Just wanted to introduce myself and get some advice. Looking to purchase my first airplane (RV) and wanted to ask recommendations for the best way to go about this. I talked to a broker earlier this week who of course told me all the reasons to use a broker, but I wanted to see what the general opinion from RV owners is on this. Is it worth it to use a broker, online listings, or are forums like this a better option? Thanks in advance.
Van's Air Force
The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!
Intro and purchase ?
- Thread starter Jgray2140
- Start date
I didn't use a broker but I had a guy that knew RV's and he steered me through the buying process. As to searching...I just posted a "want-to-buy RV-7A or -9A" here on VAF. I got several responses, most of which were for planes that weren't listed anywhere. I found a -9A that checked all my boxes and more. I knew nothing about Experimental aviation and my buddy was invaluable in the evaluation and buying process. After I bought the plane, he flew it back with me and then did the transition training. The entire process from posting WTB here to flying it home took about 3 weeks. This was about 5 years ago as COVID was ramping up.
Last edited:
Yes welcome and know this is a great community with experts and those of us just trying to figure it out, across the globe. So the more you ask, and the more info you give, the better, and you will get both sides of many cases. So know that’s not a single all in one answer, but hopefully there is learning along the way!
Im a low time pilot with just over 200 hrs, instrument rated. Never owned a plane but would like to. Not on a professional pilot track, just wanting to fly for fun and weekend trips. Im pretty "handy" but never had any formal mechanical training. Work on cars a fair amount, never planes.
Thanks, ill try that.
Sounds like a perfect fit for a RV. What’s your mission? Your ideal trips and what will you need to carry most of the time. Are you an average sized guy?
Best of luck.
I will probably carry 1-2 passengers with gear for trips. Im mostly looking at IFR XC planes for this mission. Im fairly risk averse and recognize I am not very experienced so will probably start with closer weekend trips but Id love to get to the point where I can fly myself up and down the west coast.
Thats what I suspected. Any tips on how to locate the good ones? Is it mostly word of mouth?
If you have never bought a plane before I am going to suggest you will likely make some mistakes. The biggest mistake I made was buying a plane and then being anxious about many things that came up, controlled them by spending lots of money on things that were either needless or financially bad.
I'd suggest answering here or to your self the question about what your mission is.
I'd also suggest either going to OSH this year and/or a Vans factory tour. At the end of the tour you get to sit in each of the models and if you have asked in advance you get some form of a test flight.
You can also look up RV owners on FAA database and send them a letter begging for a look see...I did.
Even if you decide to build, I'd say buy a cheap RV and fly as you build. My build delays are peaceful because of this.
Here is what I did:
1. I decided on the qualities that were important to me. I came across a lot of iffy stories on engines so I wanted one that had been assembled new in a factory and was fairly low time. Some engines can come from rent a wrecks, joeBlow OH shop, or were non standard. I then wanted the plane to have decent gadgets/avionics so I would not try to update them with massive amounts of money and lost flying time. (BUY THE PLANE YOU WANT). I also wanted good bones but had no idea how to evaluate that.
2. I had to determine some things with regards to maintenance. Some shops won't work on these, this was a problem for me. I additionally had an experimental shop that pays advertising money they would not inspect my plane due to prebuy mentioning cylinder wall rust... Perhaps get this sorted out rather than be stranded.
3. I started following all available listings and built a spreadsheet. Tail number, year, engine source, avionics, options, etc...I might PM you a link to my actual sheet. I was different in that I did not want a center console to knock my large frame in. I tracked price, and tried to see what they sold for. RV10 market was tight and wiggle room was minimal on seller part.
4. When I found planes that might work I tried to get logs sent to me and/or talk to the owners. I even mentioned a few here on VAF and got some good direct feedback from those that knew the owner.
5. I wanted to get the best quality prebuy possible, perhaps even from the guy who wrote the books (you have those books dont you?). So I called him and learned what limited work he does. Good guy on the phone, was willing to direct things from a distance for a fee but would not travel far. So I hired the next best thing and would not hesitate to have him do the same again. It was likely more expensive than many other rebuys, but this was my one shot you know?
