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Garmin AXIS, Next Generation Integrated Flight Display

Hi G3xpert,

I’m not sure if you saw it, but several of us are planning the upgrade and have questions about the power inputs. As not to derail this thread, I’ve put it into another thread. We would love your input when you get a minute:

 
Ok it's clear to me that I'm going to connect some items to some screens via HSDB. But for anything with only one HSDB connection to one screen, that screen becomes a single point of failure.

Does it make sense to also wire CAN bus to my transponder and radio as a backup to the HSDB connections? Will the CAN bus allow communication to the remaining display if the display with the HSDB connection is down?
This really depends on the specific combination of equipment you are installing.

For any system with a single IFR navigator, you have a single point of failure for IFR GPS/NAV. Many will opt for the addition of a secondary source of navigation in the form of another AXIS display or external navigator.

Transponders do not connect to the system via CAN. You are able to connect them via RS-232 to the GSU 25, which has always been a single connection for that data. If you have a second GDU 25 in an AXIS system, you can actually create a second connection for this path.

The failure of an HSDB/CAN connection to a panel mount GTR 205 only has the effect of eliminating the remote control of the radio from the AXIS display. For Remote Mount GTR's, the radio is placed into a failsafe mode allowing you to continue using the radio, in the absence of the display head for the unit. Of course with no control over the active frequency of that radio.

Correct, but a couple things (if I'm understanding correctly, big if). To get full redundant G5 functionality still requires the ARINC interface. While the backup batter is nice, that is easily handled with an IBBS or two. I'm sure we will get answers soon. The idea of a three panel setup is appealing, but only if it has a reasonable level of backup.
Others have followed on with good comments on this topic, and we strongly recommend a standby flight display for aircraft to be flown into IMC. With a built in ADAHRS, different in both software and hardware, from the primary ADAHRS that drives your AXIS Primary Flight Display, you reduce the likelihood that you would find yourself with out your instruments. The backup battery strapped directly to the unit also reduces the unit's reliance on the main electrical system of the aircraft and eliminates some faults that can happen with that system.

There are a lot of permutations of AXIS system architecture, given the various generations of equipment the AXIS display can support. Whether a GAD 29 is required/suggested depends on the equipment present in the rest of the system. In most cases, wiring ARINC 429 from an external navigator through a GAD 29 (or GSU 73) is beneficial from a system redundancy standpoint.

I have a two G3X Touch 8"portrait displays with a GSU73, and a GMU44. If I upgrade the two screens to the new Axis 8" portrait screens, other than the faster processor, upgraded graphics (eye candy) etc., am I gaining any additional "functions" that I don't already have?

Thanks,

Christer
Top of mind, Runway Occupancy Awareness is one really great safety feature that comes along with AXIS. The ability to modify the flight plan of a cross-side IFR Navigator is a really great improvement as well. I think you would take great interest in the Logic Signal Editor that is baked into AXIS configuration mode as well. We will continue to add capability to that function over time, which is very powerful out of the gate. The new platform and display of course unlock a long future of development that was otherwise not feasible in previous generations of hardware.

I’m no expert on this but my understanding of the system architecture is that with the NC version you have effectively separate LRUs in one box, and each LRU has an independent power supply.

So with 2 screens, one NC and one BX, if the screen on the NC fails the other LRUs in the NC box will be available on the BX. So the NAV/COM functions should still be available.

Can someone correct me if I’m wrong, because this is the set-up I’m hoping to run.
If the NAV/COM/AUDIO board fails, your AXIS GPS board is capable of continuing to operate.

If the Main board fails, but the NAV/COM/AUDIO board is still operating, Audio and COM revert to a fail safe state and continue to operate with no access to the active frequency of the COM radio. You would lose NAV and GPS. For any system with a single IFR navigator, you have a single point of failure for IFR GPS/NAV. Many will opt for the addition of a secondary source of navigation in the form of another AXIS display or external navigator.

Regarding reliability, seems like 2 Bx screens and a GTNxi (650 or 750) are better than one NC and one Bx as it eliminates the NC as a single point com/nav failure. Am I missing something?
In both combinations of equipment, the single IFR GPS/NAV in the system is a single point failure.

