how to make skis fit?

[hobofish]

GM! low time pilot here just got this RV7a and i am having a blast! wanted to know if anyone had any ideas on how to fit their skis inside? as seen below they do fit and don't interfere with the pedals nor the stick. for this to work i would need to bungie the hell out of them so they dont move during flight. even bungied I don't like the feel of maybe them becoming loose. any ideas are welcome! thanks!

 

[Ironflight]

I have flown with my skis in our RV-6 in essentially the same way - but I removed the passenger stick to make sure they’re was no interference (my skis had to go a little diagonally), and yes - I tied them (with rope, not bunnies - I didn’t want any motion) to the cockpit crossbar front eh bindings so that they were held as far aft as possible and couldn’t slide into the rudder pedals.

The RV-6 is a reasonable single-seat, single-skier transport…. You then just have to get from the airport to the ski resort!

 

[AlpineYoda]

I don't know enough about the design of the RV-7 to give specific instructions, but in my RV-10 I made a second baggage bulkhead with a hole cut out big enough for a few pairs of skis, and added a box around the skis that extends 18 inches into the tail. With the left rear passenger removed, this is enough space from the back of the pilot seat to the end of the box to hold 190 cm skis. Yes, this does have a small impact on CG and my CG "safe to fly" model does include which bulkhead I am using and if I have skis into the tail cone.

I was inspired by a guy I know who modified a tail dragger Maule to have a full length ski box deep into the tail cone for delivering skiers and all their gear to the tops of mountains for backcountry skiing.

 

[dpansier]

 

[rockyfatcat]

Why not access the tailcone? Skis don’t weigh much. You should weigh them and figure out the correct moment for them as part of your preflight CG.

 

[Tdeman]

The one time I moved skis in a 7 was just like you had them there, but with the rubber Voile Ski straps at each end and securing to the mid-fuse crossbar. Couldn't quite finagle them under the crossbar even coming from the front at an angle.

Ease of carrying skis (when flying solo) was one of the pluses when I jumped from my 6 project to a 4. With the rear seat and stick out, a pair of 179’s easily go from the baggage area up to the rear seat’s footwell…

And of course the ramp at Reno Stead is the perfect location for durability testing tailwheel components, so this is a business trip with incidental leisure.

 

[mr.sun]

The one time I moved skis in a 7 was just like you had them there, but with the rubber Voile Ski straps at each end and securing to the mid-fuse crossbar. Couldn't quite finagle them under the crossbar even coming from the front at an angle.

Ease of carrying skis (when flying solo) was one of the pluses when I jumped from my 6 project to a 4. With the rear seat and stick out, a pair of 179’s easily go from the baggage area up to the rear seat’s footwell…

And of course the ramp at Reno Stead is the perfect location for durability testing tailwheel components, so this is a business trip with incidental leisure.

View attachment 77319

 

[mr.sun]

I needed a way to haul long rifles with my wife along so I cut out a 8” x 8” section at the bottom of the rear bulkhead on her side. I riveted in a stop n either side and hinged it at the top. Centered it over an existing screw so it is tight when not in use. Planned to make a box for the back side but found tat when everything is strapped down, no movement with all our supplies strapped down over the rifles. Suppose the same thing cold be done for skis or fishing poles. Just be aware of anything being disturbed or jammed behind bulkhead.

 

[Toobuilder]

“Ski tubes” have been employed in many airplanes over the years. Adding one to my Tailwind project in fact. Often little more than a sewn sock that’s attached to the rear of the aft baggage bulkhead, it’s used as a specialized “extended compartment” used for skis or fishing poles or other light weight items. The CG will need to be verified, but that should go without saying.

I would NEVER fly with the skis as pictured in the OP however. WAY too close to the primary controls to make me feel comfortable.

 

[rph142]

Im working on a belly pod that ive designed to fit a gravel bike with 700C wheels. My goal is to configure it to fit skis or a snowboard as well. Heres the plug out of the CNC with a fresh coat of duratek. After polishing to a mirror finish ill be pulling a mould that I'll then be using to layup the carbon pod. Im using a 1C1 layup with strategically placed uni for load path distribution from the hard points. Ill keep the group posted as this project moves along.

