mstrauss

mstrauss

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I got an email form Vans today, inviting me to the new and improved LCP porta. The portal has been updated with new backend data to only provide a builder part selections pertinent to their crating date. I have LCPs in an RV14A empennage, wings, and fuselage, so there was a lot to go through. None of my previous selection (from first incantation of the portal) were carried over. I found an error in the portal where it will not allow you to save your selections if you try adding some blue fuselage parts. I reached out to Vans, and they are investigating. Update, That issue has been fixed

My empennage is almost completely built, but nothing started with the wings or fuselage. Most of the wing and fuselage were LCPs. I have been on the fence for some time now about how to proceed. So, here is the question; should I replace all the blue, and keep the green, or just replace the red and yellow parts? I am fine with the green parts.

Replacing the blue parts for the wings and fuselage will be:
  • Wing: $1,800
  • Fuselage: $1,300
I was also thinking of a third option. Replace only the blue parts that can not be reasonably inspected. Spending another $3,100 dollars is painful, given all the increases in the rest (finish kit and engine, over $13,000 for both). There are two aspects I'm considering.
  • Safety: I believe the engineering analysis that Vans did was reasonably sound. However, the conclusions have yet to be proven out is practice, that is, a real plane with X hours. Only time will tell. I don't think the plane will fall from the sky, but will there be service bulletins at some point? At least if I am able to inspect all potentially effected areas, I can always know, and reasonably prove all is well.
  • Resale: It has been talked about already, and people fall on both sides of the spectrum. I am not sure I'm so quick to dismiss this like the Vic's of the world. People are strange that way. Sometimes things just becomes a known point of concern. It could impact a future sale price. I am not building my plane for its resale, but at some point I will sell it, or my heirs will, and this could be a factor.
So, do I take the blue or green pill, or cut the blue pill in half ;)?
 
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For me I only only went with GREEN parts. I will rebuild my Vertical Stabilizer, Rudder, Elevators, Flaps, and Aileron. After that the only BLUE parts I had were the wing ribs. For $1,200 I will just fell better replacing them. Plus about another $200 for rivets and such.
 
From my experience, you cut the blue pills in half until a half doesn't work anymore. Then you've got real problems.

Speaking of which, I bet the CEO of Boeing would love to be facing a QA problem as simple as LCP's right about now. So I imagine would his fellow shareholders.
 
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I did the replace all on my emp, just today got shipping bill of lading on my finish kit and lcp replacements for my emp, was like 2.3k to start over on the emp. I do mean start over, I was fully built, so ordered new parts for everything but fiberglass, steel parts, wiring harnesses, bolt hardware etc.

So I guess I took all the pills, blue, green, red, orange, and an unlabeled one! I figure it’s a small price to eliminate doubt and my qb fuse and qb wings are going to be non lcp, so keeping the emp to have lcp, wasn’t making since, thus made since to me to spend the extra money. I’ve got about 40k in price increases, so this decision was a rounding error.
 
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lipper03 said:
I did the replace all on my emp, just today got shipping bill of lading on my finish kit and lcp replacements for my emp, was like 2.3k to start over on the emp. I do mean start over, I was fully built, so ordered new parts for everything but fiberglass, steel parts, wiring harnesses, bolt hardware etc.

So I guess I took all the pills, blue, green, red, orange, and an unlabeled one! I figure it’s a small price to eliminate doubt and my qb fuse and qb wings are going to be non lcp, so keeping the emp to have lcp, wasn’t making since, thus made since to me to spend the extra money. I’ve got about 40k in price increases, so this decision was a rounding error.
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How did you order the extra parts (not red, yellow, blue or green)? The portal does not let you order parts other than red, yellow, blue, green or limited impacted parts. I called Van's and was told to send an email. So far my email is unanswered.
 
I clicked on the portal and decided I have way more control with the webstore. There should be an option to just deal with it on our own.
 
On my wings I went through and inspected all my blue parts. I ended up replacing the blue LE ribs and nothing else other than red/yellow. Also the holes were not why I replaced them, the flanges were not shaped as well as the other parts and I felt I would have a poor fit.

Also I am am installing the ER tanks and had previously ordered punched parts for them for something to work on until the testing was done. I think if I were to do it again I would still reorder the tank parts to minimize chance of leaks/fit just because it would be extra difficult to fix later. I feel pretty comfortable with the engineering testing for strength on everything else.
 