In both systems described, if the IFR GPS fails, VFR GPS remains on the at least one of the two AXIS displays.

In neither of the systems described do you retain IFR GPS, in the case of a IFR GPS source failure.

In the first example, you would retain IFR GPS in the case that PFD1 failed, which is not true for the second example in which would fail down to VFR GPS. A second external navigator (GNC 215 NAV/COM or GNX 375 GPS/XPDR for example) or GDU 116C would protect you against the single point failure inherent to having only 1 IFR Navigator in the aircraft.

Given the particularly strong admonitions to save/record your G3X fuel calibrations, is there a method for installing them by download, (for four tanks it's a bunch of data/info - numbers, colors, etc.) or will they also need to be manually typed in like apparently all other settings and configurations?
Yes, fuel calibration files written from a G3X Touch system can be directly imported to the AXIS system.

At this time, the rest of configuratoin must be entered manually.

G3Xpert,
There is a disparity between the Installation Manual and Garmin's current software version for the G5. In preparing the AXIS upgrade from the G3X in Appendix F, the instructions are quite clear about ensuring all installed LRUs are loaded with their most recent software versions; otherwise, the AXIS system will not be able to interface correctly. For the G5, the minimum software version should be v8.70:

However, Garmin's most recent version is only v8.60:


Is another release coming soon? Thanks for reconciling this discrepancy.
We are in the process of releasing these software versions this week.
 
G3Xpert,
There is a disparity between the Installation Manual and Garmin's current software version for the G5. In preparing the AXIS upgrade from the G3X in Appendix F, the instructions are quite clear about ensuring all installed LRUs are loaded with their most recent software versions; otherwise, the AXIS system will not be able to interface correctly. For the G5, the minimum software version should be v8.70:

However, Garmin's most recent version is only v8.60:


Is another release coming soon? Thanks for reconciling this discrepancy.
wow, good catch
 
@g3xpert I assume you are also releasing the needed GTN Xi software (21.11) this week as the current published version is 21.04 (only got published to the experimental page yesterday)?
We are in the process of releasing the necessary software versions from the compatibility table in the IM this week.
 
During the announcement it was said that future features like XM would be coming. Can you provide some guidance on it is going to be an add-on module or simply a software update. It wasn't clear if the hardware was already there and it would be enabled later via software or if it was a module that would be added. So, I have a GDU 465 and utilize the XM feature on every flight, both weather and radio, and would love to upgrade to Axis but want to know what I'm giving up and for how long... also, any possible hints as to costs associated if it's a hardware module. I know I can buy a GDL but I really love the built-in XM within GDU 465.

Thx
 
G3Xpert, I'm a bit surprised that the GDL-51R is not listed as compatible when the GDL-52R, of which it is a subset, is compatible. Is it simply a matter of not having been tested?
 
During the announcement it was said that future features like XM would be coming. Can you provide some guidance on it is going to be an add-on module or simply a software update. It wasn't clear if the hardware was already there and it would be enabled later via software or if it was a module that would be added. So, I have a GDU 465 and utilize the XM feature on every flight, both weather and radio, and would love to upgrade to Axis but want to know what I'm giving up and for how long... also, any possible hints as to costs associated if it's a hardware module. I know I can buy a GDL but I really love the built-in XM within GDU 465.

Thx
I didn't know there was a version of the G3X that had an XM receiver. I would be very happy to add that functionality to my Axis asap. I have a GDL39, which I know is not going to get ADSB into the Axis, so now I am weighing my options, between a GDL52R, or replacing my old GTX320 xpndr and my uAvionix tailbeacon and getting a GNX375. If I can get XM native on the Axis, then that rules out the GDL.
 
