Paint Gun Disposable Cups System and New Paint Gun - Suggestions

[gmcjetpilot]

Been awhile since my last project. My go to in the past for primer was suction paint gun I adapted to use disposable wax free paper cups. Had to paint upright. Worked OK and was great for little job, but kind of crude. No real control. I am going to retire this. I had a good good vintage Siphon 32 oz feed Devilbiss, .. Also a pain and solvent intensive to clean up, with 32oz cup, especially for little jobs.

My current need is shooting primer (epoxy) and soon TOP COAT for cockpit area (single stage epoxy urethane).

CUPS:
I really want to use a HVLP gravity feed gun I have (cheap but good Harbor Freight) for primer..... I see disposable cup system for gravity feed guns that was not around when I was painting. Can someone give me good source for these cups and "A Primer" (pun intended) on how they work, tips and tricks. This will save on clean up.

I have a gravity feed HVLP HF gun cost me about $30 (sometimes on sale) never used it.... will use for primer. How does the cup system work, are they universal. Looks like you need adapters. Is there a standard size... or gun specific.

New Gun:
Harbor Freight has some higher end HVLP Gravity feed guns sub $200.... Suggestions. I see paint gun brands like Devilbiss HVLP for $800... Is that much better than other brands? I do like a pressure pot, might be good for painting under wing and fuselage, but that is down the road. Going for primer internal structure (selective locations) and cockpit top coat.

Any suggestion on what and where to buy, to make clean up easy and new gun good enough for top coat. Thanks

 

[RV6_flyer]

Everything I want to know about painting, I learned from The Paint Society on YouTube. Brian has videos on how to and reviews of equipment. He has recommendations for budget and professional spray guns.

 

[Bandera]

In a nutshell, the disposable cup setups are the best thing since sliced bread.

You will need a cup adapter for the brand of cup you plan on using. The cup system that Harbor Freight sells is basically the 1st generation 3M PPS cup. I have not personally used them so I can’t speak of the quality. The biggest benefit of the system is being able to use a gravity gun to spray upside down. Or at really any angle.
Some people have had good luck with Harbor Freight spray guns. I’m a Devilbiss fan myself. The Devilbiss GPG is a good all around gun at a good price.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

So I found the adapters and places to buy cups....

What size varies from 140 to 800 ml...... Obviously depends on what you are painting 100 ml to 800 ml .... I can not fill largre cups.

If my math is right 1 oz of paint per square foot? So 1 oz = 29.57 ml. A small cup will do touch ups, but you don't have to FILL the cup.

CHECK MY MATH AND MEMORY?
Painting the plane (one side of wing) is about 60 sq-ft one side. Or 60 oz or 1800 ml. The biggest cup I saw was 800 ml, so a little over two. However flight controls ball park about 10 sq-ft each both side or 280 ml. If we take one side of wing example and subtract the flight control area (one side), two 800 ml cups will do nicely.

Flight controls of doing a batch of say 2 aileron or 2 flaps or 2 elevator or 1 rudder at a time, 200 ml cup would be fine. If you want to do more in one shoot, more the better.

Also you are going to shoot in multi coats. My 1 oz per sq foot is for 3 light coats. As long as you keep going in what ever the paint system says (30 min slow activator, moderate temps) you are good.

Might be good to have two guns set up. You can stop for a bit to continue painting, when doing finish coat. A pressure pot might be the ticket for doing the outside. A helper would be nice to mix, keep hose unfouled, be another set of eyes.

Bottom line having many sizes of cups might be a good way to go. Likely going to start with 100-20 ml or about 3 to 5 oz., for small primer jobs. And then get a few 600 ml cups which seems to be the most popular large size. You hate to mix a bunch of expensive primer/paint and have to time out.

 

[wirejock]

I love my Harbor Freight Black Widow HTE. I use their adapter with 1st gen 3M PPS cups. 6oz and 20oz.

 

[mstrauss]

I also use the HF Black Widow HVLP gun, and the HF disposable cups system. I like the setup, and the cups are reasonably priced. When the next 30% off $10 and under sale comes along, stock up. I found the system to consistently seal well, with no leaks. At times, I have even reused a cup when I needed a bit more primer. I am using a 2K epoxy primer.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

I also use the HF Black Widow HVLP gun, and the HF disposable cups system. I like the setup, and the cups are reasonably priced. When the next 30% off $10 and under sale comes along, stock up. I found the system to consistently seal well, with no leaks. At times, I have even reused a cup when I needed a bit more primer. I am using a 2K epoxy primer.

