Another Engine Delay

[N8DAV8R]

200 defective crankshafts are a lot for a small production line like Lycoming. I wonder how the QC was maintained at the subcontractor.

I don't know about the QC, but that crank manufacturer sure did get a solid glazing in that big jingo promo video they published several weeks back. Nothing to do but laugh and ponder what they knew about this when they put that out, patting each other on the back.

 

[docjjrmd]

200 defective crankshafts are a lot for a small production line like Lycoming. I wonder how the QC was maintained at the subcontractor. If these are destined for certified engines, I wonder if the FAA will get involved.

If it makes anyone feel better GM has a recall on 597,000 6.2 Liter L87 crankshafts currently. Estimate $1 billion liability. Number of affected engines likely to increase. Maybe 200 before the QC process caught it isn't too bad....

 

[bertschb]

Maybe 200 before the QC process caught it isn't too bad....

Unless you're one of the people waiting for an engine

 

[docjjrmd]

Unless you're one of the people waiting for an engine

Oh ,I thoroughly agree! But as I said before, I'm a Rotax guy. I just have to figure out how to hang my IH tractor counter weights on the nose of a -15 to make the W&B work with a Rotax EP18

 

[Walt D]

According to the video in the first post of this thread;
-The cylinder heads come from an Eck industries foundry
-The crank cases are cast and machined by Kurt Mfg
-The cams & Crank come from Aviation Mfg Company (a division of Callies Performance)

New Lycoming YouTube video

Thought I'd share this interesting new YouTube video from Lycoming: Lycoming video

vansairforce.net

Yes, and Callies Performance is a GM engine component supplier. Crankshafts. I wonder if this has anything to do with the 6.2L L87 engine recall. Callies may be involved in the several hundred thousand engine recall! That's a lot of crankshafts!

 

[Jjackh10]

Yes, and Callies Performance is a GM engine component supplier. Crankshafts. I wonder if this has anything to do with the 6.2L L87 engine recall. Callies may be involved in the several hundred thousand engine recall! That's a lot of crankshafts!

Hmmm, I didn't know they supply GM as well. It's certainly possible they got a rail car of raw stock that had bad metallurgy and caused all of this. If that's the case it's possible there are Lycoming's already delivered with suspect cranks.

A very unfortunate situation. Callies has always had a good reputation. I suspect this wasn't caused by direct errors on their part. Likely an issue that hadn't been recognized as possible, so QC was not set up to catch.

 

[skirting_virga]

If my engine shop bought a new angle valve Lycoming crank, non-counterweighted, sometime around Aug/Sept, how would I find out if there's a defect?

 

[docjjrmd]

If my engine shop bought a new angle valve Lycoming crank, non-counterweighted, sometime around Aug/Sept, how would I find out if there's a defect?

Hope Lycoming has good parts source records.

Apparently GM crank issue is a manufacturing defect where crank was not polished correctly. Perhaps DanH can explain RA and RZ and the importance of the ratio of the two. I don't know what Lycoming's QC process is or who/where in the manufacturer supply chain the crank gets polished or who is responsible. The good news is the defect can be remediated if caught before crank is put in service. I suspect the delay at Lycoming will become longer as the supply issues are investigated. I fear a repeat of the Superior crank debacle though, which is a nice way of saying it really is time for serious consideration of other engine variants to be developed with Van's engineering support.

 

[justa6ereh]

RA is the fine-ness, if you will of the machined or ground surface….RZ is the peak to valley depth…

When you machine or grind, you leave cutting marks…the lower the RA..the finer the polish.

Apparently these cranks were not adequately polished.

 

[F18Sailor]

Hope Lycoming has good parts source records.

Apparently GM crank issue is a manufacturing defect where crank was not polished correctly. Perhaps DanH can explain RA and RZ and the importance of the ratio of the two. I don't know what Lycoming's QC process is or who/where in the manufacturer supply chain the crank gets polished or who is responsible. The good news is the defect can be remediated if caught before crank is put in service. I suspect the delay at Lycoming will become longer as the supply issues are investigated. I fear a repeat of the Superior crank debacle though, which is a nice way of saying it really is time for serious consideration of other engine variants to be developed with Van's engineering support.

In other words, what the heck is taking Deltahawk soo long??? Those engines would cover the majority of Vans aircraft ordered today (the -14, -15 and -10). Us single digit RV flyers are a bit more reliant on the legacy GA engine builders.

 

[N10KE]

In other words, what the heck is taking Deltahawk soo long??? Those engines would cover the majority of Vans aircraft ordered today (the -14, -15 and -10). Us single digit RV flyers are a bit more reliant on the legacy GA engine builders.

I'm sure @cjs will weigh in, but DH is working on a FF package right now for the RV-14. When I toured their facility, they were getting ready to modify a C-172 and Piper had just dropped off a brand new Seminole to be converted to DH engines. There was a DH-owned Cirrus (SR20 I think) with a DH engine there. Craig and Synergy will shortly be working on a DH 235hp powered RV-10 and then hopefully a couple of us will be doing a DH 235 powered RV-15. DH is also working on their 6 cylinder 350hp engine. They are a small company, but appear to be well funded by an entrepreneur with a passion for aviation. They want to pursue FAA certification for these other engines (the 180 is already certified) which takes a lot of time and even more money.

 

[cjs]

I'm sure @cjs will weigh in, but DH is working on a FF package right now for the RV-14. When I toured their facility, they were getting ready to modify a C-172 and Piper had just dropped off a brand new Seminole to be converted to DH engines. There was a DH-owned Cirrus (SR20 I think) with a DH engine there. Craig and Synergy will shortly be working on a DH 235hp powered RV-10 and then hopefully a couple of us will be doing a DH 235 powered RV-15. DH is also working on their 6 cylinder 350hp engine. They are a small company, but appear to be well funded by an entrepreneur with a passion for aviation. They want to pursue FAA certification for these other engines (the 180 is already certified) which takes a lot of time and even more money.

Not a lot I can add to that - you’ve pretty much described accurately the plan we’re operating on currently.

We are planning to have the ‘production’ DeltaHawk RV14 at AirVenture 2026. This would have the firewall forward package DH plans to offer to RV14 builders. The plan is the FF package comes complete - the engine, and all the bits, attached to the engine mount. Pre-tested and pre-run. Very plug-n-play.

Lots going on now to achieve this. Once the plane gets back to us (at SynergyAir in Eugene,OR) in April for final assembly, I’ll post more frequent updates on the progress.

 

[skirting_virga]

All good points. I tend to look at the core acquisition task as a need to buy before it gets into the parts distribution chain, much as I bought trucks from owners and leasing companies before they went to auctions and dealers. Here at 08A, I recently watched four airplanes go to a salvage house (meaning five engines) at $5K apiece.

Guy who made living on price arbitrage with vehicles is better at finding deals than average guy. News at 11.

Seriously though - finding deals, verifying the suitability of parts, figuring the probability that parts are good or not, and not getting burned (or just unlucky) is itself a skill. If I tried to do that with an airplane engine, I would never trust it.

 

[Clayvt]

Just to update my earlier comment on my Titan order.
I got a call on 6/1/26 to confirm some final details as the engine is going into production this or next week.
I Originally placed my deposit on 3/27/25 and modified the quote/order on 5/20/25. I don't know if the change order altered my place in line but with the original order this puts Continental at a 12-13 month lead time which is what was told to be last year when i placed my order.
I'm not too far out with finishing up my wiring then I'm moving on to the canopy so my timing has worked out fairly well. Hopefully the engine will only sit in the crate for a few months before hanging.