G3Xpert, I'm a bit surprised that the GDL-51R is not listed as compatible when the GDL-52R, of which it is a subset, is compatible. Is it simply a matter of not having been tested?
t, I'm a bit surprised that the GDL-51R is not listed as compatible when the GDL-52R, of which it is a subset, is compatible. Is it simply a matter of not having been tested?
During the announcement it was said that future features like XM would be coming. Can you provide some guidance on it is going to be an add-on module or simply a software update. It wasn't clear if the hardware was already there and it would be enabled later via software or if it was a module that would be added. So, I have a GDU 465 and utilize the XM feature on every flight, both weather and radio, and would love to upgrade to Axis but want to know what I'm giving up and for how long... also, any possible hints as to costs associated if it's a hardware module. I know I can buy a GDL but I really love the built-in XM within GDU 465.

Thx

GDL 51(R) and 52(R) SXM support is in progress. There is not an AXIS variant that includes a built in SXM Receiver, we are relying on the GDL series to support this datastream.
 
I noticed a deluge of G3X touch screens going on sale on the classifieds. Are builders dumping them so they can upgrade to the new Axis units. Nothing wrong with that, I was just wondering.
I’m certainly considering it. If I could get $4,000 for my 2 large G3X touch panels I’d upgrade to Axis.
 
I’m certainly considering it. If I could get $4,000 for my 2 large G3X touch panels I’d upgrade to Axis.
With the supply in the market of the G3X screens way outpacing demand, I fear the market price will be much lower.

I will have 2 GDU myself to sell here shorty…so I’m in the same boat as all the others. Never turned on by me…since receiving my panel…🤕
 
It is listed as supported in the installation manual. Page Page 3-18.
GDL 51(R) and 52(R) SXM support is in progress. There is not an AXIS variant that includes a built in SXM Receiver, we are relying on the GDL series to support this datastream.
I had likely seen that the -51R was listed as compatible in the Installation Manual several days ago but forgot. I just got into the Pilot's Guide today where only the GDL-50/50R and GDL-52/52R are listed as compatible. Okay, I'll just be patient (I don't do that well 😊).

Edited to correct spelling.
 
We will continue to sell G3X Touch displays and support new installations, including periodic software updates. We understand it is frustrating. The backend LRU's are largely unchanged, so upgrading from G3X Touch to AXIS Base displays is a relatively low burden from an installation standpoint.



If there were an unlikely failure of the HSDB network, the ARINC 429 > G5 path provides an alternate way for that information to be displayed to the pilot. You are correct however, there is a lot of redundancy built into a dual AXIS display installation, with GTN Xi connected directly to each display via HSDB.
We will continue to sell G3X Touch displays and support new installations, including periodic software updates. We understand it is frustrating. The backend LRU's are largely unchanged, so upgrading from G3X Touch to AXIS Base displays is a relatively low burden from an installation standpoint.



If there were an unlikely failure of the HSDB network, the ARINC 429 > G5 path provides an alternate way for that information to be displayed to the pilot. You are correct however, there is a lot of redundancy built into a dual AXIS display installation, with GTN Xi connected directly to each display via HSDB.
An additional comment/s for the benefit of Garmin management as well as the active homebuilder community.

First (and again), want to acknowledge the great work you are doing and thank you for maintaining backward compatibility to the extent done so to date. One correction/statement....the switch out to AXIS base displays IS likely a very low burden for most customers. Well done. That is not the case for all (like in particular this customer with a very tight fitting Vans RV 8, with little clearance behind the panel towards the engine). Although some of us were/are hesitant to go Garmin compared to the competition due to excellent customer support elsewhere, you make a well designed and documented product. Kudos especially to your documentation in general.

The simplest solution as previously stated to minimize the inevitable challenges associated with long build times of homebuilders and the product improvement process is to communicate much earlier upcoming product changes (at least for experimental aircraft builders). Again, Garmin can make great products, get paid well for doing so, and still coordinate and partner with the homebuilding community with more proactive communication which is cheap. Additionally, and certainly in the absence of an improved and proactive communication process of Garmin's roadmap (again, at least for the homebuilder segment), offer an extended and pragmatic trade-in policy for experimental products to better align with that segment so active builders partner and plan with Garmin for each other's mutual success. The existing exchange policy of 45 or 90? days (second hand information) may be fine for most segments, but not realistically for active builders. Certainly various tech companies offer trade-in's, and Garmin could certainly offer a substantive discount for a trade it (which is all the more appropriate if there isn't better communication of product development roadmaps).

