Check your rivet inventory

[543TB]

I think it's ok to say that Van's has not come anywhere close to exhibiting the level of inventory/packing/shipping precision that would be necessary for this tight of a control on things like rivets. This is not bashing, it's an objective observation. Pointing this out should fall under the umbrella of being willing to early adopt, but they need to respond appropriately on their end of things. It's just not working. Fix it.

They should consider a supplemental hardware supply, at least of these sub-cent items so us builders aren't out here horse trading rivets. This isn't new-kit specific like KAI errors or backordered unique parts. It's a bad look.

Yeah. I've been a pretty strong cheerleader for what Van's is doing but right now it seems like a lot of big ideas being imperfectly executed. The tackle box seems like a "cool" improvement but was a thing no one really asked for that makes little difference when the stocking isn't done correctly. We had hundreds of leftover rivets from the RV-7 kit, so much so that it took awhile before we needed to crack into the supply they sent for the -10; both of those seemed to have been measured by the pound rather than the count (to be fair, both were pre-bankruptcy purchases). Not allowing for extras in the event of a miss-drive is one thing, not including the correct count (or even the right rivet) to begin with is another.

My email about the wrong parts callouts on the KIA have received a vague answer that only confirmed it was contradictory but didn't indicate what we should be doing, and only an automated response came back for missing inventory. The nut plates for the ailerons were supposed to be mailed out "next week" after the emergency notice two weeks ago tomorrow. Haven't seen those. Today is supposed to be the ship date on the backordered parts, but no idea if that will come and go with no notice, either. I know these are a bunch of little things that they can get ironed out, but once again the radio silence from the mother ship is pretty deafening, unfortunately.

 

[ScottSchmidt]

Hello all,
Just received my wing kit today and have started to open boxes and poke around.

This issue is very confusing to me because it looks like some of you received the CR3213-4-3 in your kit. My kit is CR3213-4-2. I can't believe they would have different prints for the tacklebox? But it does not look like a controlled document with a revision.

Then Van's has asked today if I received CR3213-4-3 which I did not.

From Van's letter today asking to check.
Please go to your hardware box 1 and look in the top center section (closest to lid hinge) at the Cherrymax rivets. Here, you should find quantity seventy-eight (78) of the CR3213-4-3 rivet

I have asked Van's if this is correct through e-mail.

 

[rvbuilder2002]

Hello all,
Just received my wing kit today and have started to open boxes and poke around.

This issue is very confusing to me because it looks like some of you received the CR3213-4-3 in your kit. My kit is CR3213-4-2. I can't believe they would have different prints for the tacklebox? But it does not look like a controlled document with a revision.

Then Van's has asked today if I received CR3213-4-3 which I did not.

From Van's letter today asking to check.
Please go to your hardware box 1 and look in the top center section (closest to lid hinge) at the Cherrymax rivets. Here, you should find quantity seventy-eight (78) of the CR3213-4-3 rivet

I have asked Van's if this is correct through e-mail.

View attachment 108621View attachment 108622

The length size is marked on the head of the rivet.
Whether it is a 2 or a 3 will tell you what size you have.

 

[Louise Hose]

All of my CherryMax rivets were -3 (and the index photo showed them as -3s) and they set appropriately on the initial use. I guess I was lucky.

 

[ScottSchmidt]

The length size is marked on the head of the rivet.
Whether it is a 2 or a 3 will tell you what size you have.

Sounds good. I do see that I have -3's.

 

[rocketman1988]

All of my CherryMax rivets were -3 (and the index photo showed them as -3s) and they set appropriately on the initial use. I guess I was lucky.

Yes, you were.

I received cr3212 flush head rivets.

I guarantee vans knows about it now. Also, they know about the plans in section 27 calling for -2 rivets. That is in error. A -2 rivet has a maximum grip of 0.125 and the stack that is actually being riveted is 0.182 or 0.150 depending on the hole. The -3 rivet has a maximum grip of 0.187, so it is the correct rivet, not the -2.

They are working diligently to identify who needs them so they can replace them.

 

[N10KE]

If Van’s doesn’t want them returned, I will happily take a donation of anyone’s flush CherryMax CR3212-4-3 rivets. Happy to pay a fee for postage and handling. They will be put to good use, I promise!

 

[Louise Hose]

Well, another rivet error by Vans. I discovered today that all 548 (if that's the correct number) of AN426AD3-3.5 rivets in my bin are actually -3. In addition, I apparently have the 104 of AN426 AD3-3. They are identical. Once again, trust but verify!

