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MOSAIC Repairman Certificate classes

GalinHdz said:
I AM CONFUSED!! Has anything changed that prevents a current EAB owner (Not the builder) to keep doing maintenance and changes, that do not affect the airworthiness certificate, without doing some kind of official "repairman" course? Example; replace "steam gauges" with "EFIS" gauges. :unsure:
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Simple.... You can do anything, BUT the Condition Inspection.
Nothing has changed.
 
GalinHdz said:
I AM CONFUSED!! Has anything changed that prevents a current EAB owner (Not the builder) to keep doing maintenance and changes, that do not affect the airworthiness certificate, without doing some kind of official "repairman" course? Example; replace "steam gauges" with "EFIS" gauges. :unsure:
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No, it just adds a category of individuals authorized to sign off the condition inspection if allowed by your operating limitations.
 
This is a great thread. I have concerns about the LSR-I class teaching people to maintain a LSA's. Now they are teaching people to maintain every EAB out there? The classes do not and can not cover LSA's, much less an RV-4/-6/-7/-8/-9/-10/-14/-15. All Van's planes meet the 59/61 kt speed limits.***

I have first hand experience with LSR-I / Repairman / Maintainers. I am shocked how little they teach in 16 hours, like how to do compression test. Like anything E-AB or E-LSA or S-LSA it is about learning. Some people don't learn or seek help.

My opinion, recommendation, is 1st condition inspection on any E-AB and S/E-LSA plane by a first time Repairman/LSR-I, it should be with a qualified supervision and review, holds A&P or LSRM and completed Condition Inspections (more than one) on that make and model. The exception is prior experience and log books of planes you maintained as Repairman.... As some one said just because you built it, put slot A into slot B does not mean you understand maintenance, log book entries.

Saw a log book from a LSR-I and nothing was signed, missing hours and logged work. Hey I get it. They are learning. At some point they need to learn however or they will be in for a rude awakening if and when they try and sell their plane.

*** Rule:
Vo {S0} is 61 knots for aircraft to be considered LSA
V1 of 59 KCAS or less (LSA Pilot or Private without medical)
This means there will be aircraft certified as LSAs that Sport Pilots are not legally permitted to fly.
 
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jackking123 said:
This is a great thread. I have concerns about the LSR-I class teaching people to maintain a LSA's. Now they are teaching people to maintain every EAB out there? The classes do not and can not cover LSA's, much less an RV-4/-6/-7/-8/-9/-10/-14/-15. All Van's planes meet the 59/61 kt speed limits.***

I have first hand experience with LSR-I / Repairman / Maintainers. I am shocked how little they teach in 16 hours, like how to do compression test. Like anything E-AB or E-LSA or S-LSA it is about learning. Some people don't learn or seek help.

My opinion, recommendation, is 1st condition inspection on any E-AB and S/E-LSA plane by a first time Repairman/LSR-I, it should be with a qualified supervision and review, holds A&P or LSRM and completed Condition Inspections (more than one) on that make and model. The exception is prior experience and log books of planes you maintained as Repairman.... As some one said just because you built it, put slot A into slot B does not mean you understand maintenance, log book entries.

Saw a log book from a LSR-I and nothing was signed, missing hours and logged work. Hey I get it. They are learning. At some point they need to learn however or they will be in for a rude awakening if and when they try and sell their plane.

*** Rule:
Vo {S0} is 61 knots for aircraft to be considered LSA
V1 of 59 KCAS or less (LSA Pilot or Private without medical)
This means there will be aircraft certified as LSAs that Sport Pilots are not legally permitted to fly.
Click to expand...
I like your suggestions for new LSR-I’s.
I very much view my new LSR-I certification as “a license to learn”, and will be doing my first condition inspection along with an A&P buddy.
Then I’ll have him (at least) “check my work” on the next one. I truly appreciate the ability to do the inspections on my airplane, but being ALLOWED to and knowing HOW to are certainly two different things.
 
jackking123 said:
This is a great thread. I have concerns about the LSR-I class teaching people to maintain a LSA's. Now they are teaching people to maintain every EAB out there? The classes do not and can not cover LSA's, much less an RV-4/-6/-7/-8/-9/-10/-14/-15. All Van's planes meet the 59/61 kt speed limits.***

I have first hand experience with LSR-I / Repairman / Maintainers. I am shocked how little they teach in 16 hours, like how to do compression test. Like anything E-AB or E-LSA or S-LSA it is about learning. Some people don't learn or seek help.

My opinion, recommendation, is 1st condition inspection on any E-AB and S/E-LSA plane by a first time Repairman/LSR-I, it should be with a qualified supervision and review, holds A&P or LSRM and completed Condition Inspections (more than one) on that make and model. The exception is prior experience and log books of planes you maintained as Repairman.... As some one said just because you built it, put slot A into slot B does not mean you understand maintenance, log book entries.