6. I inspected the plane myself and then met the prebuy guy on site. For my particular plane there were two for sale from same broker. One had bad paint, replaced fuel tanks, but newer Garmin. I took these mechanical flaws as potentially a bad bones issue and left that plane alone. I got to hear the private mutterings whispered under breath that allowed me to move forward despite a number of things that needed work. First inspection was 7% of purchase price to get the plane right.
7. I always try to buy a plane with reserves to handle the worst possible scenario of a new engine. I heard OH costs from a respected shop of 25-75K for my make/model, new being much more.
Broker? It depends upon if you trust them. I'd say you do not have to buy from a broker, they will likely keep some things close to the chest and not disclose things an owner might. Where a broker might come in handy is if you are a busy professional and can well describe what you want. Then a buyers broker can do the shopping and vetting on your behalf. I sold my C172 to someone like this and I thought the broker did a good job. I think his fee was 30K. I'd rather do the research myself and be better informed.
OTHER: Might I suggest you just get on the list for a LSRM/A class now? My class was 17 days, many are booked up way out in advance. The LSRM/A allows you to sign your own inspection. Class was a ball of fun with lecture and hands on labs. None of them are yet Vans RV specific, more so from Rotax, but great if you want a RV12.
PM sent.
I'd suggest answering here or to your self the question about what your mission is.
I'd also suggest either going to OSH this year and/or a Vans factory tour. At the end of the tour you get to sit in each of the models and if you have asked in advance you get some form of a test flight.
You can also look up RV owners on FAA database and send them a letter begging for a look see...I did.
Even if you decide to build, I'd say buy a cheap RV and fly as you build. My build delays are peaceful because of this.
Here is what I did:
1. I decided on the qualities that were important to me. I came across a lot of iffy stories on engines so I wanted one that had been assembled new in a factory and was fairly low time. Some engines can come from rent a wrecks, joeBlow OH shop, or were non standard. I then wanted the plane to have decent gadgets/avionics so I would not try to update them with massive amounts of money and lost flying time. (BUY THE PLANE YOU WANT). I also wanted good bones but had no idea how to evaluate that.
2. I had to determine some things with regards to maintenance. Some shops won't work on these, this was a problem for me. I additionally had an experimental shop that pays advertising money they would not inspect my plane due to prebuy mentioning cylinder wall rust... Perhaps get this sorted out rather than be stranded.
3. I started following all available listings and built a spreadsheet. Tail number, year, engine source, avionics, options, etc...I might PM you a link to my actual sheet. I was different in that I did not want a center console to knock my large frame in. I tracked price, and tried to see what they sold for. RV10 market was tight and wiggle room was minimal on seller part.
4. When I found planes that might work I tried to get logs sent to me and/or talk to the owners. I even mentioned a few here on VAF and got some good direct feedback from those that knew the owner.
5. I wanted to get the best quality prebuy possible, perhaps even from the guy who wrote the books (you have those books dont you?). So I called him and learned what limited work he does. Good guy on the phone, was willing to direct things from a distance for a fee but would not travel far. So I hired the next best thing and would not hesitate to have him do the same again. It was likely more expensive than many other rebuys, but this was my one shot you know?
6. I inspected the plane myself and then met the prebuy guy on site. For my particular plane there were two for sale from same broker. One had bad paint, replaced fuel tanks, but newer Garmin. I took these mechanical flaws as potentially a bad bones issue and left that plane alone. I got to hear the private mutterings whispered under breath that allowed me to move forward despite a number of things that needed work. First inspection was 7% of purchase price to get the plane right.
7. I always try to buy a plane with reserves to handle the worst possible scenario of a new engine. I heard OH costs from a respected shop of 25-75K for my make/model, new being much more.
Broker? It depends upon if you trust them. I'd say you do not have to buy from a broker, they will likely keep some things close to the chest and not disclose things an owner might. Where a broker might come in handy is if you are a busy professional and can well describe what you want. Then a buyers broker can do the shopping and vetting on your behalf. I sold my C172 to someone like this and I thought the broker did a good job. I think his fee was 30K. I'd rather do the research myself and be better informed.