Cholley6 said:
On my wings I went through and inspected all my blue parts. I ended up replacing the blue LE ribs and nothing else other than red/yellow. Also the holes were not why I replaced them, the flanges were not shaped as well as the other parts and I felt I would have a poor fit.

Also I am am installing the ER tanks and had previously ordered punched parts for them for something to work on until the testing was done. I think if I were to do it again I would still reorder the tank parts to minimize chance of leaks/fit just because it would be extra difficult to fix later. I feel pretty comfortable with the engineering testing for strength on everything else.
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I am feeling the same way about the tanks. Unfortunately, they are the pricier parts.
 
Fltonc said:
How did you order the extra parts (not red, yellow, blue or green)? The portal does not let you order parts other than red, yellow, blue, green or limited impacted parts. I called Van's and was told to send an email. So far my email is unanswered.
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I got an emailed excel file on the 23rd, so sounds like I was just before they rolled out the new site. I just added to the list the part number and quantity. I would agree with sending an email with what you want, because that’s basically what I did.
 
I selected new parts for everything except the two parts that were green for the EMP. ~$380, which compared to the delay and my time, seems plenty cheap. The 2024-T3 scrap will get used in the shop anyway.
 
Mike I got the email with the portal as well this afternoon for my 8 wing kit. As we discussed I'm inclined to replace all LCPs since none have been installed yet. A little north of $1600 to replace everything, could be worse. I'm confident I'll easily make that back on any resale of the kit or airplane down the road. I just wonder how long till they can replace all the blue parts on my list.
 
Cholley6 said:
On my wings I went through and inspected all my blue parts. I ended up replacing the blue LE ribs and nothing else other than red/yellow. Also the holes were not why I replaced them, the flanges were not shaped as well as the other parts and I felt I would have a poor fit.

Also I am am installing the ER tanks and had previously ordered punched parts for them for something to work on until the testing was done. I think if I were to do it again I would still reorder the tank parts to minimize chance of leaks/fit just because it would be extra difficult to fix later. I feel pretty comfortable with the engineering testing for strength on everything else.
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I chose to replace all of my (blue) fuel tank ribs also for the reason of poorly shaped flanges. Had they been punched parts I would have contacted Van's for replacements long ago. The flanges were in terrible condition (relative to typical ribs) almost as if they had been mildly fluted in the wrong direction and directly over the holes. I ordered the replacement parts today through the portal, not sure when they'll ship.
 
I got an email with three spreadsheets (one for each kit: emp, fuse, wing). They are asking me to "let them know which parts I want to replace". I didn't get any links or pointers to a new portal. I sent them back the spreadsheets with the requested information and added the things (rivets and what not) I need to reassemble the parts of the emp kit I had assembled.
 
I’m replacing all their rubbish blue and green LCP parts at my expense. How am I ever going to talk up this company to future builders though.
 
Well I guess the consensus is in. As I thought the majority of builders are replacing all the blue parts. I get it, when building something that is $100,000 to $250,000, why wouldn't you play it safe and spend $1,000 - $3,000 more to eliminate a risk, however slight, to the plane or it's resale. I hate it. It pisses me off to no end, but I to am in the same camp. I will be forking over more money ($3,100) to replace the blue parts. It's interesting, the Ch11 fiasco has made the LCP issues seem smaller, and the $3k less material then before. It is not, something will take a hit in the budget.
 
I am replacing all LCPs in my empennage and fuselage. They are arriving tomorrow with my wing and finishing kits. I think it cost me around $2k. A small price to pay (considering the full build price) to avoid potential future issues.
 
Only my fuse is affected. Approximately $1300 to do blue and green. I’d only save $400 on green. Rather not have to explain that I’d left any in there on a 6 figure airplane over $400. Do them all blue and green.

Use the parts sheet to mark the good ones and the LCPs. I’m adding that sheet to the build log with an entry showing that all LCP were replaced and a receipt to go with it.
 