Saw a log book from a LSR-I and nothing was signed, missing hours and logged work. Hey I get it. They are learning. At some point they need to learn however or they will be in for a rude awakening if and when they try and sell their plane.

*** Rule:
Vo {S0} is 61 knots for aircraft to be considered LSA
V1 of 59 KCAS or less (LSA Pilot or Private without medical)
This means there will be aircraft certified as LSAs that Sport Pilots are not legally permitted to fly.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you!
 
jackking123 said:
This is a great thread. I have concerns about the LSR-I class teaching people to maintain a LSA's. Now they are teaching people to maintain every EAB out there? The classes do not and can not cover LSA's, much less an RV-4/-6/-7/-8/-9/-10/-14/-15. All Van's planes meet the 59/61 kt speed limits.***

I have first hand experience with LSR-I / Repairman / Maintainers. I am shocked how little they teach in 16 hours, like how to do compression test. Like anything E-AB or E-LSA or S-LSA it is about learning. Some people don't learn or seek help.

My opinion, recommendation, is 1st condition inspection on any E-AB and S/E-LSA plane by a first time Repairman/LSR-I, it should be with a qualified supervision and review, holds A&P or LSRM and completed Condition Inspections (more than one) on that make and model. The exception is prior experience and log books of planes you maintained as Repairman.... As some one said just because you built it, put slot A into slot B does not mean you understand maintenance, log book entries.

Saw a log book from a LSR-I and nothing was signed, missing hours and logged work. Hey I get it. They are learning. At some point they need to learn however or they will be in for a rude awakening if and when they try and sell their plane.

*** Rule:
Vo {S0} is 61 knots for aircraft to be considered LSA
V1 of 59 KCAS or less (LSA Pilot or Private without medical)
This means there will be aircraft certified as LSAs that Sport Pilots are not legally permitted to fly.
Click to expand...
I certainly do not want to start a disagreement, however, the course was never about maintenance. This is just what we learned so it's not that I am stating this.. it's what we were taught in the class. The instructor made that VERY clear that the course is about inspection, its even in the title. We tend to forget that inspection and maintenance have always been 2 different things. The sample our instructor used was this:
Before MOSAIC could someone who owns an experimental airplane have their 5 year old kid build them an engine? Or change the timing on that engine? or whatever else?
It was certainly a trick question but the answer is Yes. Anyone can maintain and work on an Experimental airplane and make any modifications they choose to make, HOWEVER, the twist is that only an aircraft mechanic or the builder of that experimental aircraft can inspect and certify that the aircraft is airworthy.
So, this has always been about Inspection. Personally, I'm still going to get help from my local A&P for items that are beyond my capabilities to fix and maintain. I've always done that and I alway will. It's just now, if I deem my aircraft is airworthy after my inspection, I can legal make that decision and entry in the logbook.
 
I was very supportive of many of the rule changes within “MOSAIC” - but even pre-MOSAIC, I was always surprised that a non-builder was deemed capable of doing a condition inspection on a LS after a short 16 hour course. And in reading the rule during the comment period for MOSAIC, my thought was SURELY they must mean that the LSR-I was an add-on AFTER taking the LSR-M. But nope.

So, the rule is in place. As some have stated, it’s a license to learn. Having sat through enough “Are Your Nuts Tight” seminars, I think there’s a ton of learning that is important to do this right. While by background and experience I’m pretty capable, I plan on taking the LSR-M to add an even better depth of knowledge. But even then, that’s just a start. I’m always seeking knowledge.
 
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As I have said before. Light sport pilot’s have been able to take these courses for many years now and perform condition inspections on their LSA aircraft and yet their planes haven’t been falling out of the sky. That is why MOASiC was passed!
 
jackking123 said:
All Van's planes meet the 59/61 kt speed limits.***

*** Rule:
V1 of 59 KCAS or less (LSA Pilot or Private without medical)
Click to expand...

Not according to Van's Aircraft:

"More RVs qualify for Sport Pilot operations: If your aircraft has a clean stall speed (VS1) at or below 59 knots, you may now be eligible to operate it under Sport Pilot privileges, including using a driver’s license medical for daytime VFR flight. All existing RV models save for the RV-14 and RV-10 meet this threshold. "​

Ref:
www.vansaircraft.com

What MOSAIC Means for RV Owners - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes

The FAA’s biggest regulatory shift in 20 years is here. Here’s what actually changes and what doesn’t. The FAA’s Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certification rule, known as MOSAIC, took effect in phases beginning October 2025. Aviation media has called it the most significant...
www.vansaircraft.com www.vansaircraft.com
 
RV8JD said:
Not according to Van's Aircraft:

"More RVs qualify for Sport Pilot operations: If your aircraft has a clean stall speed (VS1) at or below 59 knots, you may now be eligible to operate it under Sport Pilot privileges, including using a driver’s license medical for daytime VFR flight. All existing RV models save for the RV-14 and RV-10 meet this threshold. "​

Ref:
www.vansaircraft.com

What MOSAIC Means for RV Owners - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes

The FAA’s biggest regulatory shift in 20 years is here. Here’s what actually changes and what doesn’t. The FAA’s Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certification rule, known as MOSAIC, took effect in phases beginning October 2025. Aviation media has called it the most significant...
www.vansaircraft.com www.vansaircraft.com
Click to expand...

