turbo
Well Known Member
Does anyone have any info on this unit? Did some searching and found nothing. Thanks
https://flyingsafer.com/2065
https://flyingsafer.com/2065
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2065 Black Max Engine Saver
- Thread starter turbo
- Start date
I enjoyed their testing article.
http://nebula.wsimg.com/1fd3c69cbb204fc18c64afd686ac7b0f?AccessKeyId=9B63181A996A1861998A&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
it begs the question.... should there be a lightweight firewall mounted engine crankcase air dehumidifier that would automatically activate after shutdown and would accept an external power source. well, I can see all kinds of issues with this but it would be possible. the power to run a small fish pump is very low and if it cycles it would be even lower. the drying of the agent could be done in flight with alternator power. a manual valve could be used to open the system. yeah, what if you forget to close the valve before flight..... there are issues to overcome. the system should have a design goal weight to be less than 1 lb total.
http://nebula.wsimg.com/1fd3c69cbb204fc18c64afd686ac7b0f?AccessKeyId=9B63181A996A1861998A&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
it begs the question.... should there be a lightweight firewall mounted engine crankcase air dehumidifier that would automatically activate after shutdown and would accept an external power source. well, I can see all kinds of issues with this but it would be possible. the power to run a small fish pump is very low and if it cycles it would be even lower. the drying of the agent could be done in flight with alternator power. a manual valve could be used to open the system. yeah, what if you forget to close the valve before flight..... there are issues to overcome. the system should have a design goal weight to be less than 1 lb total.
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Info as in ?
Installed my BlackMax (as recommended by rv8ch friend Mickey who has been running one for about 6 months and did some positive testing) about 2 months ago... seems to be running good, though I did not perform any measurement.
One advantage over my previous system is that I don’t have to to rejuvenate and then chase those pesky silica gel beads that managed to jump out of the baking pan and thereafter invade every corner of the kitchen and adjacent living room...
I love this idea - if the desiccant were sitting on the exhaust pipes it would dry every flight.
I have the mentioned engine dryer, and it seems to work, but I honestly won't know if it really helped my engine for another 10-20 years. I have tested with a humidity probe and it does reduce the humidity, which certainly can't hurt.
yeah, use the pipes to dry it. I hadn't thought of that.
or not even using a drying agent at all, just use a pump and activate it when the ambient air humidity is low. you really only need to get to below 50% RH to achieve a good benefit. cold weather usually brings low RH. so a smart purging system with ambient air may get you to 80% benefit with minimum complexity and minimum weight, something like 1/4 of a pound. it could also have a method to attach to an external drying agent if desired. it could also be very small, something like 2x2 inches with very small attachment tubes but it would need an RH sensor and some electronics.
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It would also destroy silica gel very quickly. You want oil temperatures for this task, not exhaust temperatures.
Those of us who own (mostly idle) 3D printers: leave the pan with silica beads on top of the printer bed set at 80 degC for a few days.
maybe something like this
small 2x2 inch (ok, maybe 2x3 inch, but no more than .25 lb) air pump box with RH sensors and connections. it could monitor the case RH and ambient air RH and decide if it's wise to purge. the lower connections could also attach to an external drying agent source if desired. call it a "smart engine dryer". out of sight and out of mind... but always working to keep your engine healthy. could a device such as this eventually become standard equipment, maybe.
perhaps it could be used for turbine engines as well. hey, water in your engine is bad.
*****
maybe a cheap pump or something better. probably there is something better than this but you get the idea. size is 1 x 2 inch.
*****
it could easily get this stuff out and probably achieve 80% of the benefit of water entrapment elimination without any silicone media if it was smart.
*****
need an electronics wiz to design and build it. I'll fund it and test it. let me know.
small 2x2 inch (ok, maybe 2x3 inch, but no more than .25 lb) air pump box with RH sensors and connections. it could monitor the case RH and ambient air RH and decide if it's wise to purge. the lower connections could also attach to an external drying agent source if desired. call it a "smart engine dryer". out of sight and out of mind... but always working to keep your engine healthy. could a device such as this eventually become standard equipment, maybe.
perhaps it could be used for turbine engines as well. hey, water in your engine is bad.
*****
maybe a cheap pump or something better. probably there is something better than this but you get the idea. size is 1 x 2 inch.
*****
it could easily get this stuff out and probably achieve 80% of the benefit of water entrapment elimination without any silicone media if it was smart.
*****
need an electronics wiz to design and build it. I'll fund it and test it. let me know.
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vlittle
Well Known Member
I had one of these that I bought in 2007 ish. Rube Goldberg type design, but lasted almost 10 years before corroding away the humidity sensor and circuit board and being retired.
Now I just continuously run my air through a large bottle of dessicant, then recharge the dessicant in my reflow oven.
I have two bottles of dessicant for hot swap. I use a modified aquarium pump to circulate. When I go flying, I plug the engine gozinna to the gozoutta so as to not dehumidify the hangar.
The weak part is the humidity sensor, which will eventually give up the ghost.
