We found a back door!
It is via the Home page, then AIRCRAFT, then pick RV-7 from the drop-down. On the RV-7 specific page, click on the KIT ORDER FORM oval and it brings up the order form and price.
Someone needs to go back through math class. $13.20 to $49.00 for a cowling hinge pin is not a 32% increase.
Someone needs to go back through math class. $13.20 to $49.00 for a cowling hinge pin is not a 32% increase.
Someone needs to go back through math class. $13.20 to $49.00 for a cowling hinge pin is not a 32% increase.
This surely going to effect some third party vendors that sold upgrades outside of VANS.
Here is an example where applying an arbitrary 100% price increase on parts hasn't really worked out. It feels like Vans still doesn't really have control of its prices vs costs. I get they need cash now but long term this is not a good strategy. Customer aren't going to be happy.
Matco brakes from Vans $2,520 for set of 2.
https://store.vansaircraft.com/u-00011-grove-wheels-brakes-6-x-6-00-u-00011.html
Direct from Matco who I'm sure give Vans a discount so they don't under cut
$1220 !!!
https://matcoals.com/product/whl-brk-wi600-rv-10-config/
Let's say they spend $400k a year on engineers' salaries. If they ship 650 kits a year. That's $615 per kit, a small fraction of the kit price. We have an idea what it costs to manufacture parts based on the more expensive cost of on demand manufacturing (which includes material cost, labor, plus third party profit). With cheaper in house manufacturing, I believe the SB kits could easily be much cheaper than they are and still turn a profit. But as you allude to, they have a big overhead and it seems that overhead is not directly related to kit manufacturing.
I think the big overhead problem is overstaffing and trying to be an airplane manufacturer (RV-12 + QB components) in addition to a kit manufacturer, which are really two different business models--the former having very unpredictable costs over the long production cycle. The result is that people that just want to buy sheet metal parts in a SB kit have to subsidize a huge portion of the airplane manufacturing business.
If they keep raising prices on the basic kits to keep the other parts of the business open, then they're going to have fewer and fewer customers and dwindling business, just like the other airplane manufacturers whose prices have gone up astronomically and whose customer bases have all but disappeared.
My opinion is that they need to split the business up and have each company focus on one product type and drop the intercompany subsidizing.
Yes, another good example. Literally vans overnight goes from reasonable prices to something I would almost call egregious. Clearly kit prices needed to go up to address their cost increases, but the above is pretty heavy handed and does not help their long term situation IMHO. I don't think an increase like this was reviewed and a new price set. Someone just went to the ecommerce tool and added a multiplier to the markup. I suspect most of the parts are now 100% markup. Thankfully in cases like above, we can just bypass Vans to get these parts at a fair price.
Again, not passing judgement yet, as we need to give the new leadership some time
If you look at the two links, one is matco the other is grove… not apples to apples
Surely that is a mistake on their part. Nobody is going to pay that kind of price for basic components that can be purchased almost anywhere. If its not a mistake, I am sure ACS will appreciate the increase in sales.
...Lycoming also went up about 100% since then as well. All this in 3-4 years . Whoa! It just really surprised me that it could be that drastic in 3 years.
They say a rising tide lifts all ships...
I don't think vans could afford to deal with dropping the 7 too many builders still building the kit...
Just updated: Lead times and Kit Prices page shows a 55% increase for the RV-12iS WING KIT. Previously $9,085 now $14,100.
Me thinks this is an error as other kits are approx' 32%+.
The RV-14A fuselage kit went up 61%. It was $13,100. It's now $21,150. Yikes!!!
The big problem for me? I made my "final" payment on the fuselage in August. It will be extremely painful when they contact me and ask for an additional $8,000 "final, final" payment.
Unless the finishing kit really stays at 18k to balance it out.
I'm not sure how reliable the prices are right now.
The RV-14A fuselage kit went up 61%. It was $13,100. It's now $21,150. Yikes!!!
The big problem for me? I made my "final" payment on the fuselage kit in August. It will be extremely painful when they contact me and ask for an additional $8,000 "final, final" payment.