 

[Tdeman]

Im working on a belly pod that ive designed to fit a gravel bike with 700C wheels. My goal is to configure it to fit skis or a snowboard as well. Heres the plug out of the CNC with a fresh coat of duratek. After polishing to a mirror finish ill be pulling a mould that I'll then be using to layup the carbon pod. Im using a 1C1 layup with strategically placed uni for load path distribution from the hard points. Ill keep the group posted as this project moves along.


View attachment 77650

That looks nice!
When I first convinced my other half we needed a 4, I told her we could build a belly-ski pod for it so we could both go. Haven't gotten around to it yet, but am hoping to eventually get it finished...

For reference, the nose of the pod is an S-601 Spinner.

Bottom engine mount cross-tube and rear spar carry through would make easy attach points.

 

[Webb]

I thought about long item storage when I built my 8. Instead of stopping at the bulkhead of the rear of the baggage compartment which was able to be removed if needed, I hinged it, put in a floor and camlocks instead of screws. With an extra 2 feet of storage, I can now fit long items if needed.

Perhaps you could do something similar.

 

[kibrickj]

So here's a thought...maybe a reach...At least for the RV 8, I measure a little more than 200cm (209 cm) from just behind the rear passenger (backside of rear seat, front of rear baggage bulkhead) back to the final bulkhead in rear...long enough to fit even cross country skis, with the removal of the rear baggage access panel, though clearance/space issues near the final bay in the rear are tight. Proposal, install #10 anchor nuts, 3 or 4 down left and right side along the top longeron. Install AN42B-4 eyebolts. String nylon webbing "hammocks" between left and right side attached to eyebolts with small nylon S clips or mini carabiners between eyebolts and nylon webbing. Now there is support to hold a ski bag the full length behind the rear passenger.

problem 1: Access to string nylon hammocks.
Solution: install two in rear baggage compartment, and maybe only 1 (preferably 2 if possible for safety/backup) in final rear bay reach in through most rear bulkhead). Both locations have adequate access.

problem 2: Stability.
Solution: When traveling with ski bag, wrap nylon webbing in a loop around body of ski bag to help prevent ski bag from moving up or down, as well as secure down longitudinal access. Or, wrap ski bag with alternative bungee chord to better secure bag in all directions. Negative to this solution is that its a mild pain in the ass to removal rear fiberglass fairing.

problem 3: Clearance in rear bay from elevator control tube. Not super comfortable here without perhaps some sort of a rigid separation...which not sure how to do nicely. if redundant support is done in rear bay (2 nylon stringers across left and right longerons, wrapped tightly around bag (which again is a little bit of a hassle due to access), maybe that's would be enough to provide confidence.

I'm not sure if I'm overly determined or crazy or both. I need to close up my fuselage very soon, so now is the time to installl #10 anchors nuts for future flexibility. I'm guessing no one has done this but who knows. Curious if anyone thinks this is potentially viable or just bat sh!t crazy....or both.

 

[Jim Frisbie]

When I built my 9A I had skis in mind.
I split the right half of the top section of the bagage bulkhead so I could take it out when carrying skis
I installed a net extending into the tailcone 18-20 in and skis fit nicely

 

[Bruce]

I cut this door in the aft bulkhead.
I also added a bar that goes across the next bulkhead .
Was made for fishing poles but would work for skis.


Boomer

 

[Toobuilder]

I used my -8 to transport my 80” Rocket prop to the shop for overhaul. Took out the rear baggage wall and rear seat back, strapped the prop to the roll bar up front. Messy, but worked.

 

[plehrke]

I used my -8 to transport my 80” Rocket prop to the shop for overhaul. Took out the rear baggage wall and rear seat back, strapped the prop to the roll bar up front. Messy, but worked.

I’d would not fly with the rear cabin bulkhead removed or significantly cut away. It is the only real shear panel in the fuselage. Flying in turbulence or a hard landing you could find the fuselage is racked or twisted. Maybe the skins will react the load ok, but without seeing the load distributions I would not take the chance.