I think there is some merit to having a timer enabled function. I have a valve that I bought recently that will allow the pump to exhaust to ambient for, say 30 minutes, then go into the closed loop with the dessicant. I just haven't coded it yet because it's stuck behind a large project. No sensor required in this fashion.
V
Now I just continuously run my air through a large bottle of dessicant, then recharge the dessicant in my reflow oven.
I have two bottles of dessicant for hot swap. I use a modified aquarium pump to circulate. When I go flying, I plug the engine gozinna to the gozoutta so as to not dehumidify the hangar.
The weak part is the humidity sensor, which will eventually give up the ghost.
I think there is some merit to having a timer enabled function. I have a valve that I bought recently that will allow the pump to exhaust to ambient for, say 30 minutes, then go into the closed loop with the dessicant. I just haven't coded it yet because it's stuck behind a large project. No sensor required in this fashion.
V
yes, humidity sensor is the weak link. need a reliable unit and easily replaceable. also, need selectable modes for timer function.
it probably would not take much but in the interest of total performance, do you really want to carry around a dense drying agent that would probably get turned to dust with vibration from an exhaust? I am thinking a total weight of less than .25 lb. some folks could justify that weight but probably not much more.
On board is a great idea!!!
. . . Even if it is powered by shore power.
The Black Max uses a Peltier device. I tested one (peltier device, not Black Max) and it produced a 21F dew point, pretty dang good for room temperature. Note the Max has a defrost and condensate clear cycle.
My calculations indicate that 2.5 l/ min will replace the crankcase air in 30 min. A separate battery with a timer could do this.
The question not answered yet is whether there is any liquid in the crankcase that might evaporate and recharge the crankcase air. In spite of a handful of tests, the humidity meter readings are not consistent - - meaning I can not make sense of them.
I currently use a 12VDC mattress inflator to purge the engine for 5 min the pump in desiccated air for 60 min. It was getting complicated to manage a peltier device with a control so went back to the silica gel. The purge and timer process eliminated the need for closed loop and the desiccant last a long time (between regenerations) this way.
. . . Even if it is powered by shore power.
The Black Max uses a Peltier device. I tested one (peltier device, not Black Max) and it produced a 21F dew point, pretty dang good for room temperature. Note the Max has a defrost and condensate clear cycle.
My calculations indicate that 2.5 l/ min will replace the crankcase air in 30 min. A separate battery with a timer could do this.
The question not answered yet is whether there is any liquid in the crankcase that might evaporate and recharge the crankcase air. In spite of a handful of tests, the humidity meter readings are not consistent - - meaning I can not make sense of them.
I currently use a 12VDC mattress inflator to purge the engine for 5 min the pump in desiccated air for 60 min. It was getting complicated to manage a peltier device with a control so went back to the silica gel. The purge and timer process eliminated the need for closed loop and the desiccant last a long time (between regenerations) this way.
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Crude test of Peltier
Here is a page from my development workbook.
Conclusions:
-Dew Point relative to ambient temps is what is important.
-There is 2.5X more water in the crankcase than running a dryer for 2 hours at high ambient humidity
-A peliter device must have some way to defrost and purge condensate or it will plug.
Many Peltier devices look alike - be sure you get a good one. This one was inspected with a borescope and the internal passages were too restrictive even for 2 liters/hr flow.
Here is a page from my development workbook.
Conclusions:
-Dew Point relative to ambient temps is what is important.
-There is 2.5X more water in the crankcase than running a dryer for 2 hours at high ambient humidity
-A peliter device must have some way to defrost and purge condensate or it will plug.
Many Peltier devices look alike - be sure you get a good one. This one was inspected with a borescope and the internal passages were too restrictive even for 2 liters/hr flow.
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I made one for about $50. The expensive part was the dessicant, I bought 15lbs and rotate. When the one half turns orange, I switch for the other half blue stuff and take the orange stuff back home to turn it blue again in the oven. 7.5 lbs goes for about a month, maybe 6 weeks. The aquarium pump was cheap. After I put the plane back in the hangar, I just stopper the outflow air tube in the dipstick tube, and the return tube slip overs the Anti-Splat separator (crankcase vent) outflow. Takes about 90 seconds and avoids having yet one more thing mounted under the cowl.
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2065 quick and gratis repair
Quick and gratis repair so excellent service from Aircraft Components Inc.
My Black Max 2065 failed after 2-1/2 years of continuous use. Fellow on the phone said temperature sensor failed as is common, they normally expect a four year life of that part.
Cost me $21 to ship it on Aug 17, shipped back to me Aug 26.
Quick and gratis repair so excellent service from Aircraft Components Inc.
My Black Max 2065 failed after 2-1/2 years of continuous use. Fellow on the phone said temperature sensor failed as is common, they normally expect a four year life of that part.
Cost me $21 to ship it on Aug 17, shipped back to me Aug 26.
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Black Max engine dehydrator
With all the talk lately I have been hearing about corrosion I figured I should learn more about it. Im in a humid in Michigan area but try to fly at east once a week.
