Van's Air Force
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RV-15 vs Rans Outbound S21
- Thread starter Blw2
- Start date
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
If Vans wants to fly the 15 down here, I have an S21 to compare with.
S21 has less power and less wing area (at least I think it does). Not sure of weight of the 15.
S21 is in production----
I suspect the 15 has a larger cabin.
15 landing gear is shock absorbing, 21 gear is pretty stiff.
S21 has less power and less wing area (at least I think it does). Not sure of weight of the 15.
S21 is in production----
I suspect the 15 has a larger cabin.
15 landing gear is shock absorbing, 21 gear is pretty stiff.
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The S-21 is a very nice airplane, I enjoy flying it! A grown-up Kitfox in size, and great performer with the Lycoming! The RV-15 is a much larger and heavier airplane, with significant baggage compartment capability and load hauling ability - at least how it is specked today, and will be when they have a final design.
In other words, it’s like comparing a nice Toyota car to an SUV.
Paul
In other words, it’s like comparing a nice Toyota car to an SUV.
Paul
Rans S-21
I haven't seen any comparison videos. I've been scrutinizing these models for years and created a spreadsheet comparing several aircraft using almost 40 different criteria. The S-21 is a strong contender.
The S-21 pros/cons with respect to my mission (fast cruise, long paved runways, stable in gusts). Some numbers are old or estimates:
Pros:
I haven't seen any comparison videos. I've been scrutinizing these models for years and created a spreadsheet comparing several aircraft using almost 40 different criteria. The S-21 is a strong contender.
The S-21 pros/cons with respect to my mission (fast cruise, long paved runways, stable in gusts). Some numbers are old or estimates:
Pros:
- Looks like an easy build. Estimate 900 hours.
- Low price. $207k for the finished plane. This assumes $40k avionics and Rotax 916
- Option for a fuel-sipping Rotax 915 iS or 916
- Good climb rate: 1400 fpm.
- Good range: My conservative estimate with lots of reserve is 648 nm for the S-21 vs 673 on the RV-15.
- Slow speed: 132 KTAS cruise
- Low wing loading so probably not good in gusts or as an IFR platform. 12.8 lbs/sq foot for the S-21. The RV-15 is likely 12.X lbs/sq foot depending on the final numbers.
- Plastic fuel tank behind pilot's seat, with electrical components under pilots seat. Looks like some S-21 builders have to deal with these tanks swelling or leaking. I've seen other airframers provide these spun plastic fuel tanks, but I have yet to see good data supporting their crashworthiness. A few drop tests would go a long way. Even Vans had issues with the RV-12 tanks.
As stated above, not a fair comparison, the RV-15 (looked at it at OSH) is a beast, and will be a backcountry plane. The S-21 (flew one for a year with a 915) is only backcountry capable. It is just not durable from what I felt. It was my buddies plane, I stopped flying it was soon as I started building my Bearhawk, but I tell you that plane is a mess from him flying it into gravel strips.
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
A couple of friends are building an S-21. They have experienced multiple head scratchers where the parts and plans simply don't agree. Factory support is >apparently< not of the kinder, gentler variety. Some of the choices in how the kit goes together are head scratchers for me - like the wingtips, which mount in a way that is much more challenging than necessary.
I'd bet the RV avoids most of those issues.
From an airframe standpoint, the RV is a substantially larger airplane. Probably more capable too, at least from a speed and lifting perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if the S-21 could operate out of shorter fields.
I'd bet the RV avoids most of those issues.
From an airframe standpoint, the RV is a substantially larger airplane. Probably more capable too, at least from a speed and lifting perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if the S-21 could operate out of shorter fields.
The S-21 I flew was an early factory build that had the 30’ wing, the production S-21 is a 28’ wing. A guy at my airport is building S-21, and the wing is noticeably shorter than the one I flew. Smaller wing is fast, and I would bet that was Rans reason, but the larger wing will fly slower and get into tighter spots. I took it into Marble Creek in Idaho, which is reasonably short.
rickrv8
Well Known Member
I’m building an S-21 with the airframe pretty much complete. I have to agree that it’s a somewhat apples to oranges comparison. I’ve built three RVs and a couple of Rans Couriers. The -21 is a lighter aircraft and probably not the best choice for hard back-strip operations. That being said, it should work well for my needs.
With all due respect, I am a bit perplexed by the experience of Kyle’s friends. My kit has gone together very quickly and has been very straightforward. Rans uses a different means for their construction manual and plans but they’re still very easy to follow. My “head scratching” has been minimal. Likewise, I haven’t run into any substandard issues with factory support. They’re certainly not much different than with Van’s. Rans has posted numerous how to videos along with many construction photos. If I write an email question, which is my preferred method for both Rans and Van’s, I nearly always get a response by the next day. As far as the wingtips, the mounting method is novel but honestly not that difficult. AeroSport Products offers a very nice, albeit pricey, carbon fiber tip option. They mount in the same way as the factory tips. I mounted both my tips in 9.2 hours. That’s considerably less time than the tips on my -6, -8 or -10 projects. That’s just been my direct experience.
