Running a wire from some bare metal on your airplane to the recipient tank will accomplish the same thing. IOW, your aircraft needs to be "bonded" to the storage tank. Doing that through a conductive hose is one way to do it. Note that that hose conductivity isn't necessarily an actual wire....these days it's more likely that the compounding of the hose material or the hose liner is conductive. As mentioned...the very low current passed in a static discharge means that the "bonding" path doesn't need to be particularly robust. Note that the fuel tubing that you buy off the reel at your hardware store isn't likely to be conductive.i have a 55 gal dot approved tank on a small trailer. when i fuel the plane the stg tank is grounded and the plane is bonded to the stg tank. the filler nozzle is bonded to the tank.
my question comes up about defueling the plane to the stg tank. i use 5/16'' id rubber hose. fuel moves from plane in 15' of rubber hose. thru an automotive fuel pump thru more rubber hose and into the stg tank. after reading this thread i am more uncertain about how to than before. do i run a fine copper wire inside the rubber hose? open to any suggestions.
At my airport, all aircraft fueling is done from a truck. They're happy to fuel in the hangar if the door is open. I generally push it out a bit to make it easier for them so that they don't need to unreel as much hose (the truck does need to be a certain minimum distance from the airplane).Some FBO's will fuel inside the hangar with the door open and the airplane in the front of the hangar.
I wonder what the insurance carriers think about this.....................At my airport, all aircraft fueling is done from a truck. They're happy to fuel in the hangar if the door is open.
An insurance company doesn’t have a leg to stand on unless they can show a statute was violated.
Our private airport did not. My current ground lease does not. My current insurance does not.Unless there is a provision in their policy that refuses coverage for a fire that occurred while an aircraft was fueled in a hangar.
I don't know if airport insurance policies typically have such a provision........just wondering.
No clue. I don't know what the FBO's actual policy is, as opposed to what the line guys actually do. Personally, I would have no objection to pulling it out of the hangar.I wonder what the insurance carriers think about this.....................
I asked my local airport manager about this a few years ago when I observed his line folks fueling aircraft in hangars. He agreed the airport insurance carrier most likely wouldn’t like that practice.No clue. I don't know what the FBO's actual policy is, as opposed to what the line guys actually do. Personally, I would have no objection to pulling it out of the hangar.
I have a Condo hangar at a municipal airport. Attached are the fire regulations from the city's fire department. Note the first requirement on the second page: "Flammable liquids shall not be dispensed into or removed from the fuel system of an aircraft within a hangar".I would believe the local Fire Marshal, if anybody, would have enforcement responsibilities including violations and fines.
Yup. I saw a motor yacht explode in the Lafayette River behind my house in 1975 our so. The image of that fireball was seared in my mind for months afterward. Everyone survived because they were blown clear and were able to tread water until I and several neighbors swooped in to pluck them from the water in our ski boats. They had a fuel leak in the motor box and someone flipped on the bilge blower... The boat, which burned to the waterline in minutes, was named "Boomer." Irony.Grounding to the earth could have a significant impact if the fueler approaches an open fuel tank while being grounded to earth but not the plane. When I was in a military flying club we were required to ground the truck to the earth, the plane to the earth, and the plane to the truck or pump when refueling. Those were our instructions and we followed them. I suspect that this procedure eliminates almost all risk. We also stopped fueling when lightning approached to a specified distance I believe, but my memory escapes me on the distance. Fuel vapors are dangerous critters. The danger is NOT overrated. I have not seen a plane fire from refueling but I did see a yacht flash fire due to improper fueling procedures. It WILL make a believer out of you when you see how far and fast that fuel vapor fire flame front propagates and the energy released. On the occasion of the yacht fire, I saw a person who could not swim jump overboard with the assistance of the shock wave (he was rescued). It was something I will never forget.
Heh...as I was getting my plane fueled the other day (I did push it out of hangar for the line guy), I noted that once connected, the bonding cable naturally lays on the ground thus actually grounding both the pump and airplane as well as bonding them to each other. I hadn't thought of that. Not sure if that's by design, but it's the ultimate effect.I don't see any fuel trucks at the FBO's adding another ground connection to a hangar, tie down ring or anything else. The only grounding wire goes from the fuel truck to the airplane.
Heh...as I was getting my plane fueled the other day (I did push it out of hangar for the line guy), I noted that once connected, the bonding cable naturally lays on the ground thus actually grounding both the pump and airplane as well as bonding them to each other. I hadn't thought of that. Not sure if that's by design, but it's the ultimate effect.
In this video, the girl went back into the car and sat down and then slid out without touching the door, that would have discharged the static charge she created between her pant material and the material of the seat. Polyester clothes and the right level of humidity will do it.Note that most of this discussion is focused on ensuring that voltage potential between the fill nozzle and the plane are minimized but there is another potential spark and fire risk that is seen occasionally during automobile refueling with automatic gas station nozzles. This occurs when the person fueling steps away from the pump while it's fueling, then creates a spark when they touch the nozzle again to remove it from the tank. This video is frequently shown in ESD awareness training videos:
This is something to be aware of, particularly if you are draining a tank into a fuel container, step away, then come back and touch the container! If the container is "bonded" to the aircraft, be sure to touch the aircraft in an area away from the fuel vapors before touching the fuel container!
Skylor
I've read that people of a certain age are less likely to start these fires (which almost always involve re-entering the vehicle), because as people get older they tend to grab the frame/door of the vehicle for balance and leverage when entering & exiting. So there's ONE advantage of being old I guess.In this video, the girl went back into the car and sat down and then slid out without touching the door, that would have discharged the static charge she created between her pant material and the material of the seat. Polyester clothes and the right level of humidity will do it.
Yes, but the context of this discussion is de-fueling airplanes, not filling a car in California. I actually know of a fire that ignited from fuel residue on a plane that was being prepped for wing removal during the 2022 races at Reno, semi-outdoors, and was ignited by static electricity.This is less likely to happen in California due to the vapor recovery system designed into the dispenser nozzle.