I decided long ago to purchase the blue parts myself since I considered it highly unlikely Vans would give us much, if any, discount. Then with the Ch 11 filing and new pricing, that was borne out. I ordered all the blue parts via the webstore before their prices increased, and now just needed the red/yellow. I have an excel file showing all those parts and the status of them for my kit, on Monday of this week I sent that to Vans unsolicited (had not received a new portal invite). That same evening I got an email back from Vans with a portal link asking me to put it in there, I did that immediately and got an email this morning that my parts are in shipping and will be here in a few days. No mention of any cost for shipping.
 
Looks like the portal issue has been corrected. I was able to complete all my selections, and save the results. I just got a Bill of Lading email for my finish kit, but no word on LCP. I hope I get a call soon.
 
I had 40 "acceptable for use" (blue and green) parts in my barely started fuselage kit. I decided to replace all the affected floor ribs and a few other parts whose holes were horendous. That left me biting the bullet on 10 of the 40 parts, less than $200 before shipping. Cost wasn't a concern as much as waiting a year for replacement parts. So my fuse will have 32 LCPs in it (30 "acceptable" + 2 "red" already deeply embedded parts awaiting "alternate solutions").

My wings, which I have completed 80%, have LCPs for nearly all the ribs. I have looked them over very closely and, while they do have the tell-tale "manufacture cracks", those cracks have not appeared to propogate on riveting, so I'm leaving them. I'd certainly do more damage than the cracks trying to drill them all out.

I have accepted I will have an inferior airplane from a resale perspective. That's a problem for 25 years down the line, by which point recreational aviation will be outlawed for reasons of climate change and wealth inequality, so it won't matter.
 
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gotyoke said:
I had 40 "acceptable for use" (blue and green) parts in my barely started fuselage kit. I decided to replace all the affected floor ribs and a few other parts whose holes were horendous. That left me biting the bullet on 10 of the 40 parts, less than $200 before shipping. Cost wasn't a concern as much as waiting a year for replacement parts. So my fuse will have 32 LCPs in them (30 "acceptable" plus 2 already deeply embedded parts awaiting "alternate solutions").

My wings, which I have completed 80%, have LCPs for nearly all the ribs. I have looked them over very closely and, while they do have the tell-tale "manufacture cracks", those cracks have not appeared to propogate on riveting, so I'm leaving them. I'd certainly do more damage than the cracks trying to drill them all out.

I have accepted I will have an inferior airplane from a resale perspective. That's a problem for 25 years down the line, by which point recreational aviation will be outlawed for reasons of climate change and wealth inequality, so it won't matter.
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More damage done than what is being fixed is a valid point. There will be examples of aircraft with no LCP but lots of induced damage from replacement. Depending on the approach and skill level of replacement, no LCP could be a worse built aircraft.

Lol “climate change and wealth inequality” 🙄 I’m afraid you may be close to the truth
 
gotyoke said:
I had 40 "acceptable for use" (blue and green) parts in my barely started fuselage kit. I decided to replace all the affected floor ribs and a few other parts whose holes were horendous. That left me biting the bullet on 10 of the 40 parts, less than $200 before shipping. Cost wasn't a concern as much as waiting a year for replacement parts. So my fuse will have 32 LCPs in it (30 "acceptable" + 2 "red" already deeply embedded parts awaiting "alternate solutions").

My wings, which I have completed 80%, have LCPs for nearly all the ribs. I have looked them over very closely and, while they do have the tell-tale "manufacture cracks", those cracks have not appeared to propogate on riveting, so I'm leaving them. I'd certainly do more damage than the cracks trying to drill them all out.

I have accepted I will have an inferior airplane from a resale perspective. That's a problem for 25 years down the line, by which point recreational aviation will be outlawed for reasons of climate change and wealth inequality, so it won't matter.
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Do you KNOW the parts are LCP? I replaced some tailcone LCP parts because inspection clearly showed they were LCP; there was OBVIOUS cracking at the edge of the dimples. I'm not seeing that in my QB wings. According to the list, my wings may have many LCPs, but careful inspection has me convinced that only 2 parts are definitely laser cut.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
jimbom said:
Do you KNOW the parts are LCP? I replaced some tailcone LCP parts because inspection clearly showed they were LCP; there was OBVIOUS cracking at the edge of the dimples. I'm not seeing that in my QB wings. According to the list, my wings may have many LCPs, but careful inspection has me convinced that only 2 parts are definitely laser cut.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Yes, absolutely, with 100% certainty. I did a slow build for both wings and fuse, with some inventory pictures and some very fortuitous video confirming which were laser cut and which were not. Plus, my bottom skins are not on. I can definitely see the LCP cracking on all the W-1011 ribs, but not the W-1012 or W-1010 ribs. No doubt my luck is unusually good in this regard.
 
airguy said:
Probably. Most likely.