Van Inc can be wrong sometimes. It is possible Van said this early on before MOSAIC was fully understood. Your Link does not contradict what I said.

This mix bag of Vso and Vs1 and plane is LSA but can't be flown LSA pilot is confusing. What the FAA says matters primarily. Going by the following:

The Rule:
  • VS0 ≤ 61 Kts (Landing Configuration): Max stall spd (bottom of white arc) airplane meets Light-Sport category (flaps/landing gear extended).
  • VS1 ≤ 59 Kts (Clean Configuration): Max stall spd (bottom of green) flaps/landing gear retracted a LSA pilot can fly, if ALSO VS0 ≤ 61 Kts.
NOTE as stated previously a plane can be a LSA (Vso ≤ 61 kts) and flown by Pvt/Com/ATP with DL medical but a LSA pilot may not be able to fly if (Vs1> 59 kts).

RV-10 Speed: VS0 52 knots (bottom of the white arc). We agreed that is below 61kts?​
RV-10 Speed: Vs1 61 knots (bottom of the green arc_ We agree this is above 59 kts?​

Conclusion RV-10 is a LSA and can be flown by a (Pvt/Com/ATP) Pilot with DL medical, but can not be flown by a LSA pilot. The RV-10 is still a "LSA".

RV-14 Speed: VS0 51 knots (59 mph) (bottom of the white arc). You agreed that is below 61 kts?​
RV-14 Speed: Vs1 62 knots (70 mph). bottom of the green arc. You agree this is above 59 kts?​

Conclusion RV-14 is a LSA and can be flown by a (Pvt/Com/ATP) Pilot with DL medical, but can not be flown by a LSA pilot. The RV-14 is still a "LSA".

Where am I wrong? RV-10 and RV-14 meet the stall speed criteria to be a LSA, and they require a Pvt or high Pilot rating.

NOTE Van's link does not say RV-10 or RV-14 are disqualified as LSA's, does it?
 
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LSA means ELSA or SLSA, only the -12 meets the criteria. All the others are built as EAB. Sport Pilots can fly EAB, ELSA, SLSA, of Part 23 Certified so long as the plane meets the stall speed parameters. I currently fly a 1976 150 under sport pilot rules. LSA refers to airplanes certified by manufacturer under the ASTM rules versus FAA Type Certification.
 
From AOPA.....

Why are stall speeds different for sport pilots and light sport category aircraft?​

The limits for sport pilot privileges and light sport aircraft largely mirrored each other previously.

However, the new rules separated limits for both, including the maximum stall speed. Sport pilots are limited to aircraft with a stall speed of 59 knots calibrated airspeed without flaps, while aircraft can qualify as light sport category aircraft with stall speeds up to 61 KCAS with flaps.

The FAA explained that this allows light sport category aircraft to be certified “without regard to a specific grade of pilot certificate,” which is already the case for other aircraft categories. The agency believes this will make light sport category aircraft more desirable to the nearly 500,000 pilots who hold higher levels of pilot certificate.

It’s important to remember that while sport pilots will be able to fly aircraft with a much higher stall speed, they will not be able to fly every light-sport category aircraft.
 
jackking123 said:
Van Inc can be wrong sometimes. It is possible Van said this early on before MOSAIC was fully understood.
Conclusion RV-14 is a LSA and can be flown by a (Pvt/Com/ATP) Pilot with DL medical, but can not be flown by a LSA pilot. The RV-14 is still a "LSA".
Where am I wrong? RV-10 and RV-14 meet the stall speed criteria to be a LSA, and they require a Pvt or high Pilot rating.
NOTE Van's link does not say RV-10 or RV-14 are disqualified as LSA's, does it?
Click to expand...
Here.... https://www.vansaircraft.com/2025/10/hooray-for-sport-pilots-part-1-of-mosaic-now-active/
 
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jackking123 said:
Van Inc can be wrong sometimes. It is possible Van said this early on before MOSAIC was fully understood. Your Link does not contradict what I said.
Click to expand...
The article I linked was published recently, on March 24, 2026. Van's Aircraft's head of engineering, Rian Johnson, is also the chair of the ASTM F37 committee working on the new MOSAIC. They understand MOSAIC. I don’t think Van’s or Rian got it wrong.

And I have neither the will nor desire to correct your other misunderstandings.
 
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