I got my email, and went to the website and looked at the offer. There is a provision to ask a question, and so I asked a question. That was several days ago. No response to the question.

On the RV-8 kits, they are apparently rolling the in-flight adjustable rudder pedals into the kit as standard rather than an option. I'm OK with that, since I ordered the in-flight adjustable pedals option initially.

EXCEPT.....

In the modified offer they describe them as "Cockpit-adjustable" pedals. Which corresponds directly with neither the in-flight adjustable, nor the ground-adjustable. Cockpit-adjustable could conceivably mean either one. I'm probably being pedantic here, but since the whole thing is a revision of a legal contract, I'd like to know for sure what I am signing on to.

So I would like that question answered.

I'm not real happy about having the electric aileron trim forced on me when I don't want it - that is a non-trivial expense that is apparently not returnable. Maybe I'll install it and mount the switch somewhere that it "feels" like a manual trim.
 
I'm Pretty Pissed

I had fully paid $65,881 for my RV-10 finish kit, QB wings, and QB fuselage. Today, their proposal to modify my order put the new price at $103,900. How about that 58% increase?!?!

I'm not inclined to pay that, but the good news is they claim to have all my items in stock. All I have to do is come up with an additional $38,018.

I am pretty pissed off at them. I bought the RV-10 Empennage kit in October 2021. When they delayed shipping it in April 2022 I contacted them and suggested they were having financial problems which they denied, of course. They finally shipped the kit in July of 2022. I warned another EAA member about their possible financial problems last year so he called them and of course they lied to him about their financial condition too.

Basically, the company has been lying to the GA community, the EAA community, it's customers and the public for at least 2 years. I don't like doing business with people who are dishonest.

As I was working on my workshop I wasn't too bothered. I spent a lot of money on tools and equipment and workshop and, meantime, delayed starting the build.

I was finally ready in July this year, 2023, only to receive an email saying there were laser cut part problems. More delays...

Fortunately for me, I "only" have 5 parts that are laser cut.

However, I am now considering selling my empennage kit, which is essentially new, and building something else like an RAI-6, $56K for the airframe compared to $85K now for the RV-10 and you cannot be sure they will ever ship, and a Zenith which, at Vans prices for the RV-10, I can do for about the same price. Add to the, Revolution guarantee your price for 2 years with a minimal deposit.

It's not just the almost 50% increase in airframe cost, it's the principle and the attitude. They misled a lot of people. They were not paying attention. That comes from arrogance. I don't care that Dick and his wife put millions of dollars into the company, they took it out to begin with.

I extremely disappointed. Not the kind of business I want to do business with at all.
 
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I received my invitation for re-ordering and it seems I’ve been priced out of building an RV14 A. If anyone is interested, I’ve got an unopened empennage kit with no laser cut parts and a fuselage kit awaiting laser cut parts replacement for sale at the original price from a year and a half ago.
 
Plenty of alternatives

I'm not priced out of building my RV-10, quite, if I budget accordingly.

However, the RAI-6 seems to me to be a better and cheaper option right now, especially as they may be more likely to survive.

Personally, I'm not sure Vans will survive this at all. It isn't just an issue of dollars and cents, it's good will, and they have none left with me at all.
 
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I had the same experience. Email for RV-10 fuselage kit but nothing for my Finishing Kit. I’m still on the fence about what I’m going to do. Fight or flight.
-Bruce

I had the same, wing and fuse were there, but finish was not. But this morning I got an email that it was updated. Apparently they had only sent out emails for about 500 orders as a test to make sure the web site worked. Then they sent out the others.
 
Got mine this morning (second wave?). Tough pill to swallow, but for me it was only one kit left, so I did it. Sorry to all those who, like me, saw RVs as a neat way to get a high performance airplane and learn some new skills but can no longer afford to do it.
 
Question

I'm not priced out of building my RV-10, quite, if I budget accordingly.

However, there are much cheaper options now with very similar or better performance.

Personally, I'm not sure Vans will survive this at all. It isn't just an issue of dollars and cents, it's good will, and they have none left with me at all.

Can you point me to an EAB that has "much cheaper options now with very similar or better performance."?

The Sling isn't in the same class...

Thanks.
 
I received my invitation this morning and was very impressed with the portal. Whoever designed and developed it did a great job considering how short the timeline was.

I was a little concerned about my fuselage order because when I ordered it last spring, I added a note to the order (per Greg's suggestion) that I wanted the newly announced Beringer brake option. When I reviewed my order in the portal, it included the Beringer brake option. Until today, I had no idea if my fuselage kit actually included the Beringer option.