But with my $100 butt riding up front, I want it right.
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Playing devils advocate, the test data showed that by replacing LCP with punched you are kind of rolling the dice and have a 20 % ish (guesstemating from the slides) chance that the replacement part has a lower/shorter fatigue life than the LCP you took out.

Who knows what will turn out “right” in the long run. May be more than one thing.
 
deMan said:
Playing devils advocate, the test data showed that by replacing LCP with punched you are kind of rolling the dice and have a 20 % ish (guesstemating from the slides) chance that the replacement part has a lower/shorter fatigue life than the LCP you took out.

Who knows what will turn out “right” in the long run. May be more than one thing.
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And that may very well be how it turns out - which means that resale value gets the deciding vote. Since I had done zero construction yet, it was an easy decision to add about 1% to the total build cost of the airplane in order to preserve "LCP free" status for eventual resale.
 
cgeyman said:
replacing none. cosmetic. even the reds are staying. much ado about nothing.
Cal
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I gotta ask, what happens if/when there’s a Service Bulletin from Vans that’s difficult or maybe borderline impossible to perform due to the red parts location?
Everyone has their own plan, but you’ll be hard pressed to explain to a potential buyer why a free of charge red part was not incorporated into the build.
 
N82VM said:
I gotta ask, what happens if/when there’s a Service Bulletin from Vans that’s difficult or maybe borderline impossible to perform due to the red parts location?
Everyone has their own plan, but you’ll be hard pressed to explain to a potential buyer why a free of charge red part was not incorporated into the build.
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Unfortunately, there are a lot of buyers willing to overlook major flaws in the airplane they buy - either willfully (accept them or don't care) or unknowingly (incompetent or non-existent pre-buy inspection).
 
airguy said:
Unfortunately, there are a lot of buyers willing to overlook major flaws in the airplane they buy - either willfully (accept them or don't care) or unknowingly (incompetent or non-existent pre-buy inspection).
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I used to build homes for a living and now adays nobody would buy a house without getting a prepurchase inspection before the purchase. But, I know many a person who bought an airplane without even really looking at it.
I fall into that category also, But, I have been a mechanic for most of my adult life and have a pretty good idea what I'm looking at.
And I have had many a certified mechanic replace good parts because they said they needed to be replaced because of *()&%_
And very poor mechanics fix my heavy equipment and leave serious stuff loose. Heck I better get off this soapbox or I'll never stop writing
I agree with Airguy
My luck varies Fixit
 
bmellis11 said:
I am replacing all LCPs in my empennage and fuselage. They are arriving tomorrow with my wing and finishing kits. I think it cost me around $2k. A small price to pay (considering the full build price) to avoid potential future issues.
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Did you order these through the LCP parts portal? The September 2023 link to the initial form just goes to a generic message, but the link to the new portal from Feb 2024 works and shows my part selections. The way I read it, we are to wait to be contacted and then confirm the final parts request via the portal. I have a relatively small blue LCP list for my unassembled 8/8A wing kit just over $1000 USD - still waiting to hear back; just curious if they are starting to fulfill some of these yet, perhaps on select models?
 
Tall_Order said:
Did you order these through the LCP parts portal? The September 2023 link to the initial form just goes to a generic message, but the link to the new portal from Feb 2024 works and shows my part selections. The way I read it, we are to wait to be contacted and then confirm the final parts request via the portal. I have a relatively small blue LCP list for my unassembled 8/8A wing kit just over $1000 USD - still waiting to hear back; just curious if they are starting to fulfill some of these yet, perhaps on select models?
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I ordered about $800 worth for my -10 Fuselage SB from the new portal, but haven't heard anything at all. I'd really love to make this purchase and finally end the whole LCP issue for me, once and for all.
 