 

[Toobuilder]

I’d would not fly with the rear cabin bulk removed or significantly cut away. It is the only real shear panel in the fuselage. Flying in turbulence or a hard landing you could find the fuselage is racked or twisted. Maybe the skins will react the load ok, but without seeing the load distributions I would not take the chance.

And how much shear is carried with a few undersized screws in extremely sloppy holes?

Not much

 

[rolivi]

I’d would not fly with the rear cabin bulk removed or significantly cut away.

This is fascinating to me. I didn't build my plane, and I can barely fly it, but it would never have occured to me what the structural impact of that bulkhead is.

I've got much more learning to do.

 

[Ironflight]

This is fascinating to me. I didn't build my plane, and I can barely fly it, but it would never have occured to me what the structural impact of that bulkhead is.

I've got much more learning to do.

Van’s engineering has weighed in on this numerous times over the year - the aft bulkhead (at least in the side-by-sides) is considered structural by the guys that designed it….. Yup, it is possible to modify it to keep things rigid, but they won’t endorse flying without it. I honestly don’t remember their stand on the Tandems…..

 

[Toobuilder]

Van’s engineering has weighed in on this numerous times over the year

And perhaps many installations are substandard, but you are not going to react shear with a few screws and big clearances at the fasteners. There is no magic force that can bridge that air gap between the shank and the edge of the hole. Shear loads require interference fit.

 

[plehrke]

And perhaps many installations are substandard, but you are not going to react shear with a few screws and big clearances at the fasteners. There is no magic force that can bridge that air gap between the shank and the edge of the hole. Shear loads require interference fit.

Even sloppy holes have some effectiveness as, once things start to deform a tiny amount, the fastener will bear up and take load. Non-interference fit holes still take sheer load they just have a knock-down factor associated to them and accounted for in the strength analysis. This is especially true with a pattern of fasteners as they don't take a lot of structure deformation for fasteners in the pattern to start to bearing up and take shear loads.
I don't know where you got the idea that this are to be sloppy holes. They are normal holes drilled for a #8 machine screw. Another clue that there is sheer load in the panel and that it is structural is that it is corrugated. If it was not taking any sheer load then it would just probably be a flat sheet as you would not need to worry about panel buckling
In the RV-6 construction instructions is this paragraph below. I am not familiar with the tandem aircraft but they are similar construction and loading so I would think this is also true for tandem RVs.
(sorry, you may need to click on the image to read the screen grab from the RV-6 construction manual)

 

[Hangar 1271]

Easy solution!

 

[Mel]

"How T Make Skis Fit"......

Step 1......Jack the airplane and remove the wheels.

Step 2......Install the skis per the installation instructions.

 

[Toobuilder]

I don't know where you got the idea that this are to be sloppy holes.

They are not “to be” sloppy…. They ARE sloppy in the many examples I’ve seen. I get there is “some” structural benefit in this installation, but it’s not to the level of primary structure. If the structure moves enough to take out the clearance of these particular fasteners, then the remainder of the system has overloaded. That’s by definition. Can’t have it both ways. The fact that we don’t tip rivets in the “upstream” load path during this deformation means those upstream fasteners are sized to carry the load by themselves. Ergo, the panel in the tandems is not required for structural considerations. As for the stamped corrugations, Common sense tells me that’s to eliminate diaphragm drumming.

All that said, I’d welcome the results of a detailed structural analysis defining the structural contribution of the rear baggage bulkhead in the tandems. I have plenty of room in my brain to get smarter.

 

[jackking123]

hobofish, this is your father... ha ha... Good gosh that is possible control interference. A shift of skis blocking rudder pedals or stick could be disastrous. Lecture switch off.

Solution, SKI TUBE through the aft baggage compartment. This is where long skis go. It would require some work, for sure. Cut hole in bulkhead, and add structure in tail section to support the tube. It is wide open. W&B CG is a consideration, so the tube is for light stuff, tent, sleeping bags, and snow or water skis, all would be fine, but W&B must be respected. Dad out. Ha ha.

 

[kibrickj]

hobofish, this is your father... ha ha... Good gosh that is possible control interference. A shift of skis blocking rudder pedals or stick could be disastrous. Lecture switch off.

