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Slider vs Tip Up Ratio
- Thread starter BlakeB
- Start date
See, I always thought a tip up was simply the end result of ordering the wrong parts from Vans....same as an -A - ordered one too many gear legs and large tires so you had to do SOMETHING with them. 
Someone at Van's should have this answer based on the ratio of finish kits shipped.
bpattonsoa
Well Known Member
The ratio in my hanger is exactly one or infinity. Take your choice, it is up to you!
longranger
Well Known Member
IIRC, all of Vans' company 6/7/9's have been tippers.
Just a guess, but the tip up makes it easy to rig a front hinge release for ejection during extreme prototype testing. Maybe that is why the early models are tippers. Obviously that logic does not work for the 8. I wonder what mechanism was used for that canopy ejection? Was it not needed due to extreme testing previously done on others? Fodder for another thread.
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Unscientific
About 10 years ago I was at Oshkosh and counted all of 6/7/9's. The ratio was 4 to one Sliders to tip ups. Last year, I did a much more informal count and it was about 2.5 to 1 Slider to tip ups. I have no idea why there has been a decline in Sliders.
My first 7 was a tip up and I loved it. The benefits were a little better visibility than a slider, access to instruments and ease of getting in and out. Drawbacks. Not as good of airflow when taxiing, doesn't seal well up front, a little noisier, frame work tough to get right during building. There are a few other things others might come up with.
Slider good things. Easier to build (my opinion after building both), seals better, quieter, easier to load and unload baggage area, especially with the tip up/slider option, cooler when taxiing. Drawbacks, slightly less visibility, harder to get in and out, no direct access to instrument panel. Just a few thoughts.
You really can't go wrong with either one.
About 10 years ago I was at Oshkosh and counted all of 6/7/9's. The ratio was 4 to one Sliders to tip ups. Last year, I did a much more informal count and it was about 2.5 to 1 Slider to tip ups. I have no idea why there has been a decline in Sliders.
My first 7 was a tip up and I loved it. The benefits were a little better visibility than a slider, access to instruments and ease of getting in and out. Drawbacks. Not as good of airflow when taxiing, doesn't seal well up front, a little noisier, frame work tough to get right during building. There are a few other things others might come up with.
Slider good things. Easier to build (my opinion after building both), seals better, quieter, easier to load and unload baggage area, especially with the tip up/slider option, cooler when taxiing. Drawbacks, slightly less visibility, harder to get in and out, no direct access to instrument panel. Just a few thoughts.
You really can't go wrong with either one.
Neal@F14
Well Known Member
Just wondering what the extra weight of a slider is on say a 9 over the tip up.
Anyone know? I presume Vans uses the least weight in their advertising.
curtis
Well Known Member
I don't believe the weight would be too much different. The tipup has a complex latching mechanism where the slider has two aluminum roller tracks. The tipup also has the two hinge hinge points and jettison mechanisim, slider doesn't. There is different ribs behind the panel.
The slider may be just a little more, but I bet it isn't much.
The slider may be just a little more, but I bet it isn't much.
Tip up
Didn't know Vans offered an option . ( Show Planes does , not Vans )
( I was wrong and just trying to cover my tracks !!! )
Well, that wouldn't be correct
Didn't know Vans offered an option . ( Show Planes does , not Vans )
( I was wrong and just trying to cover my tracks !!! )
flyboy1963
Well Known Member
muddyin' the waters.........
....and then there's the -4's and -8's that have been turned into some kind of HR or F1 -EVO, and become slip-ups, or ti-ders, depending on your orientation!
....and then there's the -4's and -8's that have been turned into some kind of HR or F1 -EVO, and become slip-ups, or ti-ders, depending on your orientation!
vfrazier
Well Known Member
The slider's biggest disadvantages to me are:
The sliders do look nice, like a fighter jet.... but you'll notice that the newest jets all have tip ups now!
OTOH, I have a slider on the F1 Rocket and on the RV-6 in my shop. Sigh....