Tall_Order said:
Did you order these through the LCP parts portal? The September 2023 link to the initial form just goes to a generic message, but the link to the new portal from Feb 2024 works and shows my part selections. The way I read it, we are to wait to be contacted and then confirm the final parts request via the portal. I have a relatively small blue LCP list for my unassembled 8/8A wing kit just over $1000 USD - still waiting to hear back; just curious if they are starting to fulfill some of these yet, perhaps on select models?
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They are indeed working through the Feb ‘24 portal submissions. I received a call yesterday asking me to confirm my submissions and identify any additional parts I might need.

My RV-14A emp, fuse, and wing full list of r/y/b/g LCP replacements (216 unique p/n) + associated rework parts (4 unique p/n) combined totals over 330 distinct parts. They said they expect to have them all crated and ready for shipment within the next 10 business days.
 
ccarlson said:
They are indeed working through the Feb ‘24 portal submissions. I received a call yesterday asking me to confirm my submissions and identify any additional parts I might need.

My RV-14A emp, fuse, and wing full list of r/y/b/g LCP replacements (216 unique p/n) + associated rework parts (4 unique p/n) combined totals over 330 distinct parts. They said they expect to have them all crated and ready for shipment within the next 10 business days.
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That's encouraging news for once.
 
I replaced all red, yellow and blue parts on my -10 wing kit, and a couple of green ones. My tanks and outboard leading edges are finished so I purchased everything needed to rebuild. Total cost was around $3,600.

I'm in the lost resale value camp. I believe a finished -10 with LCPs wont fetch as much as one without LCPs. As a practical example, I listed my finished LCP tanks here and didn't have a single inquiry. Still open to offers. https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1PPwE2mf--qXLcT8V3cpn4Ti3hm7v_Qtd
 
MIKE JG said:
That's encouraging news for once.
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I agree, and I am happy to offer it up here as encouragement for others. It will be interesting to see what news the next Ch 11 update brings.

It is no secret that I have been sharply critical throughout this process; however, I have been so while also being fair, patient, and cautiously optimistic (those things are not mutually or collectively exclusive). I hope the recent positive indications continue, and that builders in limbo with their QB structures receive definitive, acceptable, and actionable information very soon.
 
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Update... I just received the tracking numbers and invoice for my LCP replacements. Apparently there is also new hardware (rivets, and such) for the already built Emp. This is all the parts for my Emp, Fuz, and Wings. I ordered the blue parts for the Wings and Fuz. I have to do a more detailed inspection of my Emp structures to see what additional blue parts will be need. Luckily, I didn't have as many LCP in my Emp as I did in the Wings and Fuz. However, I do plan on rebuilding the impacted Emp structures just to be 100%. Supper excited to start building again. All the Vans team I communicated with for the delivery of my Finish kit (which I just recieved) and the LCPs were supper nice, and accommodating. I know some others have said the same, but I want to reiterate that Vans is getting it done. I wish it was faster (and less costly), but they are getting it done. I hope everyone gets a call, or email soon on their LCP, it feels so good!
 
What I think is odd, is that Vans was trusted to properly design and sell an aircraft that over time has proven to be quite good. It has even survived a lot of very amateurs builders and the test of time and even some repairmen. The experienced builders have not found a lot of issues and those are often corrected. So when that same engineering tells you that the use of LCP is not detrimental to the safety, reliability, or lifetime of the aircraft, why is only that that engineering questioned despite a lot of 3rd part testing?

I tagged all the red parts but mostly in case we screw up we have a backup part.
 
I am still waiting for Van's to send me a portal that I know exists, as it was sent to the previous owner and forwarded to me. I was told by Van's, when I finally made contact with "ANYONE", that I could not use it, as the portal was not mine, even though the kit is registered to me. They are operating with several different lists is what I was told. All that they want to do is to confirm my phone number and e-mail and tell me that "someone" will be in contact with me. I can't even start to order replacement parts...and...try to get anyone on phone to talk to !!
 