BTW, I fully paid for my fuselage kit in August and it was due to be crated in October. I fear I'm now at the back of the line since hundreds of other people got their invitations to revise their order before I did :-(
 
Can you point me to an EAB that has "much cheaper options now with very similar or better performance."?

The Sling isn't in the same class...

Thanks.

I don't think I mentioned the Sling ? which is in the same class as the Zenith 650(b) and no, I would not consider either of those. In 2 seater metal, RV is probably the best option, even at the new prices, which is not much consolation, in my view.

If Vans doesn't survive Chapter 11, which is certainly possible, anything else will be cheaper. However...

The RAI-6 (4 seater) is in the same class as the RV-10, a shorter build, cruises at 180 knots. Of course, if you go the full "build centre" help option it's more expensive, but if you just buy the kit, it's cheaper.

The RAI-1 is cheaper still, also cruises as 180 knots.

Plus, Revolution Aviation don't require a 35% deposit and guarantee your price for 2 years.

Hope this helps.
 
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Brakes and wheels, deposits, etc

I received by email this morning as well re my finish kit order. I note that "the brakes have been moved to the fuselage kit", which I received about a year ago without the wheels and brakes. It looks like I will need to order the brakes and wheels separately which does represent an additional cost.

Also, when I went through the offer, it indicated that no additional down payment was necessary (I previously made the 25% of the old price). But the document that they ask you to sign states that a 35% deposit at the new price is due in 14 days.

A bit confused..
 
For those still waiting for access to the contract portal, here is what it states...

On December 4, 2023, Van’s Aircraft filed for protection under Chapter 11 of the federal bankruptcy code, a key step in the reorganization of the company. This action allows Van’s to remain open while making important changes to ensure our future stability and success.

At the time of filing for Chapter 11 protection, Van’s had hundreds of kit orders that had not been delivered. These kit orders contain terms, conditions, and pricing that Van’s cannot perform, and they must be modified or canceled. You have received this notice because you have at least one order and deposit with us for the purchase of a kit.

Note: Some of you have already taken delivery of a kit containing laser-cut parts, Van’s will be contacting you shortly with details on our plan for getting you replacement parts. We will begin shipping replacement parts at the end of this month, and we project that all customers needing replacement parts will receive them prior to the end of 2024.

In addition, many of you may also have undelivered backorders and/or deposits on an engine, powerplant kit, propeller, avionics, or other items. We do not yet have a clear plan in place for these products. Therefore, we are not yet presenting options for these products. We will communicate with you about our plans for these products as soon as the plans are established.

On this site:

You may view your open kit order(s) and the related Van’s Aircraft modified order offer(s)
You can read frequently asked questions and answers
You can ask us a question if you have one that is not sufficiently answered here
We would like to offer you the opportunity to apply the full dollar amount of your previously remitted deposit(s) and payment(s) to a modified kit order(s). Customers who choose not to formally agree on or before January 30, 2024 to the changes proposed will have their order terminated.

Moving forward, you have two options you may act on regarding your kit order(s) and previous kit deposit(s):

Option One

Under the first option, for a limited period of time, Van’s will apply 100% of your previous deposit(s) toward the purchase of the same kit(s), but under new terms and conditions – specifically a new deposit schedule and an increased price. In some cases, your new kit order will have the same kit selected but certain additions or options may be slightly different due to our new kit packaging/contents standards. Please review the PDF files on the next page, which show the contents of your original order and the modified order. Proceeding with this option to “modify your order” saves 100% of your previous deposit(s) and provides you with a known, clear path to receiving the kit(s) you need to complete your Van’s kit and to start enjoying flying it for years to come. Please note that this is a limited-time offer and will only remain open until January 30, 2024.

For those considering this option, please note:

Your Deposit is Protected: If you choose to modify your order, your payments and deposits will be protected. Deposits received will be held in trust in our newly established customer deposit account, which is not used for Van’s general operating expenses. Your kit deposit will remain in the customer deposit account until we start to manufacture, source, and or assemble the components of your kit. At that time, we will send you a “Notice of Production Commencement” and thereafter, we will move your deposit from the customer deposit account into Van’s operating account. Approximately 60 days before we crate your kit, we will contact you to let you know that you are within our “Kit Crating Window” and you will be given 14 days to submit the remaining balance due for your order. More details on the timing of deposits and payments are set forth in our purchase agreement, which you will need to sign as part of modifying your order.
Kits Ready To Ship. As of December, Van’s has over 1600 pending kit orders. We currently have the inventory to crate and ship over 360 of these kits, with the following quantities of each type initially available:
Kit Name Initial Stock Qty
RV-10 Tail Kits 50
RV-10 Fuselage Kits 30
RV-10 Wing Kits 27
RV-10 Finish Kits 21
RV-10 Quick Build Wing Kits 10
RV-10 Quick Build Fuselage Kits 12
RV-14/14A Tail Kits 16
RV-14 Wing Kits 40
RV-14/14A Finish Kits 21
RV-14 Quick Build Fuselage Kits 11
RV-12 Tail Kits 31
RV-12 Fuselage Kits 21
RV-12 Wing Kits 21
RV-7 Empennage Kits 10
RV-7 Wing Kits 8
RV-7 Fuselage Kits 5
RV-7 Quick Build Wing Kits 1
RV-8 Empennage Kits 23
RV-8 Wing Kits 13
RV-9/9A Empennage Kits 4
RV-9 Fuselage Kits 4
Note: Kit availability will likely change rapidly as orders are processed and our inventory changes. We have a number of parts being manufactured and sourced daily so we can continue to deliver as many modified kit orders as possible.

