Flaps do not reach step 2 and 3 with airspeed.

[SEXYB]

Hello RV people. My first post here at VAF and some RV greetings from Sweden in north europe.
Wifey and I bought a wonderful RV6 that we have had so much fun with. (Now family went from 2 to 3 persons i 9 months but that will be another post)
We are not the builder but by now the builder (who lost his medical) is a close friend.

Here is the thing:
We have electric flaps in our RV6.
I have tried to search the forum but I have not found any post with this problem.
The thing is our flaps do not reach step 2 and 3 with airspeed on it. (no overspeed, the issue is there also as low as at 60/70 knots)
I hit the flaps down button and its just a small movement. Its like it not even tries to travel to is step 2 or 3 position at airborne.
To get full flaps I have to manually push and hold the flaps down button. (and this is not the way it should have to be used)

On the ground, it all works fine!
I can simulate the issue if I by hand puts a pressure on the trailing edge of the flap and activates flaps down.
The electric motor is there, it works, the position switches works (becuase it works on ground) and I can not find any indications of binding or friction in the flap system.

Thoughts and ideas for a way forward is very appreciated.
Best regards
Johan Rex

 

[Kiwifly]

Hi Johan

What flap positioning system do you have fitted?

 

[SEXYB]

We dont have any flap position indication if that is what you was thinking of?

if other way I have to admit my answer is I dont know. Is it many different flap position systems out there in RVs?
Please be kind, Im still new to this aircraft.

 

[Jonnyb]

Sorry, should have read the full post!

 

[Kiwifly]

We dont have any flap position indication if that is what you was thinking of?

if other way I have to admit my answer is I dont know. Is it many different flap position systems out there in RVs?
Please be kind, Im still new to this aircraft.

Okay Johan, for the flaps to stop at stages automatically you will have some sort of positioning system. Or do you manually stop the switch to stop the flap travel ?

 

[lr172]

The fact that the motor works with no load ( no air pressure against the flap resisting movement), yet does not work with load (moving air resisting flap movement) would imply that the motor is weak and not delivering full power. 15 years or so ago, we had issues with the flap motors. The mfr was putting too much grease on the acme thread and this, grease over time would migrate up to the motor itself. Once the grease got to the motor brushes it would limit current flow to the motor. Usually the motor just stopped working, but it could also reduce current flow enough to allow the motor to work, but with minimal power.

Many old threads here on the subject. Many take the unit apart and clean up the motor and then all works fine. I took mine apart when new and got rid of the excess grease and have never experienced the problem. Don't hear about it much anymore, as the mfr eventually stopped putting too much grease in.

 

[Pat Hatch]

Hello RV people. My first post here at VAF and some RV greetings from Sweden in north europe.
Wifey and I bought a wonderful RV6 that we have had so much fun with. (Now family went from 2 to 3 persons i 9 months but that will be another post)
We are not the builder but by now the builder (who lost his medical) is a close friend.

Here is the thing:
We have electric flaps in our RV6.
I have tried to search the forum but I have not found any post with this problem.
The thing is our flaps do not reach step 2 and 3 with airspeed on it. (no overspeed, the issue is there also as low as at 60/70 knots)
I hit the flaps down button and its just a small movement. Its like it not even tries to travel to is step 2 or 3 position at airborne.
To get full flaps I have to manually push and hold the flaps down button. (and this is not the way it should have to be used)

On the ground, it all works fine!
I can simulate the issue if I by hand puts a pressure on the trailing edge of the flap and activates flaps down.
The electric motor is there, it works, the position switches works (becuase it works on ground) and I can not find any indications of binding or friction in the flap system.

Thoughts and ideas for a way forward is very appreciated.
Best regards
Johan Rex

Hi Johan,

Disclaimer: We provide replacement flap actuators for your RV-6. You will need to do a little digging into your airplane. I would remove the two panels between the seats that cover your current flap motor. First, determine which flap motor you have. It's probably the original Vans flap motor, but you need to confirm. Second, you need to determine how you are controlling the flaps. It sounds like you have a flap positioner, which would explain your movement from step 2 to step 3. What type of switch are you using to control the flaps? A flap positioner would use a momentary switch in both directions, up and down. The reason for this is that you are signaling your flap positioner that you want to move to the next step by momentarily depressing your switch. If you don't have a positioner, you would set your flaps manually by holding the flap switch down until the flaps achieve the desired position. Usually, with manual flaps, you would have the type switch the is momentary down and sustained up. That is so that you can raise the flaps with one actuation of the switch, but it is also possible to have a momentary up. In this case, you would hold the flap switch up until the flaps were all the way up. If you want to continue using your flap positioner, it would be a fairly simple task of just replacing your flap motor if you determine that the motor is your problem. I sounds like it is. To my knowledge, the original flap motors are no longer supplied by Vans so you might need one of our replacement actuators. If you would like to discuss your options, I would suggest you contact me via email or call my cell phone and we can help you. Call me at 772-538-6275 on WhatsApp. Email is [email protected].