OTHER: Might I suggest you just get on the list for a LSRM/A class now? My class was 17 days, many are booked up way out in advance. The LSRM/A allows you to sign your own inspection. Class was a ball of fun with lecture and hands on labs. None of them are yet Vans RV specific, more so from Rotax, but great if you want a RV12.
PM sent.
Last edited:
If you’re looking to carry 1-2 passengers, then you’ll be shopping for RV-10’s - al the other RV’s will just carry one passenger. Most RV-10’s are IFR, simply because the avionics are a smaller percentage of the total price of the aircraft, so its easier to justify the small increase in cost from VFR to IFR, and most builders give some consideration to eventual resale value.
First-time aircraft ownership is a challenging, steep learning curve. It is simpler with a certified aircraft because you can depend on certification standards and licensed mechanics to make sure that the aircraft is reasonably safe and sound. I honestly urge caution for someone without a lot of aviation background jumping in to buy an E-0Ab becasue quality of build and mainteannce can vary so wildly. The EAA offers a great free publication that they have published called “The Non-Builder Owner’s Guide to Experimntal Aircraft”. If you are not a member, defintiely join EAA for access to the countless resources they offer. There are other excellent books by Vic Syracuse on buying and maintaining experimental aircraft - look in to those. If you buy an experimental you are going to have much more responsibility on your shoulders for keeping it safe to fly as many A&P’s don’t understand that they won;t have manuals to follow - and many won;t work on thekm. And….there is a growing shortage of A&P’s of all types.
My suggestion is to go a little slow and join a local EA chapter. Fly with some folks. Look at airplanes, Learn who really knows airplanes and who is less experienced.Learn from other’s mistakes. Don’t let enthusiasm to own let you step into a project rather than a flying airplane. If its your dream, then definitely follow it - but do it with your eyes wide open!
The RV10 is a 4 place airplane. All the rest (except the RV3) are 2 seat planes, either side by side or tandem. On the side by sides you're limited to 100 lbs of baggage that has to fit behind the seats in a space thats about 24"x42". basically 2 roller bags and a couple of headset bags are all that going to fit in there.
Norman CYYJ
Well Known Member
When looking at planes define your realistic mission for the plane, hire a good person to do a pre buy inspection. Doing it yourself a fancy paint job and fancy panel and interior can cloud your vision. Sorta like picking out a life time partner but in that case I don't recommend a prepurchase inspection.
Just in case you haven’t seen these articles by Van’s Aircraft:
www.vansaircraft.com
www.vansaircraft.com
www.vansaircraft.com
www.vansaircraft.com
www.vansaircraft.com
Which RV is Right for Me? - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
Van’s “Total Performance” concept means that all RVs do many, many things quite well. And while they’re all fun to fly and perform quite well, each model has its own uniquely-appealing set of mission capabilities. This may pose a bit of a dilemma when a new builder is trying to decide, “Which RV...
www.vansaircraft.com
Buying a Flying RV - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
SO, YOU’RE CONSIDERING BUYING A FLYING RV…. With increasing frequency, prospective buyers of flying RVs are calling Van’s Aircraft, Inc. for advice about finished RV aircraft they would like to buy. This puts us in a difficult position. Our business is airframe kits, and the airframe is only...
www.vansaircraft.com
RV Design - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
First and foremost, RVs are fun to fly. Their controls are light, responsive, and beautifully harmonized. We’ll just say it: Chances are that you have never flown an airplane that offers anything approaching the exhilarating sensation and flying confidence of an RV. RV Aircraft are low-wing...
www.vansaircraft.com
RV Flight Training - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
Consider this: Before you hop in your new RV and slip the surly bonds, ask yourself, “Am I really ready?” When your new airplane is ready to fly, it’s time to sit in some quiet spot, put your ego on the shelf and be brutally honest with yourself. You may have spent years in the […] Read More
www.vansaircraft.com
Flying an RV - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
Many pilots who fly RVs find it difficult to put the feel of the airplanes into words. They often resort to vague hand-waving, impromptu grinning and finally just stating, “until you fly one, there is no way you can fully understand.” We can certainly present all of the raw numbers for your...
www.vansaircraft.com
Many good points from previous posters. I'm on my 10th EAB and 7th RV. I wish I knew when I purchased my first (6A) what I know now. It's much more about your safety than money. I'll pass along advice from a well known RV builder when I asked him , as a new pilot, which RV to buy. He said buy a good C-172, fly the heck out of it, and your skills and mission will be better defined.