Prompt Shipping: With this initial ready-to-crate inventory, our goal is to ship kits within two weeks of receipt of final payment to purchasers of the kits we currently have in stock.
Weekly Shipping Rate: Initially, we plan to ship 25 modified kit orders per week. If we get a substantial backlog of modified kit orders, we will increase our shipping rate of modified kits as much as two-fold.
Priority of Shipments: Kit orders will be processed and shipped on a first-come, first-served basis for those who choose to modify their order under the new terms and conditions.
Laser Cut Parts Options and Parts Availability: Over the past months, substantial effort and resources have been devoted to manufacturing and preparing to ship replacement parts for customers who received laser-cut components. Starting this week, all customers who previously received a kit containing laser-cut components will receive an email outlining our laser-cut parts replacement program. Thereafter, we will begin the process of reaching out to each impacted customer with a follow-up email containing the specific list of potential laser-cut parts shipped in their particular kit(s). It will take months to work through all of these customers and get them all the parts they need. We estimate that approximately 64% of customers with an open kit order also have a laser-cut affected empennage/tail kit at home and are awaiting replacement parts. As a result, we’ve focused initially on producing a high volume of replacement parts for all empennage/tail kit models, which we will quickly be able to start shipping. Van’s understands you may be hesitant to proceed with the purchase of your next kit when you’ve not yet received replacements for laser-cut parts in a kit you already possess. Therefore, for customers who accept their modified kit orders via this website for an in-stock kit shipment, who also have an affected empennage/tail kit at home, Van’s will include the replacement empennage parts in their next kit, stock permitting. Initially, we expect to have replacement parts available for approximately 200 RV-7/8/10/14 empennage/tail kits. We also have some RV-9 and RV-12 replacement parts in stock. We will add these parts to kits that are available to ship on a first-come, first-served basis.
Option Two

The second option for customers with deposits on Van’s Aircraft kits, who choose not to re-order as outlined above, will be to file a claim in bankruptcy for the amount of your previous deposit(s). According to section 507(a)(7) of the bankruptcy code, the first $3,350 of the total of all your deposits could be filed under the status of a “priority claim,” and the balance of your deposits filed under the status of a “general unsecured claim.” The timing and amount of any payout that you might receive on both your priority and general unsecured claims will be determined and set forth in a plan approved by the court during the bankruptcy.

We know that either of these options will create significant hardship for you. However, without taking these steps and making these changes, there simply is not a feasible path forward for Van’s Aircraft. Taking these steps allows us to remain in business to provide parts, kits, and support for the thousands of builders and owners of Van’s products, and to be around to support each of you for years to come.

Review Your Orders

Clicking the button below will display a page allowing you to review your current kit orders and exercise the option to modify and apply 100% of your previous deposit(s) toward the purchase of the same kit(s), under the new terms and conditions. Please review the PDF order documents, which display the contents of your original kit order(s) and the contents of your new kit order(s). Note that the contents of your order may have changed due to kit contents/packaging changes. Your previous kit order(s) are listed, and we have provided our new deposit schedule, pricing, etc. You can also access and review the applicable documentation required to modify your order(s). Once you indicate that you are ready to move forward with reordering your kit(s), we will email you the required documents for signature via DocuSign. Note: If any additional deposits are required due to a deposit shortage (if you had submitted a deposit of less than 25% on your original order), we will also contact you with instructions to submit the additional required deposit funds.
 
I received by email this morning as well re my finish kit order. I note that "the brakes have been moved to the fuselage kit", which I received about a year ago without the wheels and brakes. It looks like I will need to order the brakes and wheels separately which does represent an additional cost.

Also, when I went through the offer, it indicated that no additional down payment was necessary (I previously made the 25% of the old price). But the document that they ask you to sign states that a 35% deposit at the new price is due in 14 days.