FlyHigh said:
I am still waiting for Van's to send me a portal that I know exists, as it was sent to the previous owner and forwarded to me. I was told by Van's, when I finally made contact with "ANYONE", that I could not use it, as the portal was not mine, even though the kit is registered to me. They are operating with several different lists is what I was told. All that they want to do is to confirm my phone number and e-mail and tell me that "someone" will be in contact with me. I can't even start to order replacement parts...and...try to get anyone on phone to talk to !!
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I am still waiting as well, and in the same boat with the kit being registered to me, but the original owner still getting emails.
 
garyg1 said:
What I think is odd, is that Vans was trusted to properly design and sell an aircraft that over time has proven to be quite good. It has even survived a lot of very amateurs builders and the test of time and even some repairmen. The experienced builders have not found a lot of issues and those are often corrected. So when that same engineering tells you that the use of LCP is not detrimental to the safety, reliability, or lifetime of the aircraft, why is only that that engineering questioned despite a lot of 3rd part testing?

I tagged all the red parts but mostly in case we screw up we have a backup part.
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Do you really not understand why some people don’t trust/like the answer or are you asking a rhetorical question?

Here a couple of reason:

- They chose an RV because there are many of them flying around with little/no issues for a long long time. Now Vans has substantially changed the manufacturing process without warning invalidating the reason they picked that kit in the first place. If there is a large fleet of LCP RVs flying happily 20 years from now that group of people would probably feel comfortable again. However, they don’t want to be the first one. They didn’t just trust the Vans engineers in the first place either. They trusted the validation of the manufacturing process and design provided by the fleet of RVs flying.

- The analysis was rushed. From experience whenever you rush an analysis the odds of errors goes up. Even the best engineers will make mistakes if you put enough pressure on them. Boing is a prime example.

- How do you inspect this in the future? In the past when you noticed a crack during annual inspection you just fixed it. Now if you see a crack you have to decide if its a good or bad crack. Right now there is zero guidances on how to do that. Your guess is as good as mine. I don’t think that’s really a long term acceptable solution.. .

Hope that answers your question.

Oliver
 
I don't think the analysis was rushed. I don't think the third party had a vested interest. I also think if they were truly defective/dangerous parts, there would be a recall of some sort with a way of verifying destruction of the old parts. A service bulletin. None of that seems to be happening. I don't think Vans is trying to screw anyone over as they volunteered to replace some parts despite the tests showing that they are without harm. There are many who will just use the laser cut parts or have already used them. This looks more like trying to keep the customer happy then based on planes falling out of the sky. And Vans appears to manufacture different kits in different ways, so it is not exactly the same for everyone.

I think whether it was manufactured with punched parts or laser cut is just a marketing statement. Like if Vans had bragged up laser cut parts for 20 yrs and then went to punch press parts, someone would complain that they intentionally bought the kit because of laser cut parts. We tried to sell some of punch press machines at work a couple of years ago (and I am in aerospace) and we couldn't give them away is my understanding. Most are going the way of lasers. Vans may end up using antiquated manufacturing techniques way past their prime.

As for future inspection, are you inspecting punch parts now? They can crack as well. The person who assembled the aircraft may have made mistakes. Can you see them? So your plane could have many cracked parts? I have a 1972 Aztec and I can assure you you will find a few cracked parts.

I am sure you saw this video:

Very informative. I think one day no one will care whether you replaced green or yellow or blue. Some might care about the red ones but it would be difficult to prove either way.
 
garyg1 said:
Very informative. I think one day no one will care whether you replaced green or yellow or blue. Some might care about the red ones but it would be difficult to prove either way.
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With all respect, that video reads like an infomercial. Instead of four "industry leaders" and builders, I would have preferred one independent expert part 23 aluminum aircraft structural engineer/analyst who could authoritatively speak to the issues. Also, it misrepresents the problem in one way: it isn't an issue of "one or two rivets" as one of the panel members states, but potentially every rivet in an assembly having cracks. AFAIK, no analysis was been produced regarding that. No comment was made regarding the potential damage and reduction in strength of assemblies that have to be completely deconstructed due to LCP. There were other issues I observed when I viewed it.

OTOH, the in-depth analysis video produced by Van's was good enough for me to go with just the red and orange parts (with one exception) even though it didn't address all the issues I mentioned above. I'm in the business (I'm no structural engineer though) and I'm used to some of the uncertainty in this kind of analysis. Others are probably not.

Also, Van's treated me reasonably fairly, all things considered. They provided the LCP replacements I requested and the necessary parts to reconstruct structure I requested, all gratis. They shipped the parts in the finish kit so there wasn't the issue of extra freight.