Thank you and thank you for all the good tips.... I am spooled up after a few hours of study... YouTube University.... I do have a Harbor Freight cheap gravity feed HVLP. I am going to use that for primer. When I get close to top coat I will get a better gun.

I heard good things about the Black Widow and they now have a 2.0 version with fan control on back not side. Some good reviews on Youtibe. There are others that compare and are even half price. i am not going to get a "Pro" gun for $800. I think the big difference is longevity. Hobbies the less expensive gun is good enough. However PAINT prep, skill are way more important.

I bought the adapter and 30 cups in two sizes 165 x50 and 400 ml x 20 to start. I got a great deal, all up $50. I try and do larger batch jobs when priming to save on set up and clean up which is the same regardless of how much you spray..... When I do large surfaces in the future (wing, fuselage, flight controls) I will get 600 or even 800 ml cups... I may buy some primer in a can for super small touch up...

BONUS QUESTION: As I understand Lacquer thinner is best for cleaning gun? I see some recommendation by paint pros for aerosol paint gun cleaner in a can, like Naked Gun Spray Gun Paint Remover (amazon $13). Keeping your gun clean is very important.

 

[wirejock]

Thank you and thank you for all the good tips.... I am spooled up after a few hours of study... YouTube University.... I do have a Harbor Freight cheap gravity feed HVLP. I am going to use that for primer. When I get close to top coat I will get a better gun.

I heard good things about the Black Widow and they now have a 2.0 version with fan control on back not side. Some good reviews on Youtibe. There are others that compare and are even half price. i am not going to get a "Pro" gun for $800. I think the big difference is longevity. Hobbies the less expensive gun is good enough. However PAINT prep, skill are way more important.

I bought the adapter and 30 cups in two sizes 165 x50 and 400 ml x 20 to start. I got a great deal, all up $50. I try and do larger batch jobs when priming to save on set up and clean up which is the same regardless of how much you spray..... When I do large surfaces in the future (wing, fuselage, flight controls) I will get 600 or even 800 ml cups... I may buy some primer in a can for super small touch up...

BONUS QUESTION: As I understand Lacquer thinner is best for cleaning gun? I see some recommendation by paint pros for aerosol paint gun cleaner in a can, like Naked Gun Spray Gun Paint Remover (amazon $13). Keeping your gun clean is very important.

I'm sure the experts will chime in. FWIW, I prefer lacquer thinner. I keep a yorker bottle on the bench.
Between sprays, I flip the gun and pull the trigger so the paint runs back into the cup. Remove the cup. Fill the gun with lacquer thinner and work a q-tip in and out. Drain Into an old can. Refill the gun. Blow the gun clear. Refill. Then I compress the paint cup to remove air and cap. I spray coats minimum one hour apart to allow flash time. Usually three coats. Last clean up is a full disassembly after clearing the gun as above.

Not related, but I use a Mini RTI regulator at the gun. Hose then water/oil separator then regulator. I also changed all the fittings on the rig to the HF Merlin high volume quick connect fittings. The gun really lays down a ton of paint and my compressor doesn't cycle as much. They cool part is the Merlin fittings are compatible with all my existing fittings.

 

[gyoung]

Disposable cups are a good start. I use the Devilbiss Dekupps and keep all 3 sizes for different size jobs. I also bought a carton of measuring/mixing cups so they are disposable. Add some disposable scoops to get paint out of the can without mess and a squeeze bottle for gun cleaning. All the disposable stuff costs about $2 per use but I can clean my gun with little to no mess in about 5 min. with 2-3 ounces of MEK and a couple Q-tips.

 

[Mark Curley]

When you buy laquer thinner for cleaning your gun, ask the paint store for "gun wash" thinner. It's a cheaper grade of laquer thinner, costs less. I use the squeeze bottles for this, like lab bottles with a bent spout. Cuts down on waste. I cap the squeeze bottle when I'm done to reduce evaporation loss. Harbor Freight has the gun wash spray cans (3M), works great but expensive. I use it at gun tear down for final rinse.
I bought a Delvebiss gun from Spray Guns Direct for about $300. It sprays great and you can buy parts if needed later, but it's been solid for two years. Disposable cups (PPS1) from Tamcopaint.com or TCPGlobal. Harbor Freight also sells the cups in 10 packs, a little expensive compared to the box of 50 from other suppliers. Get a couple of extra holders for the cups. Be aware that there are several standards for the disposable cups and they do not interchange. Current 3M version that the pro's are using is PPS2. The other vendors sell a genaric PPS1 type. And as Greg mentioned there is Decups. Probably others that I am not aware of.