 

[N8DAV8R]

I guess this is the place where we are keeping track of rivet 'gotchas' in the wing kit, at least for now. I noticed an error that I have not seen mentioned yet. In section 22, the rivets called out as #5 on page 22-22, AN470AD4-11, are too long. These are pretty easy to catch by looking and also by comparing the same rivet previously called out where there was another attach angle in the stack-up, but I thought it would be worth mentioning since I suppose a brand new builder could miss this and have some toed over rivets to deal with.

I did not dig through all the sections and compare to the hardware list to see if the correct rivets are actually provided. I just dug into my rivet stash for some 4-11s and cut them to fit. I forget where I landed but I think it was about an 4-8.5.

 

[TShort]

I guess this is the place where we are keeping track of rivet 'gotchas' in the wing kit, at least for now. I noticed an error that I have not seen mentioned yet. In section 22, the rivets called out as #5 on page 22-22, AN470AD4-11, are too long. These are pretty easy to catch by looking and also by comparing the same rivet previously called out where there was another attach angle in the stack-up, but I thought it would be worth mentioning since I suppose a brand new builder could miss this and have some toed over rivets to deal with.

I did not dig through all the sections and compare to the hardware list to see if the correct rivets are actually provided. I just dug into my rivet stash for some 4-11s and cut them to fit. I forget where I landed but I think it was about an 4-8.5.


View attachment 108878
View attachment 108877

Nate-
I found the same and forgot to post. I ended up using -9s, I sent feedback via the Van's link Louise posted.

It sure would be nice if we had some way to better track all the little gotchas people are finding. Someone mentioned a wiki but I clueless as to how something like that gets set up...

 

[jacoby]

I guess this is the place where we are keeping track of rivet 'gotchas' in the wing kit, at least for now. I noticed an error that I have not seen mentioned yet. In section 22, the rivets called out as #5 on page 22-22, AN470AD4-11, are too long. These are pretty easy to catch by looking and also by comparing the same rivet previously called out where there was another attach angle in the stack-up, but I thought it would be worth mentioning since I suppose a brand new builder could miss this and have some toed over rivets to deal with.

I did not dig through all the sections and compare to the hardware list to see if the correct rivets are actually provided. I just dug into my rivet stash for some 4-11s and cut them to fit. I forget where I landed but I think it was about an 4-8.5.


View attachment 108878
View attachment 108877

The numbered callouts are also incorrect on both pages aren’t they? Looks like the bearing on the callouts got shuffled but the steps didn’t get updated.

 

[TShort]

The numbered callouts are also incorrect on both pages aren’t they? Looks like the bearing on the callouts got shuffled but the steps didn’t get updated.

The numbered references change from page to page, the numbered list does not stay consistent with the part number depending on the number of parts required in the assembly. Thus, the bearing is #7 on one page and #6 on the other. Initially a bit confusing but I am getting used to it.

 

[jacoby]

The numbered references change from page to page, the numbered list does not stay consistent with the part number depending on the number of parts required in the assembly. Thus, the bearing is #7 on one page and #6 on the other. Initially a bit confusing but I am getting used to it.

I get that but the first pic step 1 says "cleco an angle and a rivet to the [previous assembly that somehow includes the opposite angle] and ignore the bearing". It should be "Cleco 4 and 5 to the 1-2-3-7 riveted assembly." Not sure how you cleco a rivet..

Second pic step 1 says "cleco the angle to the [assembly that magically has the angle attached] and ignore the large bracket you already riveted together". It should be "Cleco 4 to the 1-2-3-6 riveted assembly."

 

[TShort]

I get that but the first pic step 1 says "cleco an angle and a rivet to the [previous assembly that somehow includes the opposite angle] and ignore the bearing". It should be "Cleco 4 and 5 to the 1-2-3-7 riveted assembly." Not sure how you cleco a rivet..

Second pic step 1 says "cleco the angle to the [assembly that magically has the angle attached] and ignore the large bracket you already riveted together". It should be "Cleco 4 to the 1-2-3-6 riveted assembly."

LOL. Confusing! You are right. I've seen some other sections with similar issues. Admittedly, I tend to just look at the pictures and not pay as much attention to the string of numbers!

 

[Louise Hose]

I guess this is the place where we are keeping track of rivet 'gotchas' in the wing kit, at least for now. I noticed an error that I have not seen mentioned yet. In section 22, the rivets called out as #5 on page 22-22, AN470AD4-11, are too long. These are pretty easy to catch by looking and also by comparing the same rivet previously called out where there was another attach angle in the stack-up, but I thought it would be worth mentioning since I suppose a brand new builder could miss this and have some toed over rivets to deal with.

