EarthX Overload Protection tripped while starting

[grubbat]

My io360 has a skytec starter and the cold morning air (40degf) was a bit too much for the EarthX. Normally it spins the starter almost fast enough to taxi. However on this morning, when starting the engine, at the compression stroke the EarthX overload prevention relay kicked in and wham, no power. Everything went dead. No juice for the avionics, no juice for the pmags, nothing. Propping it off was not an option due to the pmags not having any power. What to do? Push rv back into the cold hangar, find an extension cord and the battery charger, put a charger on the EarthX till the internal BMS overload protect relay re-engauges, then unhook everything, push back out of the hangar, and try to crank. Second time it cranks right up. The rest of the day everything was normal. All fast cranks. One week later, it repeats itself. So, either my starter is getting older and pulling more amps on start, loose connection somewhere, or EarthX is wearing out. While I like the EarthX cranking power and light weight, the thought of it tripping its internal relay somewhere other than home or worse, in mid air, is not pleasant.

Maybe I need to look at a possible second “standard” battery (pc680) setup that I use as a backup. Or maybe use the pc680 as primary and use the EarthX as the backup. Either way, this problem ain’t gonna fix itself. It’s just gonna get worse when cold weather comes. I guess a third option is heat the motor and oil up first. However, that uncontrollable EarthX internal BMS relay is starting to work on my nerves.

 

[Freemasm]

My io360 has a skytec starter and the cold morning air (40degf) was a bit too much for the EarthX. Normally it spins the starter almost fast enough to taxi. However on this morning, when starting the engine, at the compression stroke the EarthX overload prevention relay kicked in and wham, no power. Everything went dead. No juice for the avionics, no juice for the pmags, nothing. Propping it off was not an option due to the pmags not having any power. What to do? Push rv back into the cold hangar, find an extension cord and the battery charger, put a charger on the EarthX till the internal BMS overload protect relay re-engauges, then unhook everything, push back out of the hangar, and try to crank. Second time it cranks right up. The rest of the day everything was normal. All fast cranks. One week later, it repeats itself. So, either my starter is getting older and pulling more amps on start, loose connection somewhere, or EarthX is wearing out. While I like the EarthX cranking power and light weight, the thought of it tripping its internal relay somewhere other than home or worse, in mid air, is not pleasant.

Maybe I need to look at a possible second “standard” battery (pc680) setup that I use as a backup. Or maybe use the pc680 as primary and use the EarthX as the backup. Either way, this problem ain’t gonna fix itself. It’s just gonna get worse when cold weather comes. I guess a third option is heat the motor and oil up first. However, that uncontrollable EarthX internal BMS relay is starting to work on my nerves.

Broken record to follow

Chances are greater, IMO that it’s a component or connection other than the starter. If you haven’t performed this TS procedure

https://skytec.aero/aircraft-starter-performance-issues/

you should. High losses across the start solenoid (common) manifest itself like you describe. The starter is gonna draw the required wattage. You want as much electrical potential as possible where it’s needed. Let us know.

 

[Traash]

A few more questions....
How cold was it? Did you internally warm the battery by loading it up prior to start? How long did you crank? Have you done a recent capacity test? Any fault light indication? Does your fault light circuit work? Was it fully charged prior to start attempt? What voltage is indicated while cranking? Have you researched the FAQ section of the website? Have you called Earthex?

 

[scottmillhouse]

Had the same problem with cold start this Fall at Petit Jean fly-in after sitting a few days. The battery will reset on its own after a couple of minutes and you can try again. After a couple try’s, I repositioned the prop so it was not on compression stroke and success. Talked to EarthX and checked everything came to conclusion that at 5 years time to replace for reliability. They did say that letting it warm up by leaving the master engaged for a few minutes before cranking helped in cold weather. New battery cranks quickly no matter temperature. Old EarthX cranks my riding mower like there is no tomorrow.