 

[wirejock]

Measuring tip...
If you can find them.
50ml, plastic, catheter tip syringe
The syringe pulls paint right from the can already measured. I use rubber-less to avoid silicone contamination.
The viscous fluids like catalyst or reducer are measured with standard syringes with no plunger.
Just hold a finger over the tip.
The only waste is a tiny bit of paint in the catheter tip. I clean them and reuse till they won't function.

 

[flyxpl]

Can’t go wrong with. 3m PPS Cups . I use both Sata and Iwata . I mix in the PPS cups . No need to use a mixing cup and then dump into PPS . I prefer to mix material on a scale for better accuracy , especially with small amounts .

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Great tips everyone. Thanks.

I ordered an adapter, measure cups/rings in two sizers 165ml and 400ml. I also bought the liners and caps. They look to be good quality with micro screen cap. I was going to buy Amazon but I went with China mail order to get two sizes & quantity I wanted.

When I get closer to do large parts (wing, fuselage) I will get the bigger 600 ml (20 oz) cups. Assume 0.50oz per sq-ft. That is 40 sq-feet. Almost enough to do one side of wing (no flight controls).

They do make 800 ml size, but that might be a bit unwieldy.

 

[mstrauss]

HF 30% off $10 and under sale going on this weekend. Good time to stock upon some paint cups.

 

[PaulvS]

Great tips everyone. Thanks.

I ordered an adapter, measure cups/rings in two sizers 165ml and 400ml. I also bought the liners and caps. They look to be good quality with micro screen cap. I was going to buy Amazon but I went with China mail order to get two sizes & quantity I wanted.

When I get closer to do large parts (wing, fuselage) I will get the bigger 600 ml (20 oz) cups. Assume 0.50oz per sq-ft. That is 40 sq-feet. Almost enough to do one side of wing (no flight controls).

They do make 800 ml size, but that might be a bit unwieldy.

There is a little detail to plan for (that I don't think has been mentioned above) which is that the lids are available with different screen micron ratings. In the case of the epoxy primer that I use, it requires a coarser 190 micron screen, versus the polyurethane top coat that works with a finer 125 micron screen. The primer will not flow through the finer screen and it just blocks up, whereas the top coat can pass through the coarser screen, however some small junk might not get trapped and would end up in the finish.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

There is a little detail to plan for (that I don't think has been mentioned above) which is that the lids are available with different screen micron ratings. In the case of the epoxy primer that I use, it requires a coarser 190 micron screen, versus the polyurethane top coat that works with a finer 125 micron screen. The primer will not flow through the finer screen and it just blocks up, whereas the top coat can pass through the coarser screen, however some small junk might not get trapped and would end up in the finish.

Oh now you tell me.... Ha ha. So I looked at specs and no where is it mentioned. I sent message to vendor. I have paper funnel filters I believe are 190 micron . The caps I have are finer than 190 micron if I trust the paper cone filters. The Amazon disposable cup caps list 125 micron typically. So I assume that is what I have... Mine are mighty fine, so likely 125 micron.

I poured lacquer thinner through the cap filter and it flowed, no shock..... I am spraying epoxy urethrae primer first for internal protection, not to be top coated. So I may need to get new caps. Dang. I can reduce primer 10% and thin it out a tad. But good tip. If I have flow issues I will now know.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

HF 30% off $10 and under sale going on this weekend. Good time to stock upon some paint cups.

Yes this is the 20 oz for refills. The sale is good for items under $10 for the refills. That kit with outer cup and ring is over $10 and not on sale. They are 125 micron which may be an issue according to PaulvS.... suggesting 190 might be a better match for epoxy primers? That is a great price on the refill and likely to buy it just to have...

 

[mstrauss]

Yes this is the 20 oz for refills. The sale is good for items under $10 for the refills. That kit with outer cup and ring is over $10 and not on sale. They are 125 micron which may be an issue according to PaulvS.... suggesting 190 might be a better match for epoxy primers? That is a great price on the refill and likely to buy it just to have...

Not sure about the primer you are using. The Enduro 2K Primer (Kirker) I'm using, has no issue flowing through the HF cup built in filters.