 

[rockwoodrv9]

I had trouble with my flap motor and replaced it with a Pat Hatch motor last month. It took me a little time to get the wiring correct between the G3X and VPX but that was because of a short. It works great now and Pat was great helping me get it figured out.

 

[SEXYB]

Thank you guys! The family will get to the hangar a few evenings this week. I will come back with some pictures of the flap motor.

 

[SEXYB]

Hello! Swedish winter came between. The flap motor that we got is 9234C120-R7.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

You have the ShowPlanes Flap Positioning system. I fly with it and like it.

But, if the little rod is not right you can have problems. I suggest you operate the flaps with with hand pressure to simulate the problem in the air. When doing this (and the flaps to not move) reach in to move the rod a little to see if that fixes the issue. If so follow the install instructions to adjust the rod.

Carl

 

[SEXYB]

Well, that commutator was anything but clean.

We tried before removal to wiggle the the rod of the position system as we simulated the problem with hand pressure on flaps with no success.

We are reading Vans document of flap motor maintenence.

Flap Motor Maintenance - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes

www.vansaircraft.com

Cleaning of that commutator gives atleast the motor a chance for better operation...

 

[lr172]

Well, that commutator was anything but clean.

We tried before removal to wiggle the the rod of the position system as we simulated the problem with hand pressure on flaps with no success.

We are reading Vans document of flap motor maintenence.

Flap Motor Maintenance - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes

www.vansaircraft.com

Cleaning of that commutator gives atleast the motor a chance for better operation...

A good amount of grease there. no surprise you are not getting much power out of the motor. based upon those pics, my money is on everything working fine once cleaned up. Good job getting that apart for cleaning.

 

[DRMA]

I'm not clear, but it sounds from your original post that you can lower the flaps while airborne by holding the flap switch down? If that is the case, then I doubt your problem is with the motor, as it would seem to have enough torque to move the flaps. Instead, it sounds like a problem with the flap positioning system or position sensor.

Just my thoughts.

 

[lr172]

I'm not clear, but it sounds from your original post that you can lower the flaps while airborne by holding the flap switch down? If that is the case, then I doubt your problem is with the motor, as it would seem to have enough torque to move the flaps. Instead, it sounds like a problem with the flap positioning system or position sensor.

Just my thoughts.

orig post:

The thing is our flaps do not reach step 2 and 3 with airspeed on it. ... On the ground, it all works fine!

pretty clear that motor has only limited torque.

 

[DRMA]

I'm going by his first description of the problem, where he states:
"To get full flaps I have to manually push and hold the flaps down button. (and this is not the way it should have to be used)" If he can get full flaps by simply holding the down button, that would seem to indicate that there is sufficient torque to lower the flaps, but that the positioning system is not sending power to the flap motor. When he holds down the flap switch, he is overriding/bypassing the positioning system.

 

[SEXYB]

Thank you guys. It looks like we have a double trouble here.
The motor really needed a cleaning as you can see on my pictures here, so it is now cleaned and that part feels like its now working as it should.
I remember that previous owner (and builder) asked me if we ever hade experienced that the flaps didnt extend. He said he have had that trouble about 2 times back in days. So the motor needed its cleaning.

After installation of the actuator in aircraft again no flap positions at all was working. Just a short movement down as the switch was actuated.
I notised that I had put to much tension the lockwire for the rod end and it didnt allow the rod end bearing to move.
I also notised a small bent in the notched rod for the position sensor/switches.

After some wiggle and tiggle I can have the positions to work. Sometimes with force on the trailing edge of flaps and sometimes without.

So my trouble now lies in the position system.

But hey, how sensetive is really this Showplanes position systems? The flaps with actuator and all details around it - things is moving and it is pressure on components involved.
The installation looks good so far but I will download the installations manual and gain some knowledge before I take everything apart...