- more complicated to build
- a bit heavier due to the extra frame between the front and back halves
- reduced visibility due to the extra frame mentioned above
- more difficult to seal (in my opinion)
- more expensive
The sliders do look nice, like a fighter jet.... but you'll notice that the newest jets all have tip ups now!
OTOH, I have a slider on the F1 Rocket and on the RV-6 in my shop. Sigh....
No.
The RV-6 and 6A prototypes are tip-ups (the slider hadn't been developed yet)
The RV-9 and 9A prototypes are both sliders.
The RV-7 prototype (since converted to a 7A) is a tip-up.
The RV-7 transition trainer is a slider
ChiefPilot
Well Known Member
Recent fighter jets have tip ups - except they're hinged at the back and not the front. The F-35 isn't a real fighter jet, BTW
I'd quantify the visibility thing - tippers have better forward visibility, but much worse rearward visibility. Also, I don't think I've ever heard of a slider leaking onto avionics, so sealing would seem to favor the slider.
Recent fighter jets have tip ups - except they're hinged at the back and not the front. The F-35 isn't a real fighter jet, BTW
I'd quantify the visibility thing - tippers have better forward visibility, but much worse rearward visibility. Also, I don't think I've ever heard of a slider leaking onto avionics, so sealing would seem to favor the slider.
Most aircraft have "O" rear visibility. It's not an issue. But the things that can be hidden by that roll bar IS a big deal. I would never have a slider for that reason.
Sealing a tip has proven to be well within the capabilities of a kit builder....... If it leaks, it's because the builder did not seal it well enough.
curtis
Well Known Member
I have over 500 hours in my slider and have never had one time where I felt the rollbar hid any aircraft or objects and put me into an unsafe condition. It takes up very little real estate and even if you tried you couldn't hold you head still enough to blank out any one thing for length of time. I have done flights in a half mile trail to up close formation and once again have never had a moment where the roll bar was in the way.
I do not have an issue with the tipup canopy and have flown many hours in both 6's and 7's that have tipup canopies and they are ok, but my preference is slider and if I built another plane it would have the same.
I am always looking for a reason to fly and I'm ready to take anyone flying so they can show me where the rollbar can blank out an object that will cause an unsafe condition that will cause a midair or near miss.
This is just my opinion and not meant to sway anyone to a slider.
I do not have an issue with the tipup canopy and have flown many hours in both 6's and 7's that have tipup canopies and they are ok, but my preference is slider and if I built another plane it would have the same.
I am always looking for a reason to fly and I'm ready to take anyone flying so they can show me where the rollbar can blank out an object that will cause an unsafe condition that will cause a midair or near miss.
This is just my opinion and not meant to sway anyone to a slider.
ChiefPilot
Well Known Member
vfrazier
Well Known Member
Don't forget that the RV-3s, RV-4s and many Rockets hinge at the side.
Lots of RV-3s are sliders. The plans show both versions.
Dave
Dave
southtarnation
Well Known Member
...and even the occasional -4. Mines a slider, now.
ChiefPilot
Well Known Member
Yes, for sure. I think of those more as "tip-overs", similar to the original X-35 canopy configuration.
For visibility, it seems the -3 & -4 are tops.
curtis
Well Known Member
Just out of curiosity this moring while out flying I tested how much the slider rollbar would hide from your vision. My results were very eye opening (couldn't pass this pun up ). I would pick small objects from up close to way out in the distance such as a house to do my testing. I would close one eye and position the object on one side of the roll bar and then I changed eyes while holding my head steady and found that I could see the same object with either eye without moving my head.
From my testing the rollbar does not blank out any objects as long as you have both eyes open. Note: I did do all of this testing while setting in the normal position and looking past all areas of veiw of the rollbar.
I know this won't change opinions on the purist who favor the tipup's, but no one can tell me that my slider rollbar is unsafe and hides objects while flying.