 

[RVDan]

My io360 has a skytec starter and the cold morning air (40degf) was a bit too much for the EarthX. Normally it spins the starter almost fast enough to taxi. However on this morning, when starting the engine, at the compression stroke the EarthX overload prevention relay kicked in and wham, no power. Everything went dead. No juice for the avionics, no juice for the pmags, nothing. Propping it off was not an option due to the pmags not having any power. What to do? Push rv back into the cold hangar, find an extension cord and the battery charger, put a charger on the EarthX till the internal BMS overload protect relay re-engauges, then unhook everything, push back out of the hangar, and try to crank. Second time it cranks right up. The rest of the day everything was normal. All fast cranks. One week later, it repeats itself. So, either my starter is getting older and pulling more amps on start, loose connection somewhere, or EarthX is wearing out. While I like the EarthX cranking power and light weight, the thought of it tripping its internal relay somewhere other than home or worse, in mid air, is not pleasant.

Maybe I need to look at a possible second “standard” battery (pc680) setup that I use as a backup. Or maybe use the pc680 as primary and use the EarthX as the backup. Either way, this problem ain’t gonna fix itself. It’s just gonna get worse when cold weather comes. I guess a third option is heat the motor and oil up first. However, that uncontrollable EarthX internal BMS relay is starting to work on my nerves.

Which Earthx battery do you have? That certainly could make a difference if the battery was undersized.

 

[DanH]

No preheat, thick oil. Multi-grade or straight?

 

[EarthX Lithium]

However, that uncontrollable EarthX internal BMS relay is starting to work on my nerves.

Hello Craig,
I would like to stress that the BMS is there for a reason, and it will only be activated when it is programmed to do so. May I ask what battery model you have and how old is the battery, there is a date code on the backside of the negative terminal, a letter and some numbers, what is that?

Do you have the LED fault light connected into your EFIS or on your panel? Based on what you described, you would have received a solid LED light that would have remained on for about 3 minutes as the voltage will have dropped below the 5V at engine start which can be caused by: 1. a short (least likely but possible if you have a bad starter), or 2. cold temperatures as this will reduce the amount of cranking power (same as all batteries) so the voltage drops more or lower, or 3. age of the battery.

As batteries age, they crank less, and drop voltage more at engine start. Cold temperature will make this worse. The BMS is designed to alert you to investigate as to why this happened. The BMS resets itself after this period of time, 3 minutes. There was no need to connect a charger and this is not what made the plane start on the second attempt. The battery was then warmed up and the voltage dip was not enough to have the BMS to disconnect the next time you tried to start the plane. Another reason why I do not think this is a starter or short issue, they are not typically intermittent.

The BMS is alerting you to take action. I would anticipate it is age that is causing this and it is time for a replacement. You can absolutely still use this battery for say.....a riding lawn mower as SCOTTMILLHOUSE has done, or if the battery is newer, then verify the starter is not bad and make sure that you have good connections to the battery as stated earlier in the thread.

The BMS is like your seat belt reminder in your car if you did not use it, it will give you a chime (alert) to encourage you to take action. This is a huge feature that is available to you to keep you from being stranded......if you pay attention to it.

 

[grubbat]

Hello Craig,
I would like to stress that the BMS is there for a reason, and it will only be activated when it is programmed to do so. May I ask what battery model you have and how old is the battery, there is a date code on the backside of the negative terminal, a letter and some numbers, what is that?

Do you have the LED fault light connected into your EFIS or on your panel? Based on what you described, you would have received a solid LED light that would have remained on for about 3 minutes as the voltage will have dropped below the 5V at engine start which can be caused by: 1. a short (least likely but possible if you have a bad starter), or 2. cold temperatures as this will reduce the amount of cranking power (same as all batteries) so the voltage drops more or lower, or 3. age of the battery.

As batteries age, they crank less, and drop voltage more at engine start. Cold temperature will make this worse. The BMS is designed to alert you to investigate as to why this happened. The BMS resets itself after this period of time, 3 minutes. There was no need to connect a charger and this is not what made the plane start on the second attempt. The battery was then warmed up and the voltage dip was not enough to have the BMS to disconnect the next time you tried to start the plane. Another reason why I do not think this is a starter or short issue, they are not typically intermittent.

