Flying the RV 8, how about the 14

[Moeggeploeg]

Recent postings on flying/landing the RV 8 got me wondering what speeds/configurations/trim/flaps/prop RPM etc you use flying your -14.

Descend settings for RPM/MP/flap say for ex. 500 fpm descent rate?
Speed, settings for downwind, base, short final?
Power off landings or carry some power?

Entry speeds, pitch, G pull for aileron rolls and loops. Tim O wrote a bit on the latter some time ago.

Your feedback much appreciated.

 

[mturnerb]

I use numbers from Mike Seager which work well and I've adapted my pattern / approach numbers somewhat from his.

Takeoff full power and RPM. Established in climb and above 700 feet or so, reduce RPM to 2500 and power to 25". Cruise 2300 RPM, 23" (sometimes I'll push that up but little gained for the fuel flow increase).

Approaching the pattern, 2300 RPM/16" which is around 120 - 130Kts. To slow down entering the pattern, power back to 12" or so, hold altitude until indicated airspeed is 100kts, first notch of flaps (-3 to 0 degrees). Either now or established on downwind, I push prop full forward and complete GUMPS check including brake check/fuel pump/mixture.

Entering downwind (or midfield if in pattern after takeoff), trim for 95 kts or so, prop full forward, power to maintain pattern altitude.

Abeam the numbers, second notch (15 degrees) flaps, 1800RPM, trim for 85 kts. This will give you a descent rate of about 500FPM. Turning base, last notch of flaps (30 degrees), trim and maintain 75. Turning final, adjust power to maintain desired glideslope and speed - 75kts. I've gotten comfortable slowing to 70 or so on short final depending on wind.

Some folks will prefer last notch of flaps turning final but I try to fly it tighter so I like to get that out of the way. I fly at a towered field: my "patterns" are often non-standard so I adjust accordingly.

 

[KleensRV6]

Try it with an AOA

If you have an AOA calibrated check your AOA, particularly base to final. You may be surprised at your numbers.

 

[mturnerb]

If you have an AOA calibrated check your AOA, particularly base to final. You may be surprised at your numbers.

My AOA "comes alive" as I slow to 70-75kts and gives a nice indication of lift reserve as I slow over the runway.

 

[Moeggeploeg]

RV 14 speeds

Thanks for the feed back.
Some numbers to get going. Needs fine tuning for sure.

Cruise: 23" MP/2300 RPM, Fuel flow 9 GPH. Flaps: minus 3 degrees.
Descending: MP 16"/2300.
Slowing to the pattern: MP 15"/2300/pitch for 110-120 kts then 95 kts.
Abeam the touch down: Throttle to idle, Pitch for 75 kts, Mix rich, Flaps to 15 degrees (as soon as under Vfe 100 kts) and feed the Throttle in to 1800 RPM, trim.
45 degrees: Prop full forward, Flaps to 30 degrees and start descending turn for base leg.
Power closed as RWY made. Fly 75 kts down to leveling out.
Take off: Flaps zero (15 degrees for short or grass), Mix full rich, Prop FWD, WOT. Pitch 12.5 degrees, Vy 95 kts.
Climb out: 25/2500 RPM, Flaps to zero.

 

[mturnerb]

Thanks for the feed back.
Some numbers to get going. Needs fine tuning for sure.

Cruise: 23" MP/2300 RPM, Fuel flow 9 GPH. Flaps: minus 3 degrees.
Descending: MP 16"/2300.
Slowing to the pattern: MP 15"/2300/pitch for 110-120 kts then 95 kts.
Abeam the touch down: Throttle to idle, Pitch for 75 kts, Mix rich, Flaps to 15 degrees (as soon as under Vfe 100 kts) and feed the Throttle in to 1800 RPM, trim.
45 degrees: Prop full forward, Flaps to 30 degrees and start descending turn for base leg.
Power closed as RWY made. Fly 75 kts down to leveling out.
Take off: Flaps zero (15 degrees for short or grass), Mix full rich, Prop FWD, WOT. Pitch 12.5 degrees, Vy 95 kts.
Climb out: 25/2500 RPM, Flaps to zero.