It's absolutely true that Garmin is doing a great job in where it is going with its product development, but that doesn't mean customer service and communication couldn't be better. Not being negative....Just experiencing opportunities for continuous improvement.


We will continue to sell G3X Touch displays and support new installations, including periodic software updates. We understand it is frustrating. The backend LRU's are largely unchanged, so upgrading from G3X Touch to AXIS Base displays is a relatively low burden from an installation standpoint.



If there were an unlikely failure of the HSDB network, the ARINC 429 > G5 path provides an alternate way for that information to be displayed to the pilot. You are correct however, there is a lot of redundancy built into a dual AXIS display installation, with GTN Xi connected directly to each display via HSDB.
An additional comment/s for the benefit of Garmin management as well as the active homebuilder community.

First (and again), want to acknowledge the great work you are doing and thank you for maintaining backward compatibility to the extent done so to date. One correction/statement....the switch out to AXIS base displays IS likely a very low burden for most customers. Well done. That is not the case for all (like in particular this customer with a very tight fitting Vans RV 8, with little clearance behind the panel towards the engine). Although some of us were/are hesitant to go Garmin compared to the competition due to excellent customer support elsewhere, you make a well designed and documented product. Kudos especially to your documentation in general.
The simplest solution as previously stated to minimize the inevitable challenges associated with long build times of homebuilders and the product improvement process is to communicate much earlier upcoming product changes (at least for experimental aircraft builders). Again, Garmin can make great products, get paid well for doing so, and still coordinate and partner with the homebuilding community with more proactive communication which is cheap. Additionally, and certainly in the absence of an improved and proactive communication process of Garmin's roadmap (again, at least for the homebuilder segment), offer an extended and pragmatic trade-in policy for experimental products to better align with that segment so active builders partner and plan with Garmin for each other's mutual success. The existing exchange policy of 45 or 90? days (second hand information) may be fine for most segments, but not realistically for active builders. Certainly various tech companies offer trade-in's, and Garmin could certainly offer a substantive discount for a trade it (which is all the more appropriate if there isn't better communication of product development roadmaps).

It's absolutely true that Garmin is doing a great job in where it is going with its product development, but that doesn't mean customer service and communication couldn't be better. Not being negative....Just experiencing opportunities for continuous improvement. I'm looking at months of very custom building get tossed out the window, not because I want to upgrade, but because I should do what I can do to best future proof aircraft before the skins on top go on forever.
 
GDL 51(R) and 52(R) SXM support is in progress. There is not an AXIS variant that includes a built in SXM Receiver, we are relying on the GDL series to support this datastream.
Thanks for this info That makes me reconsider the gnx 375, as I am not ifr rated anyway and I was just needing a new adsb in source. The 375 is still appealing since my gtx320 doesn't speak to the axis, it wondering: is the gdl51R the best sxm solution out there that does weather and radio but doesn't include adsb? Is there one that doesn't even have a gps that costs less?
 
Thanks for this info That makes me reconsider the gnx 375, as I am not ifr rated anyway and I was just needing a new adsb in source. The 375 is still appealing since my gtx320 doesn't speak to the axis, it wondering: is the gdl51R the best sxm solution out there that does weather and radio but doesn't include adsb? Is there one that doesn't even have a gps that costs less?
I love my -375!! For my needs - I didn't need the 650 or 750. So the smaller navigator fit the bill perfectly in my -8.
 
I too think this is a brilliant effort by Garmin producing a new product and ensuring a high level of integration with existing products.
Do not know how you kept it quiet and built up stock levels but great !

While forward looking product statements would be nice I can see how too much information would be commercially suicidal.
I would probably be annoyed if I had just purchased a G3X Touch but this happens in many areas.
Exchanging a G3X Touch for an AXIS (plus price difference) within 45 days of G3X purchase seems reasonable.
Offering a trade-in for older equipment (unless very small) seems commercially unwise.

All avionics will eventually become obsolete as will the AXIS units.
If I had already purchased G3X Touch I would fly with them. They are great units.
After all we still want Garmin to be around for AXIS-plus don't we ?
 
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