Am I completely happy? Nope. Am I totally angry? Nope. But I have a complete kit with parts I trust. I'm packaging all this up into that febrile COVID dream. Maybe we'll laugh about it some day.
 
garyg1 said:
I don't think the analysis was rushed. I don't think the third party had a vested interest. I also think if they were truly defective/dangerous parts, there would be a recall of some sort with a way of verifying destruction of the old parts. A service bulletin. None of that seems to be happening. I don't think Vans is trying to screw anyone over as they volunteered to replace some parts despite the tests showing that they are without harm. There are many who will just use the laser cut parts or have already used them. This looks more like trying to keep the customer happy then based on planes falling out of the sky. And Vans appears to manufacture different kits in different ways, so it is not exactly the same for everyone.

I think whether it was manufactured with punched parts or laser cut is just a marketing statement. Like if Vans had bragged up laser cut parts for 20 yrs and then went to punch press parts, someone would complain that they intentionally bought the kit because of laser cut parts. We tried to sell some of punch press machines at work a couple of years ago (and I am in aerospace) and we couldn't give them away is my understanding. Most are going the way of lasers. Vans may end up using antiquated manufacturing techniques way past their prime.

As for future inspection, are you inspecting punch parts now? They can crack as well. The person who assembled the aircraft may have made mistakes. Can you see them? So your plane could have many cracked parts? I have a 1972 Aztec and I can assure you you will find a few cracked parts.

I am sure you saw this video:

Very informative. I think one day no one will care whether you replaced green or yellow or blue. Some might care about the red ones but it would be difficult to prove either way.
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Couple of points back:

- I don't think Van's is trying to screw anybody over either. I also don't think Van's was trying to screw people over financially but still filed chapter 11 anyway and did... . Pretty sure Boing didn't intend to build an airplane that crashes either... . This is not about intend. It's about what will actually happen.
- Of course the analysis was rushed. Did you see the pressure Van's was under in Oshkosh. The comments that they were working weekends with few days off... .
- Please also note that with the chapter 11 filing Van's has no liability any more for LCP unless you filed your claim by 2/12. So legally they are of the hook no matter what happens now.
- Also note that at least one of the panelist is being payed regularly by Van's. Read the financial chapter 11 filings if you don't believe me. So your statement that nobody on the panel had a vested interest is factually incorrect.
- Yes I do inspect my punched parts, my drilled parts, my all parts for cracks at every conditional inspection. I hope you or your A&P does that too for your Aztec. Right now when I do I see no cracks I move on. If I do see a crack I fix it. Now with the LCP parts how do I decide which cracks are good and which are bad during my conditional inspection. The "no crack" standard doesn't work any more. If Van's would publish a procedure for that it would be a start... .
- I haven't seen anybody claiming that those parts are dangerous right now. The question is really about long term maintenance cost (all your $$ as Van's is of the hook). You might be perfectly right that in 20 years we know that it had no impact. However, as said before people selected this design because it was one of the least experimental experimental airplanes. Now they got an experiment. That's not what they wanted to buy.

Oliver
 
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Old saying in this business, "Trust, but verify".... Can't verify Van's results or the results of the other analysis for many years to come. So safer route is to just replace if it is feasible. That's what many of us have chosen to do at our own expense.
 
If LCP are so safe, why Vans stopped doing them? and don’t tell me that is because is more expensive as they claim…
 
For anyone wondering, parts selected in the LCP portal are indeed shipping.

I received 339 LCP replacement (I opted to replace all r/y/b/g in my kits) and 7 associated parts on Thursday, Feb 29. The total cost was $4,673.69 after tax and shipping. The $3,607.17 deposit on my AeroSun VXi tips was applied to the order. I am fresh out of pocket $1,066.52 for the parts, and I need to order wing tips (~$4,000).

One part (W00010-L) was damaged in transit (handling with care is hard), and Van’s agreed to file a claim with UPS and replace the part.

At this point, I have what I need to start building my -14 again. Now I am crossing my fingers and hoping the pending reorg plan is sound and sustainable.

As has been expressed numerous times in many places, all of this has been a bitter pill to swallow. Even though I achieved “peak LCP” in my kits, I know some of you are far more exposed than I was. I sincerely hope things work out acceptably for everyone.
 
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