC-117S for even cheaper than that ($210).
  2. Any suggestions on how to source it, possibly locally? I checked the Akzo suppliers page, there don't appear to be any listed in Illinois. I'm currently leaning towards the 463-12-8 / CA-116 listed on SkyGeek for $399.
  3. Is HVLP spray gun the best way to go? I do not have an air compressor rated for the proper CFM but as others have suggested I think I can get away with interior priming by doing short bursts. Or would LVLP / conventional spray gun work for Akzo?

TIA
 
HVLP

I can't comment on Akzo. Never used it.
I have sprayed a lot of paint including 2K epoxy with a very old 20Gal, 5HP Craftsman. It works. Spray. Move parts. Spray.
I love my Harbor Fright Black Widow HVLP HTE gun but I suspect the cheap Purple gun would spray Akzo just fine.
 
I can attest that the cheap purple Harbor Freight gun sprays AKZO just fine. I have a modest-sized compressor and have never had an issue.

I would be interested to know the differences of the various products and which one(s) would be most desirable for interior priming.
 
From AkzoNobel TDS:

463-12-18: A chemically cured, two-component epoxy primer designed to provide maximum protection from various chemicals, hydraulic fluids, aviation fuels, phosphate ester (Skydrol®) fluids and corrosion causing media.

10P4-3NF: A chemically cured epoxy primer that provides excellent corrosion and chemical resistance for aircraft detail and subassembly parts. When used as the base primer for specification approved epoxy and polyurethane topcoats, the primer/topcoat system provides the optimum protection for interior structural components. This product adheres well to a variety of substrates.

I'm sure they both work well for our applications. I chose to use 10P4-3NF largely because I knew of its use on various Boeing and other up-market military and civil aircraft, particularly for corrosion protection. Also, it may be slightly less likely toxic through skin contact. In use, they both need full PPE. Finally, I prefer its colour :)
 
mweidman said:
Hello,

A couple of Akzo questions I was hoping for some assistance with:
  1. What is the difference between the various versions of Akzo primers? In reading the Akzo website a number of them seem to be quite similar but I have to imagine there is a material difference. E.g., Aircraft Spruce only sells 463-12-8 / CA-116. SkyGeek also sells the same for $114 less than Spruce; but SkyGeek also carries 10P4-2NF / EC-117S for even cheaper than that ($210).
  2. Any suggestions on how to source it, possibly locally? I checked the Akzo suppliers page, there don't appear to be any listed in Illinois. I'm currently leaning towards the 463-12-8 / CA-116 listed on SkyGeek for $399.
  3. Is HVLP spray gun the best way to go? I do not have an air compressor rated for the proper CFM but as others have suggested I think I can get away with interior priming by doing short bursts. Or would LVLP / conventional spray gun work for Akzo?

TIA
Click to expand...

I purchased from Aircraft Spruce. They do have a Chicago location now, but I don’t know if it’s open for walk in sales.
 
I've gone through a few of the cheap HF guns and they work fine for Akzo primer. I buy the ones with a gauge so I can check the pressure. For around $20 they are pretty hard to beat. I keep a spare. They do go on sale from time to time so you can be on the lookout for that too. I use lacquer thinner to clean them and it works well. I have a craftsman compressor that seems to be adequate. Sure a bigger compressor would be better, but mine works well enough for priming.

One thing to know in case you don't already know it is that the pressures quoted are when the trigger is pulled. Do some quick checks on some cardboard or an old crate to make sure you are getting proper atomization. Remember you are just priming as a protective coating so it doesn't need to be perfect. It's also a good way to practice your painting technique. Akzo dries quickly if you don't put on too thick of a coat. If you find its taking a while to dry you are probably putting in on too thickly.
 
Perhaps the best thing about the 10P4-2NF/EC-117S is that SkyGeek has it in quarts.

The stuff is expensive, and a two-gallon kit is enough to prime several airplanes. Any body have any additional info on the differences? And why only one of them is available in quarts?
 
What is the smallest size compressor to use for just priming interior?
Will be building RV-12
Tom
 
scsmith said:
a two-gallon kit is enough to prime several airplanes
Click to expand...

That is most definitely not what happened when I built the -7A. I have no idea how a person could make a 2 gallon kit last multiple airplanes if used to prime the full interior of the aircraft.
 
jcarne said:
That is most definitely not what happened when I built the -7A. I have no idea how a person could make a 2 gallon kit last multiple airplanes if used to prime the full interior of the aircraft.
Click to expand...

Interior of control surfaces, wings and aft fuselage parts that are alclad and not exposed to any wear get a very light coat. A bit more than a mist coat, but very little. Non-alclad parts get one medium coat - enough to form a consistent film.

For the fuselage interior that is visible and/or exposed to wear, I used PPG system including a self-etching primer, so I did not use AKZO on that.

Thats how a gallon or so will do a whole airplane.
 
jcarne said:
That is most definitely not what happened when I built the -7A. I have no idea how a person could make a 2 gallon kit last multiple airplanes if used to prime the full interior of the aircraft.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not gonna happen with the way I prime….
 
Brantel said:
Yeah, not gonna happen with the way I prime….
Click to expand...

Yes, I primed everything, inside and out, and used two and a half two-gallon kits.

I'm certainly a below-average spray painter, with plenty of overspray and waste, but I didn't apply it too thickly. See examples.

I was worried about corrosion of components sitting in the workshop (a farm shed, in a warm, humid climate and dusty environment, surrounded on three sides by salt water and less than a km from Australia's largest coastal salt lake). Although I stored the as-received parts in what seemed to be clean, well-ventilated racking, I still found plenty of minor corrosion after a year or so when I came to un-rack components for construction. After priming with AzkoNobel 10P4-3NF the problem went away.
 

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dmn056 said:
Yes, I primed everything, inside and out, and used two and a half two-gallon kits.

I'm certainly a below-average spray painter, with plenty of overspray and waste, but I didn't apply it too thickly. See examples.

I was worried about corrosion of components sitting in the workshop (a farm shed, in a warm, humid climate and dusty environment, surrounded on three sides by salt water and less than a km from Australia's largest coastal salt lake). Although I stored the as-received parts in what seemed to be clean, well-ventilated racking, I still found plenty of minor corrosion after a year or so when I came to un-rack components for construction. After priming with AzkoNobel 10P4-3NF the problem went away.
Click to expand...

Exactly how much it took me too.
 
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