Solution, SKI TUBE through the aft baggage compartment. This is where long skis go. It would require some work, for sure. Cut hole in bulkhead, and add structure in tail section to support the tube. It is wide open. W&B CG is a consideration, so the tube is for light stuff, tent, sleeping bags, and snow or water skis, all would be fine, but W&B must be respected. Dad out. Ha ha.

Thank you all for motivating me.

At least on an 8, I have my doubts there's room for the added dimensionality of a rigid tube in the far rear. That being said, I'm going forward with my solution of AN-42B eyebolts as attachments points along the tail/longerons to attach nylon webbing to form a cradle, or perhaps a loop going round the ski from each attachment point. That should give better stability in the back. Will reinforced attachment points with some angle ( rivet short angle pieces onto longhorns, and attach AN-42-b eyebolts to that). I need incremental weight in rear of rv8 anyway. I'm guessing I'll only be able to fit 1 pair of cross country skies wrapped in some sort of foam/neoprene giant sock, but at least gives options. I'd love to be able to tension down not just in the x direction (left to right), but also in the y direction too (up/down). That can be done at the rear battery tray easily for an 8, but I think i'm now out of creative solutions.

 

[plehrke]

If the structure moves enough to take out the clearance of these particular fasteners, then the remainder of the system has overloaded. That’s by definition. Can’t have it both ways. The fact that we don’t tip rivets in the “upstream” load path during this deformation means those upstream fasteners are sized to carry the load by themselves.

No structure is perfectly ridged. Wings bend all the time with no rivet issues. Look at an airliner wing in flight and they are all built with very tight tolerance holes/fasteners. Deflection is not a failure of the load path.

As for the stamped corrugations, Common sense tells me that’s to eliminate diaphragm drumming.

What causes what you call diaphragm drumming? Maybe flexing or lack of rigidity or strain or what ever word you wish to use? To have strain you must have stress. They are linearly related (until they are not).

Sorry for the thread creep.

 

[kibrickj]

Back to skis, I went ahead and built in brackets along rear longeron and a bracket in very rear for occasional ski transport (x country/light weight). It works! It was now or never. Bracket in very rear (amongst other brackets) necessary in 8 to ensure total separation of wrapped ski bag and control push rods. Brackets riveted on to longeron instead of drilling holes in longeron directly to hold an-42b eyebolts to avoid weakening longerons. Placement of skis in situ critical to strategically locating brackets and brace in very rear. Hope picture helps inspire other bat shit crazies. Still not sure if it’s genius or insanity but leaning toward the later.

 

[rv8ch]

Just throwing it out there - have you considered renting when you arrive?

 

[RV6_flyer]

When I built my RV-6 (first flight September 1997) I built a ski rack into the airplane that required the upper portion of the baggage compartment be removed to transport skis.

I have only used the ski rack once for a ski trip to Lake Tahoe. (CCB - TVL - CCB)

I knew before I made this modification that Van's Aircraft requires the aft baggage closeout be installed for flight.

Having only used the built in ski rack once and reaching an age that I feel I should give up skiing, the ski rack was removed 3-years ago.

Aft ski support:


Front ski support using cannibalized parts from a hatchback ski rack:


Yes it could hold two sets of skis but has only been used to carry one set of skis. Weight and balance was ok with ONE person and ski gear for one. Calculations with two sets of skis and two people plus other ski equipment would put the aircraft over gross and at an aft CG.

I wrote a "ski trip" report and posted it to the web decades ago. Not sure where it is now.

This is something that I did and do not recommend you do it. NO engineering calculations were done when this modification was installed.

 

[hobofish]

Just throwing it out there - have you considered renting when you arrive?

ya, ive come to the conclusion to just take my boots and rent skis.

 

[kibrickj]

Just throwing it out there - have you considered renting when you arrive?

Not an option for what I do. Backcountry cross country/snow camping...semi remote locations. In other words no rental opportunities within 100 miles. Sometimes opportunity to ship to a location, but sometimes not. Brackets weigh nothing and xcountry skis weigh very little.