My oil temp never gets high enough to boil out all the moisture so I compensate by changing oil around 20 -25 hours. So far all reports from Blackstone have come back fine.
I always pre-heat my engine and with my AntiSplat oil plug heater and a 5" dox heater ducted into my plenum inlet, I can get the oil and carb to 90 + in about 3 hours starting at 10 degrees F.
I open the dipstick after landing. Im not sure if that is good or makes things worse.
My questions:
1. Should I leave the dipstick open?
2. Should I plug up the exhaust pipes and close the dipstick?
3. I prefer a solution that I just hook up after a flight and forget about it until I fly again without having to replace pellets. Is the Black Max engine dehydrator the easiest and a good solution?
There is an EAA webinar by Mike Bush saying 40% or less humidity is the goal. I am leaning to the Black Max. Any other suggestions that do not require replacing the silica pellets? Thanks
With all the talk lately I have been hearing about corrosion I figured I should learn more about it. Im in a humid in Michigan area but try to fly at east once a week.
My oil temp never gets high enough to boil out all the moisture so I compensate by changing oil around 20 -25 hours. So far all reports from Blackstone have come back fine.
I always pre-heat my engine and with my AntiSplat oil plug heater and a 5" dox heater ducted into my plenum inlet, I can get the oil and carb to 90 + in about 3 hours starting at 10 degrees F.
I open the dipstick after landing. Im not sure if that is good or makes things worse.
My questions:
1. Should I leave the dipstick open?
2. Should I plug up the exhaust pipes and close the dipstick?
3. I prefer a solution that I just hook up after a flight and forget about it until I fly again without having to replace pellets. Is the Black Max engine dehydrator the easiest and a good solution?
There is an EAA webinar by Mike Bush saying 40% or less humidity is the goal. I am leaning to the Black Max. Any other suggestions that do not require replacing the silica pellets? Thanks
few comments
- somewhere in the info on the dehydrator is a comment that it is designed for a “tight” engine,…. So, LEAVING the dipstick open is not a good idea
- I have been using the dehydrator for several years and have found on occasion that it got locked up in reset cycle. I put it on a timer to operate for 3 hours or so,… then a break for 1-2 hours then operate, and no longer have an issue
- after flying I open the dipstick immediately after shutdown, to allow natural ventilation ( and heat) to purge. There is not an air/oil separator installed. I also use a inflator pump at times
- somewhere in the info on the dehydrator is a comment that it is designed for a “tight” engine,…. So, LEAVING the dipstick open is not a good idea
- I have been using the dehydrator for several years and have found on occasion that it got locked up in reset cycle. I put it on a timer to operate for 3 hours or so,… then a break for 1-2 hours then operate, and no longer have an issue
- after flying I open the dipstick immediately after shutdown, to allow natural ventilation ( and heat) to purge. There is not an air/oil separator installed. I also use a inflator pump at times
I am considering one of these and wondered if there has been any experience since 2023 that is relevant. Anyone like it? Anyone not like it?
Have one in N Florida. Did not keep internal engine humidity below 50%. Switched to Drybot a couple years ago and Drybotit works MUCH better. Worth the extra $$. Internal humidity is always below 40%. Use logger to continuously monitor internal temp and humidity.
Thanks. Drybot is only down to 40%? It was my understanding (I can't remember how I came to that understanding though) that 40% is the maximum humidity to protect the engine. I'd like to do better than that. I have a DIY version with desiccant that usually runs between 22 and28% but the desiccant isn't lasting very long anymore and I was looking for a more practical solution.
Drybot is typically always below 30%. Only time I see it ever approaching 40% is when we have week long 98 degree days with 90-100% humidity (Heat Index over 130) during August here in N. Florida. Drybot has worked better than any of the driers I have built or purchased over past 25 years. It is excellent.
My black max has been very reliable for about the last two years or so.
A few things I've commented before on it:
1) never really clear if it's putting out dry air - I added an ESP32 temp/humidity sensor on the output to check this, and I graph it as you can see above. It's really obvious when a peltier fails or the pump fails. This should be built-in, IMHO.
2) Support from Ben has been great, and thankfully I have not needed it since Jan 2024 - seems like he's got the components nailed.
3) I put mine in the breather output, which works for me, but if you have a fancy oil separator it might not work and you need to find a oil filler cap with a hole. Easier said than done!
I have no idea if this is needed since I fly at least monthly, usually more, and use camguard, but it's cheap insurance in case it does reduce the chances of rust.
A few things I've commented before on it:
1) never really clear if it's putting out dry air - I added an ESP32 temp/humidity sensor on the output to check this, and I graph it as you can see above. It's really obvious when a peltier fails or the pump fails. This should be built-in, IMHO.
2) Support from Ben has been great, and thankfully I have not needed it since Jan 2024 - seems like he's got the components nailed.
3) I put mine in the breather output, which works for me, but if you have a fancy oil separator it might not work and you need to find a oil filler cap with a hole. Easier said than done!
I have no idea if this is needed since I fly at least monthly, usually more, and use camguard, but it's cheap insurance in case it does reduce the chances of rust.