Just updated: Lead times and Kit Prices page shows a 55% increase for the RV-12iS WING KIT. Previously $9,085 now $14,100.
Me thinks this is an error as other kits are approx' 32%+.
Still no prices for Avionic and Engines.
effective: December 10, 2023, 3:00 pm, Pacific Time
https://www.vansaircraft.com/order-a-kit/kit-prices-and-lead-times/
How much did the RV-8 slow build kits go up? I can't remember what they were before but they seem to have not changed (too much) from what I remember.
I placed my RV-8 order a few weeks ago, empennage was 2,800. Wings were 10,590. Fuselage was 11,800. All slow build pricing.
After some math, that’s 53% up on the tail, 27% on the wings, and 45% on the fuselage. I think they all include the optional trim now though etc and so the math might be a few percent one way or the other.
Thanks for that, I'm in Canada, so I must have been remembering the pricing in CAD because the numbers looked the same.
I feel your pain.... some of the price changes dont look bad till we convert it to CAD then it hurts more.
I'm so used to adding 40% to the cost of the kits that it took me a minute to notice the price change. still doable for my build but will add some time to the next purchase.
RV14
Empennage 32%
Wing 38%
Fuselage 58% !!!!
Finish 15%
Average 35%
Off website
Glad I only need the finishing kit.
Looks like no more new orders for RV3, 4, 6, 6A, and “legacy” 12. Makes sense given the costs of all the inventory required.
Why would the 7 fuse kit be 2k less than the 7A fuse kit? The other A model fuse kits aren’t a lot more expensive.
yesterday morning before it all went away again the 7A fuselage was $4500 more than the 7. They didn't add $4,500 worth of steps...
It doesn't bode well.
Whatever new management is running the show doesn't even have the nous to call folks into a room and say:
"Don't put any of these prices on the website until we've confirmed everything as final."
For all we know they may think the stuff is still hidden. All depends on there IT guys ability to test websites in sandbox mode vs live mode. He's probably been told to post the pricing and links but keep them locked and hidden till X date.
Sometimes a simple click or coding change can update and make live stuff that is hidden via the main selection options. (Kit pricing link not available but a backdoor Google search still gets you to the page)
I placed my RV-8 order a few weeks ago, empennage was 2,800. Wings were 10,590. Fuselage was 11,800. All slow build pricing.
After some math, that’s 53% up on the tail, 27% on the wings, and 45% on the fuselage. I think they all include the optional trim now though etc and so the math might be a few percent one way or the other.
Just a couple of comments on the pricing increases and part costs.
I'm working on a Fuse kit for a RV-10. I have dealt with some custom sheet aluminum manufacturing for a work project -- here are a few insights and comments:
The wing kits seems to have many parts that are the same -- ribs, etc.
The Fuse kit has many unique parts. If there are similar parts, there are only a handful, and some are mirror parts.
Manufacturing thrives on doing the same operation over and over. Minimizing machine setup also helps. Hence, larger runs of the same parts helps drive down costs. The batching method is key to doing a run of all the same parts to supply multiple kits.
Therefore, I'm not surprised at the higher cost associated with the Fuse kits. The sheer number of unique parts drives that cost.
When I simply look at the kit costs online, I'm floored at the costs, especially compared to what I could buy instead -- i.e. a new 4Runner, etc.
But after having the kit in hand and doing the inventory of the parts and looking at the various punched parts and formed, as well as the steel welded kits, I can see where the costs add up quickly.
The main reason the automotive industry is so lean is that they are building thousands of the same model, the machines are dedicated to parts, and the efficiencies they've gained through careful workflow.
just my two cents....
I’ve owned 4Runners, that thing is way too underpowered to ever fly like an RV.
Van's should publish the price of an RV6A kit shipped in 1997, based on todays prices, so everyone could see the cost of pre-punched self jigging no layout no plans reading snap together and one stop shopping. Plus a big discount on motors and props.
All of those labor saving improvements to the builder had to be paid by someone..... and now we know who was paying for them as inflation snuck in.