The BMS is alerting you to take action. I would anticipate it is age that is causing this and it is time for a replacement. You can absolutely still use this battery for say.....a riding lawn mower as SCOTTMILLHOUSE has done, or if the battery is newer, then verify the starter is not bad and make sure that you have good connections to the battery as stated earlier in the thread.

The BMS is like your seat belt reminder in your car if you did not use it, it will give you a chime (alert) to encourage you to take action. This is a huge feature that is available to you to keep you from being stranded......if you pay attention to it.

Hi,
I appreciate all the responses. I hadn’t had a chance to decowl the -9 to see the battery date and model yet but I will. When I do, I’ll be sure to follow up. I like the idea of using it for the lawn mower once the RV is done with it. My starter is new and wiring is good, and starter relays are good. It was 30deg out that morning after having dipped down to around 15degf overnight so I’m pretty confident that the temp, battery age, and oil viscosity played a factor. Funny thing is that I had my friend prop it off rather than starting and it only took a half dozen attempts. We made the trip to 08A to visit my grandbaby and she started normal on the way back.

Once again, thanks for all the input and maybe one day someone will be helped by this post.

Craig

 

[scrollF4]

The subject of cold EarthX batteries needing to warm up has been discussed in these fora before. For my cold morning starts with my ETX900, before I crank I turn on my 10 amp pitot heat for about 10 seconds (then turn it off). That load seems to "wake up" my EarthX: The starter churns the engine to life right away. This with a >4 year old EarthX.

I love these batteries.

 

[toc pilot]

Hi,

I have an EarthX battery in my RV-7 with an AEIO-390x and this happened to me 2 days ago. I have been flying with this battery since 2017 (this is my 2nd one in the plane) and this can happen occasionally when it is cold outside. I believe this has happened a total of 3 times with me. It is a result of the battery being a bit too cold. With everything cold and tight the start sequence pulls too many amps through the battery and it pop's the internal battery circuit. The battery will reset itself in about 3 minutes time, so there is no need to take the cowl off or put the battery on charge. BTW, after my battery reset itself, I was able to start my plane easily. No issues. I didnt even get out of the plane.

Thing that will help prevent this....
1. Hand prop the engine over a few times before getting in the plane
2. Have a pre-heater to warm the engine prior to flying.
3. Prior to starting for the first time in the cold morning, turn your Master On/Avionics On/ Nav lights and wait a few minutes before attempting the start. The Current needed to supply those systems will start to warm the battery from within. Right before start, turn your lights off and then start.

BTW, I live in Arizona and work in Southern Cal. A few days ago the temp was in the low 40's so it was not all that cold but enough that the battery just couldn't perform.

 

[dmattmul]

My io360 has a skytec starter and the cold morning air (40degf) was a bit too much for the EarthX. Normally it spins the starter almost fast enough to taxi. However on this morning, when starting the engine, at the compression stroke the EarthX overload prevention relay kicked in and wham, no power. Everything went dead. No juice for the avionics, no juice for the pmags, nothing. Propping it off was not an option due to the pmags not having any power. What to do? Push rv back into the cold hangar, find an extension cord and the battery charger, put a charger on the EarthX till the internal BMS overload protect relay re-engauges, then unhook everything, push back out of the hangar, and try to crank. Second time it cranks right up. The rest of the day everything was normal. All fast cranks. One week later, it repeats itself. So, either my starter is getting older and pulling more amps on start, loose connection somewhere, or EarthX is wearing out. While I like the EarthX cranking power and light weight, the thought of it tripping its internal relay somewhere other than home or worse, in mid air, is not pleasant.

Maybe I need to look at a possible second “standard” battery (pc680) setup that I use as a backup. Or maybe use the pc680 as primary and use the EarthX as the backup. Either way, this problem ain’t gonna fix itself. It’s just gonna get worse when cold weather comes. I guess a third option is heat the motor and oil up first. However, that uncontrollable EarthX internal BMS relay is starting to work on my nerves.

Which Skytec starter are you using? The LS is a known amp hog and has killed off many batteries. (Normally not Earth-X)