A bit confused..

If you already paid in 25%, you are good. If it is a NEW order, it will be 35%.
 
Has anyone received an email requesting final payment? I know they had some kits that were ready to ship. I wonder if those have started going out.
 
Finally received my email late last night. I only had my RV14A SB fuselage kit on order. I obviously reordered and will wait for them to contact me about the wheels and brakes option (explained in a separate email). Disappointed to see that the RV14A SB fuselage kit looks to be the only kit they don't have the inventory for and ready to ship. :(

Interesting to see that the email about the wheels and brakes I received 30 mins prior to my invite to reorder showed the Grove package at $3450.00. Then when I logged onto the portal and reordered they are now $3850!! :rolleyes:
 
Wheels & Breaks

Pulling the wheels and breaks from the finish kit made the price increase look much smaller than it is.

It would be nice to know exactly what's in the wheels and breaks kit. I'd like to shop around for the parts to build my own kit and compare prices. It use to be that Vans used its buying power to bundle these things and pass some of the savings onto the customer. Are those days over?
 
Past Deposits shown not correct

I received my invitation last night.
The deposits shown are not correct.
They show the same $2935 for both my -14 QB Fuse and wing orders.
Well under the 25% deposit paid. And would not be the same amount.

Anyone else get this?
Best way to get it corrected?
 
And . . . .

Now I cant change order from QB to SB. Argh!
That really complicates things.
Guess I should have changed the order in advance of Ch 11.
Did I miss something before the re-order email invitations went out?
 
a
cpilot,

What are you looking at in the store? I found U 55-204 Grove Wheels And Brakes RV-14/14A for $2,460.00

Mike
I am just quoting the prices that they provided me from both the "Wheels and Brake info" email and the new reorder invoice that was produced when I reordered. I'm guessing it may also include brake cylinders etc. I think the nose wheel is also included because it is more expensive than than the price for the RV14.
 
I called Vans earlier in the week inquiring about my canopy bubble and was told they are shipping small parts (received many orders) but not crating yet and that I could expect my canopy to be crated before the new year.

This morning they called and asked if I was agreeable to the new price and that it would be crated this week!

I was first on her list so hopefully others will get calls as well.

Merry Christmas all.

Arnie
 
Pulling the wheels and breaks from the finish kit made the price increase look much smaller than it is.

It would be nice to know exactly what's in the wheels and breaks kit. I'd like to shop around for the parts to build my own kit and compare prices. It use to be that Vans used its buying power to bundle these things and pass some of the savings onto the customer. Are those days over?

It’s on the store. It’s some tube, hubs, brakes, tyre, tube and axles.
 

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Interesting to see that the email about the wheels and brakes I received 30 mins prior to my invite to reorder showed the Grove package at $3450.00. Then when I logged onto the portal and reordered they are now $3850!! :rolleyes:

Interesting - my portal had no mention of wheels and brakes at all. Just the modified finish kit price increase of circa 2k. I assumed you just ordered the brakes from the store when you need them. The store had them for $3000/$3450
 
If you already paid in 25%, you are good. If it is a NEW order, it will be 35%.

Thanks. I get too many emails. Van's sent out an email a few hours prior to the revised offer invite. It basically stated that if you were at 25% previously, they would honor that and not ask for 35% on the original orders.
 
I called Vans earlier in the week inquiring about my canopy bubble and was told they are shipping small parts (received many orders) but not crating yet and that I could expect my canopy to be crated before the new year.

This morning they called and asked if I was agreeable to the new price and that it would be crated this week!

I was first on her list so hopefully others will get calls as well.

Merry Christmas all.

Arnie

That's stranger. I placed an order yesterday with parts and I was told since my order would require crating that there hasn't been anyone in crating for awhile and they would not resume crating until after January so not to expect anything until mid to end of January. She said they were only shipping small items util then. My order only requires cardboard boxing but evidently that is crating. This order is an order I had placed on the web store on November 1 and asked for all parts in stock to ship then and my order stayed "Pending" util I finially deleted it after calling twice about it. It became obvious that until I placed a new order paying the 75 % increase in parts pricing that I would continue to be ignored. After placing the new order it was almost double what it would have been November 1. Ordered parts for 2 sets of ailerons and flaps for RV8. Almost half the parts are on backorder and no idea when they will be available. I have been doing business with Vans for about 9 years and things have slowly been getting more difficult each year and after Covid things just seemed to crash. I hope they can keep things going but a lot of good customers are not feeling that warm fuzzy feeling anymore in trusting what is going to be the next move. I'm sweating over what is going to happen on my Thunderbolt engine order. Lycoming tells me they have no intention on raising the price but have to wait to see what Vans is going to do. I will be disappointed with a price increase knowing Vans only has paperwork involved in the engine purchase and that started out as on of the perks to purchasing a complete aircraft from Vans and now being used to raise money for our spent deposits. I really hope this will not be the case. Good luck to all involved.
 