You had me worried as I have made this sub-assembly for both wings and don't remember a problem. Sure enough, the very original (sample) KAI that I was using at that time had the proper call-out and I, apparently, had the proper rivets. They must have messed it up in the revision process! Glad you were alert and caught your problem.

 

[N8DAV8R]

I get that but the first pic step 1 says "cleco an angle and a rivet to the [previous assembly that somehow includes the opposite angle] and ignore the bearing". It should be "Cleco 4 and 5 to the 1-2-3-7 riveted assembly." Not sure how you cleco a rivet..

Second pic step 1 says "cleco the angle to the [assembly that magically has the angle attached] and ignore the large bracket you already riveted together". It should be "Cleco 4 to the 1-2-3-6 riveted assembly."

Ah...I see it now.

To be honest my brain doesn't even process those part number labels any more, they may as well not even be on the page. In my opinion they don't offer anything more than an opportunity for confusion. I'm looking at the parts list(s) to point me generally in the right direction, then the drawings to verify they are actually the right parts and for orientation.

 

[Louise Hose]

LOL. Confusing! You are right. I've seen some other sections with similar issues. Admittedly, I tend to just look at the pictures and not pay as much attention to the string of numbers!

I have found the pictures to be excellent but the text in the early version(s) of KAIs are often just wrong. So far, I don't think I have gone wrong letting the drawings guide me when the text and drawings conflict.

 

[N8DAV8R]

It sure would be nice if we had some way to better track all the little gotchas people are finding. Someone mentioned a wiki but I clueless as to how something like that gets set up...

I just noticed that on the RV-10 Wiki site, the RV-15 is listed under Other Model Wikis as "Coming Soon". If there is an intention for someone to do that it would be a disservice to start something else and duplicate/fragment the effort.

Anyone know who runs the RV-10 wiki and/or added that coming soon entry? Maybe we could inspire some progress or help out?

 

[rocketman1988]

I just noticed that on the RV-10 Wiki site, the RV-15 is listed under Other Model Wikis as "Coming Soon". If there is an intention for someone to do that it would be a disservice to start something else and duplicate/fragment the effort.

Anyone know who runs the RV-10 wiki and/or added that coming soon entry? Maybe we could inspire some progress or help out?

Martin Renschler runs the RV-10 WIKI...I will contact him.

 

[Alphalpha]

A rivet gage is also a relatively painless way to assure you are using the correct length rivet in spite of what the plans are indicating. Cut a rectangle notch out of a 90 corner. One dimension is the length of the shank projecting out of the stack prior to bucking. The other is the height the manufactured end must be flattened too.

 

[Carlos151]

Working on the vertical stab, the aft spar called for six AN470 AD4-4.5 rivets. Reached in the tackle box and the rivets were way too long. Upon further review, over half of the 70 rivets were actually AN470 AD4-5.5 rivets. This was not a case of the rivets migrating between partitions since the -5 rivets separated both of these. It is definitely a case of poor stocking by Vans.
Check your rivet lengths

 

[deene]

Well if you are like me and made the (poor, highly regretted) decision to self build the ‘15 tanks, there is a way to build without the 78 cherrymax rivets. Since I also did not receive the rivets, I simply changed the build sequence to build the spar joint with appropriate 470’s before tackling the tanks. This worked well but did entail getting help to flip the wing when needed for the tanks.

Ironically, sometime later I received the correct cherry rivets. I also have had to rescheduled the completion of my tanks until the cooler weather of fall since central Texas weather is presently brutal (115 heat index is bad with an old metal hangar and limited power availability).

 

[rocketman1988]

Well if you are like me and made the (poor, highly regretted) decision to self build the ‘15 tanks, there is a way to build without the 78 cherrymax rivets. Since I also did not receive the rivets, I simply changed the build sequence to build the spar joint with appropriate 470’s before tackling the tanks. This worked well but did entail getting help to flip the wing when needed for the tanks.

Ironically, sometime later I received the correct cherry rivets. I also have had to rescheduled the completion of my tanks until the cooler weather of fall since central Texas weather is presently brutal (115 heat index is bad with an old metal hangar and limited power availability).

Did you check with vans in substituting AN470 rivets for the cherry max rivets? From a design standpoint, the cherrys have a substantially higher shear strength than the comparable AN470s…like 50% more.