That’s great thanks so much. I’ll take a lookJust in case you haven’t seen these articles by Van’s Aircraft:
Which RV is Right for Me? - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
Van’s “Total Performance” concept means that all RVs do many, many things quite well. And while they’re all fun to fly and perform quite well, each model has its own uniquely-appealing set of mission capabilities. This may pose a bit of a dilemma when a new builder is trying to decide, “Which RV...Buying a Flying RV - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
SO, YOU’RE CONSIDERING BUYING A FLYING RV…. With increasing frequency, prospective buyers of flying RVs are calling Van’s Aircraft, Inc. for advice about finished RV aircraft they would like to buy. This puts us in a difficult position. Our business is airframe kits, and the airframe is only...RV Design - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
First and foremost, RVs are fun to fly. Their controls are light, responsive, and beautifully harmonized. We’ll just say it: Chances are that you have never flown an airplane that offers anything approaching the exhilarating sensation and flying confidence of an RV. RV Aircraft are low-wing...RV Flight Training - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
Consider this: Before you hop in your new RV and slip the surly bonds, ask yourself, “Am I really ready?” When your new airplane is ready to fly, it’s time to sit in some quiet spot, put your ego on the shelf and be brutally honest with yourself. You may have spent years in the […] Read MoreFlying an RV - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
Many pilots who fly RVs find it difficult to put the feel of the airplanes into words. They often resort to vague hand-waving, impromptu grinning and finally just stating, “until you fly one, there is no way you can fully understand.” We can certainly present all of the raw numbers for your...
+1 on Paul's message.....
To add real world numbers for an RV-10 (the only Vans with more than 2 seats) here are my Fixed costs:
Hangar: $5K per year
Property taxes: $3K per year
Insurance: $2K per year
e.g, $10K/yr before you ever turn on the engine. I have over 3,000 hr, CFI certificate, etc. Plan on your first year insurance being at least twice as high. I'm also in expensive California; some states have little or no property taxes (oh, I forgot, in CA sales/use tax is 9% (one time)).
This should get you started on finances. Remember, as an EAB, you cannot recover any costs by having a lease-back.
Now, if you can live with just one passenger seat, used RV-6A's are available for a lot less money (and property taxes and insurance tend to scale with the value of the plane)
Note on Vans terminology: RV-10 is a nose wheel plane with no tail wheel option. For all others, RV-6, -7, -9, -14 are tail wheel planes; RV-6A, -7A, etc., are nose wheel planes.
To add real world numbers for an RV-10 (the only Vans with more than 2 seats) here are my Fixed costs:
Hangar: $5K per year
Property taxes: $3K per year
Insurance: $2K per year
e.g, $10K/yr before you ever turn on the engine. I have over 3,000 hr, CFI certificate, etc. Plan on your first year insurance being at least twice as high. I'm also in expensive California; some states have little or no property taxes (oh, I forgot, in CA sales/use tax is 9% (one time)).
This should get you started on finances. Remember, as an EAB, you cannot recover any costs by having a lease-back.
Now, if you can live with just one passenger seat, used RV-6A's are available for a lot less money (and property taxes and insurance tend to scale with the value of the plane)
Note on Vans terminology: RV-10 is a nose wheel plane with no tail wheel option. For all others, RV-6, -7, -9, -14 are tail wheel planes; RV-6A, -7A, etc., are nose wheel planes.
As usual....
Norman CYYJ
Well Known Member
Also if you are interested in a great 4 seater it is hard to beat the RV10 BUT how often are you realistically going to fly with 4 seats full, probably not very often. Most of the time you will be by yourself and flying around even with a two seater the second seat will be empty. If you need 4 seats for the occasional flight go rent one it will be cheaper.