 

[wirejock]

Not sure about the primer you are using. The Enduro 2K Primer (Kirker) I'm using, has no issue flowing through the HF cup built in filters.

I have always used the 3M PPS 1.0 with 200 micron lids. Never had a problem with contaminates passing the filter. I also shoot Kirker. It obviously passes 200 micron no problem.
By the way, I usually calculate 2.5 ft² per mixed ounce of paint per coat. I have an Excel epoxy/paint calculator.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Not sure about the primer you are using. The Enduro 2K Primer (Kirker) I'm using, has no issue flowing through the HF cup built in filters.

Yep same primer. I just bought the HF 600 ml kit (on sale), and the filter in caps are identical to the ones I already bought from China, 125 micron. Thanks for the info, good to know..... We shall see. Spraying the Kirker Euro primer for the first time in a week or two. My plan is if the primer does not flow, remove screen in cap (or punch holes in with needle) for primer.

Once paint is mixed and filtered once, it does not "need" to be filtered again in gun again for primer. My story and sticking too it. This primer at this point is for corrosion protection not top coat prep. Most spray guns, suction or gravity with standard cup that came with the gun had no internal filters, and many still don't have internal filter. If they do have a cup filter, it pops into bottom of cup removable for cleaning, and most painters often remove them. It does not good for the flow.

You can get contamination in your supply air, your paint "booth" or lack there of, surface prep or lack there of, bug, etc.... I do not think filtering the paint mix twice, before putting in gun and again inside the gun via the cap, is critical for what I am doing at this point. I will get 190 micon caps in the future for top coat. I will make what I bought work.

Doing more research the 190 micon is better over all for solvent based paints. If you are hot rod painter, into metal flakes and pearls (with mica flakes) you might need 260 or no filter I am assuming. I am going solid color so no need to worry about flakes. From the googles & webs....

125 Micron (0.0049") – Waterborne Paints
150 Micron (0.0059") – Waterborne Paints
190 Micron (0.0075") – Solvent Based
260 Micron (0.0102") – Solvent Based

I have always used the 3M PPS 1.0 with 200 micron lids. Never had a problem with contaminates passing the filter. I also shoot Kirker. It obviously passes 200 micron no problem.
By the way, I usually calculate 2.5 ft² per mixed ounce of paint per coat. I have an Excel epoxy/paint calculator.

Great tip and info.... thanks

 

[wirejock]

Yep same primer. I just bought the HF 600 ml kit (on sale), and the filter in caps are identical to the ones I already bought from China, 125 micron. Thanks for the info, good to know..... We shall see. Spraying the Kirker Euro primer for the first time in a week or two. My plan is if the primer does not flow, remove screen in cap (or punch holes in with needle) for primer.

Once paint is mixed and filtered once, it does not "need" to be filtered again in gun again for primer. My story and sticking too it. This primer at this point is for corrosion protection not top coat prep. Most spray guns, suction or gravity with standard cup that came with the gun had no internal filters, and many still don't have internal filter. If they do have a cup filter, it pops into bottom of cup removable for cleaning, and most painters often remove them. It does not good for the flow.

You can get contamination in your supply air, your paint "booth" or lack there of, surface prep or lack there of, bug, etc.... I do not think filtering the paint mix twice, before putting in gun and again inside the gun via the cap, is critical for what I am doing at this point. I will get 190 micon caps in the future for top coat. I will make what I bought work.

Doing more research the 190 micon is better over all for solvent based paints. If you are hot rod painter, into metal flakes and pearls (with mica flakes) you might need 260 or no filter I am assuming. I am going solid color so no need to worry about flakes. From the googles & webs....

125 Micron (0.0049") – Waterborne Paints
150 Micron (0.0059") – Waterborne Paints
190 Micron (0.0075") – Solvent Based
260 Micron (0.0102") – Solvent Based


Great tip and info.... thanks

I bet it flows just fine.

Kirker EnduroPrime can be reduced up to 15%. I use the slowest reducer and cut 5-10% for spraying. They are really good about answering the Tech Line.

Tip...
EnduroPrime is an excellent high build primer for fiberglass. One of my finishing steps is two coats neat (no reducer) brushed on 60 minutes apart. Roller works too but leaves too much texture to sand.

Another tip.
Always wait minimum 60 minutes between coats if spraying more than one coat of any Kirker paint. Flash time. I found out the hard way. Looked like really bad acne.