Excellent post - I forgot to mention flaps and flap retraction on takeoff. I have switched between around 10 degrees flaps and no flaps on takeoff, still trying to decide which I like better. We have slightly different techniques in pattern but similar power and speed settings. I'm going to try it your way when I get her out of the paint shop...

 

[bkervaski]

That 75kts on final really makes a difference. It lands like a butterfly at that speed. I spent my first 50 hours landing too fast.

 

[Nova RV]

90 kts downwind flaps 0, 80 kts base flaps 15, 70kts final flaps 30.

Easy peasy with prop and mixture full fwd entering downwind so not a lot of rpm or manifold pressure numbers to memorize. Prop fwd and adjust power to maintain desired speeds.

 

[paszekj]

Old thread I realize but this was some useful information for me. I have a 14A with a 3-blade MT CS prop. I love the prop. I realize I probably give up a few knots at top speed but it climbs great, is super smooth in flight, and I get great fuel economy. However, on final with no power it drops like a rock. I try to maintain 75kts but if I don’t carry any power, my vertical descent is too high and I drop in pretty hard. Thus I usually end up carrying a little power that I take out when I begin my round out to lessen my vertical descent.

I of course have my prop full forward on final as I’ve always been taught but it feels like a speed brake. Would it be a terrible idea to back off and be more in the 24- 2500 range on final? I realize I’d have to remember to push it full forward if I needed to do a go-around and there’s the potential I could forget that in a sticky situation. I feel like it would still climb great at 24-2500 but could that be a potential concern for causing damage if I were to climb out at full power & RPM around 2400?

I’d plan to experiment a bit and see what setting seems to work best but I figured if this is a bad idea maybe I shouldn’t even bother. Appreciate any advice!

 

[lipper03]

As a data point, my Dakota (O-540) is limited to 2400 rpm per the design for HP limitation to 235HP, so it runs all the time at takeoff "oversquare" so I'm not a square it up person to begin with.

The YIO-390-EXP doesn't have a performance chart that I can find, but the IO-390-A1A does, and it does not have a limit on RPM and MP, so my guess is the EXP would be very similar to this chart below, but that's not official, so take it with a grain of salt.

I think the only thing that is happening at 24-2500RPM is that you are taking off or going around with less then full horsepower, but unless it's needed for extreme performance conditions, our 14s do have horsepower to spare. (like a normal length runway, and not a mountain at the end, no issues with 24-2500 rpm, but if going around in the mountains, at a high DA day, fully loaded, in the rain etc, you better do some thinking)

If anything, I don't see an issue with the engine side, smooth throttle application would be good to do.

Something I'll keep in mind when I get my 14A flying soon.

 

[Ironflight]

Old thread I realize but this was some useful information for me. I have a 14A with a 3-blade MT CS prop. I love the prop. I realize I probably give up a few knots at top speed but it climbs great, is super smooth in flight, and I get great fuel economy. However, on final with no power it drops like a rock. I try to maintain 75kts but if I don’t carry any power, my vertical descent is too high and I drop in pretty hard. Thus I usually end up carrying a little power that I take out when I begin my round out to lessen my vertical descent.

I of course have my prop full forward on final as I’ve always been taught but it feels like a speed brake. Would it be a terrible idea to back off and be more in the 24- 2500 range on final? I realize I’d have to remember to push it full forward if I needed to do a go-around and there’s the potential I could forget that in a sticky situation. I feel like it would still climb great at 24-2500 but could that be a potential concern for causing damage if I were to climb out at full power & RPM around 2400?

I’d plan to experiment a bit and see what setting seems to work best but I figured if this is a bad idea maybe I shouldn’t even bother. Appreciate any advice!

The new WW-330 on my F1 Rocket has much broader blades than the 300 on my -3 and -8, and I was surprised by how much extra drag I get at full pitch in the pattern., Yes, it stops RIGHT NOW in full forward pitch on downwind. So I’m using 2500 in the pattern. If I have to go around? Well the Rocket will fly with about 30% power….but the truth is, as I move the throttle forward for a go-around, my hand is going to be right there on the Prop lever as well. A single engine airplane is really easy to manage - and an RV has enough power that if you forget, you’ll never know it.

Now if I can just convince our neighbors with their C-185’s that they don’t need full forward prop for take-off when they are alone with no baggage and its 0600 in the morning…..