That's stranger. I placed an order yesterday with parts and I was told since my order would require crating that there hasn't been anyone in crating for awhile and they would not resume crating until after January so not to expect anything until mid to end of January. She said they were only shipping small items util then. My order only requires cardboard boxing but evidently that is crating. This order is an order I had placed on the web store on November 1 and asked for all parts in stock to ship then and my order stayed "Pending" util I finially deleted it after calling twice about it. It became obvious that until I placed a new order paying the 75 % increase in parts pricing that I would continue to be ignored. After placing the new order it was almost double what it would have been November 1. Ordered parts for 2 sets of ailerons and flaps for RV8. Almost half the parts are on backorder and no idea when they will be available. I have been doing business with Vans for about 9 years and things have slowly been getting more difficult each year and after Covid things just seemed to crash. I hope they can keep things going but a lot of good customers are not feeling that warm fuzzy feeling anymore in trusting what is going to be the next move. I'm sweating over what is going to happen on my Thunderbolt engine order. Lycoming tells me they have no intention on raising the price but have to wait to see what Vans is going to do. I will be disappointed with a price increase knowing Vans only has paperwork involved in the engine purchase and that started out as on of the perks to purchasing a complete aircraft from Vans and now being used to raise money for our spent deposits. I really hope this will not be the case. Good luck to all involved.

One interesting observation on the parts prices is that some of the vendors have filed claims so we know now what Van's pays its vendors for those parts.

E.g. looking at the one from Warren Kemper (see: https://docs.bmcgroup.com/VansAircraft/claims/537_00000041.PDF ) it seems Van's mark up over manufacturing costs is about 400-500%.

If they can't make money at that markup I am not sure when they can... .

Oliver
 
One interesting observation on the parts prices is that some of the vendors have filed claims so we know now what Van's pays its vendors for those parts.

E.g. looking at the one from Warren Kemper (see: https://docs.bmcgroup.com/VansAircraft/claims/537_00000041.PDF ) it seems Van's mark up over manufacturing costs is about 400-500%.

If they can't make money at that markup I am not sure when they can... .

Oliver

Historically, parts were always priced fairly. There was a correlation between the input cost plus Van's effort plus profit margin. The current pricing now feels exorbitant. e.g. canopy slider block C-661 (cost to Van's $3.90) is priced at $19.95 in the web store.

There must be some serious inefficiencies and overheads that have built up over the past couple of years and I hope the new management team will be able to get it back under control.
 
Historically, parts were always priced fairly. There was a correlation between the input cost plus Van's effort plus profit margin. The current pricing now feels exorbitant. e.g. canopy slider block C-661 (cost to Van's $3.90) is priced at $19.95 in the web store.

There must be some serious inefficiencies and overheads that have built up over the past couple of years and I hope the new management team will be able to get it back under control.

That same block was $11.40 before bankruptcy. I got one right before everything happened.
 
I called Vans earlier in the week inquiring about my canopy bubble and was told they are shipping small parts (received many orders) but not crating yet and that I could expect my canopy to be crated before the new year.

This morning they called and asked if I was agreeable to the new price and that it would be crated this week!

I was first on her list so hopefully others will get calls as well.

Merry Christmas all.

Arnie

Was that a store order or was it a backorder item? I emailed asking about my backorder items and it looks like they've got an outsource thing going on because my response was "I can't open this or have any idea what it is."
 
Not a backorder.

It had been in stock since Oct 30th when I ordered it. It sat in pending on my order form while they did inventory during the month of Nov.

Now it looks like its going to ship sooner than expected at the new price.

Arnie
 
When I was much younger I worked for Radio Shack Corporation, Tandy Corp in the UK for 5 years and a little over a year more over here.

Everyone used to complain that the margins, at an average 55% at the store level, were obscene.

Having run several businesses, two doing some manufacturing and assembly, it is my opinion that if you need to make 4 and 5 * cost on an item that you don't stock, your company is extremely poorly managed.

At this point, I think I am just going to wait until the 5 laser cut parts I need to have replaced are in my hands and then sell my RV-10 empennage. At the price I paid for it, considering I have not done any assembly, it will be a great deal for someone who wants to build a 10.

I think I will switch to and RAI-1, which is a two seater, as I really don't have any need for a 4 any longer.
 
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