). I would pick small objects from up close to way out in the distance such as a house to do my testing. I would close one eye and position the object on one side of the roll bar and then I changed eyes while holding my head steady and found that I could see the same object with either eye without moving my head. From my testing the rollbar does not blank out any objects as long as you have both eyes open. Note: I did do all of this testing while setting in the normal position and looking past all areas of veiw of the rollbar.
I know this won't change opinions on the purist who favor the tipup's, but no one can tell me that my slider rollbar is unsafe and hides objects while flying.
11 years after the question was posed ... of the 269 RV6, 7 and 9s in the UK the % tippers is:
| 6 | 61% |
| 6A | 36% |
| 7 | 45% |
| 7A | 58% |
| 9 | 53% |
| 9A | 41% |
| All 6 | 54% |
| All 7 | 47% |
| All 9 | 44% |
| All TW | 52% |
| All A | 43% |
| All RV | 49% |
So pretty much 50/50 but some differences depending on nose- vs. tail-wheel
Slider
Looks far nicer and finished.
Can open when hot on the ground.
doesn't dump water into your avionics.
Roll bar with handle gives you/ passenger something to grab when boarding.
better rear visibility.
wouldn't be without that crossbar, its excellent for grabbing when turbulent, and when working inside the aircraft.
Each to their own, if building another I wouldn't hesitate. (yes have flown tip ups)
Nose wheel / tailwheel ........primer no primer .....
tailwheel every time.
Looks far nicer and finished.
Can open when hot on the ground.
doesn't dump water into your avionics.
Roll bar with handle gives you/ passenger something to grab when boarding.
better rear visibility.
wouldn't be without that crossbar, its excellent for grabbing when turbulent, and when working inside the aircraft.
Each to their own, if building another I wouldn't hesitate. (yes have flown tip ups)
Nose wheel / tailwheel ........primer no primer .....
tailwheel every time.
If you are old with a fragile back like me, putting my dog, a suitcase, tool bag ,etc in the luggage compartment of a tip up compared to a slider with super tracks, well it probably wouldn’t end well for me. 
I turned 70 in March and I had a T10 to S1 fusion back surgery last August and have been able to get in and out of my tipper 7 ok. A bit more of a struggle than before but doable. I approach getting in and out a little different than I did as far as foot placement, etc. I agree a slider would probably be easier in that you don't have to bend over as far. Loading baggage hasn't been much worse than before the operation, except I can't twist as much or lift heavy objects of course. On the flip side, working on avionics troubleshooting and wiring on the tipper is easier than a slider whether you have a back condition or not, due to the glare shield lifting when you open the canopy. I had to get creative to inspect underneath the panel for my condition inspection last month, (used a mirror, light and even a borescope for parts of it that I wouldn't normally have had to), but that is likely no different than if I had a slider. Getting the baggage bulkhead out during the condition inspection is likely harder on the tip up. It wasn't fun even before surgery. I was able to inspect and lube the Heim joints but If I ever have to crawl back in the tail to do maintenance such as a A/P pitch servo replacement or magnetometer replacement I'm gonna have to have some friends help or pay somebody for sure. So, you win some and lose some...If you are old with a fragile back like me, putting my dog, a suitcase, tool bag ,etc in the luggage compartment of a tip up compared to a slider with super tracks, well it probably wouldn’t end well for me.
Joe
…and 100% if 12s and 14s are tip-ups.
Just sayin’.
Don't bet your life on this.Just out of curiosity this moring while out flying I tested how much the slider rollbar would hide from your vision. My results were very eye opening (couldn't pass this pun up
From my testing the rollbar does not blank out any objects as long as you have both eyes open. Note: I did do all of this testing while setting in the normal position and looking past all areas of veiw of the rollbar.
I know this won't change opinions on the purist who favor the tipup's, but no one can tell me that my slider rollbar is unsafe and hides objects while flying.
Each eye has a blind spot. And with the other eye restricted by a bar or window frame, the object can be lost in the other eye's blind spot.
Remember ground school?
