VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #1  
Old 10-31-2021, 08:01 PM
dickson dickson is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2
Default Switching to experimental

I've been flying Certified for +10years +1000hours (Beechcraft-Sierra)
I feel It's time I switch to a more performant ship.
I never considered Experimental but I realize I was wrong.
I recently moved to the Bay Area, close to KSQL and I don't have access to a hangar.

I am looking for the shortest path to own and fly an RV but it scares me to end up with a poorly assembled kit.
Does it make sense to own an experimental plane if you don't build it yourself?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-31-2021, 08:25 PM
MacCool's Avatar
MacCool MacCool is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: central Minnesota
Posts: 983
Default

It sure made sense for me, after 50 years flying certified aircraft...I'll never go back. I admire those here that build these things from scratch, but airplane kit building is definitely not for me. Be aware that you don't have to do your own maintenance, but you can do what you're comfortable with. Me...I do some of the wiring and electronics (with help), and some of the airframe but I pretty much stop at the firewall and leave it in the hands of my local AI-P.

As to vetting the build quality of your proposed EA-B purchase...you get it thoroughly evaluated by an expert. There are a number of them here and you'll find them to be well worth the expense when you get to that stage.

Experimental aviation isn't hard, it's just different. Get someone to help you.
__________________
RV-9A, 2011, bought flying
IO-320D1A (factory new), C/S
IFR equipped
AFS 5400/3500, G5, IFD440 navigator,
bunch of other stuff

Last edited by MacCool : 10-31-2021 at 08:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-31-2021, 09:04 PM
catmandu's Avatar
catmandu catmandu is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sierra Nevada
Posts: 1,045
Default

Like the certified world, your key is a proper pre-buy from a suitable person. The difference is that pre-buy could be done by someone other than a mechanic, like a knowledgeable builder.

Do your homework, and jump in. I did, so there's that.

Signed,

Some Guy On The Internet.
__________________
Mike C.
Sierra Nevada
RV-6A bought flying (for sale soon)
Super-8 bought flying
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-01-2021, 08:25 AM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,330
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmandu View Post
Like the certified world, your key is a proper pre-buy from a suitable person. The difference is that pre-buy could be done by someone other than a mechanic, like a knowledgeable builder.

Do your homework, and jump in. I did, so there's that.

Signed,

Some Guy On The Internet.
^^^^^^^ AGREE ^^^^^^^

Just follow this advice. I did the switch 14years ago and am SO GLAD I DID!

__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2022 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-01-2021, 09:36 AM
Tankerpilot75's Avatar
Tankerpilot75 Tankerpilot75 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 750
Default

I second the choice for experimental aviation and the need for a thorough pre-buy by an “experienced, qualified builder/mechanic.” However, remember the airplane you eventually purchase will not be perfect! RV’s are experimental - amateur built aircraft (emphasis on amateur built).

I purchased my RV7A a little over six years ago from its original builder. My prebuy was not done by an RV expert but by a local A&P/IA. There were a lot of build quality items he missed during the prebuy that came back quickly to haunt my purchase decision that I truly questioned whether I had wasted my money.

The good news was these issues were “fixable” with only one true airworthiness issue requiring an expert to address. It took eighteen months of “fly and fix” to completely get the aircraft where I wanted it but I learned so much in the process that I wouldn’t trade the experience for anything. As a Vans technician advised me during my initial aircraft search, you can minimize build quality concerns by focusing your search on Quick Build kit aircraft but you cannot eliminate them.

My suggestion is find the RV you like, have an experienced builder AP/IA evaluate the potential aircraft, come to an agreement that seems fair to both parties and then set aside a reserve amount to cover “undiscovered prebuy issues” because there will be some.

Remember, airplanes by definition are: “ a vacuum in space that suck up your money.” However, experimental aircraft also offer the ability to expand your knowledge by allowing you to address these issues yourself that certified aircraft rules prevent you from addressing without an A&P doing the work. Besides, they’re generally much more fun to fly and have better technology than affordable certified aircraft.

The GA aircraft population is getting quite old. Most have had numerous A&P/IAs work on them with varying degrees of knowledge and quality. Lots of updates and upgrades have occurred over time that frankly make the fleet just as questionable as the experimental market. My belief is that “bang for buck” the experimental fleet offers more - it just requires a more specialized, thorough prebuy before an exchange of ownership occurs.
__________________
Jim Harris, ATP, T38, EC/KC-135A/E/R, 2008 RV7A, 2nd owner, N523RM (2015)
Superior XPIO-360 B1AA2, Hartzel CS prop, Dual GRT Horizon EX with ARINC, EIS, Garmin 340, 335 w/WAAS gps, Dual 430s (non-WAAS), TruTrak 385 A/P with auto-level & auto-trim, Tosten 6 button Military Grips, FlightBox wired to EX, Dynon D10A w/battery backup, 406 MHz ELT. Mountain High O2 system, CO2 monitor, Custom Interior, TS Flightline hoses, ETX900 Battery, Great POH!
Retired - Living the dream - going broke!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-01-2021, 10:10 AM
jneves's Avatar
jneves jneves is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 180
Default

I just went from certified to EAB and bought a flying RV-6A, no time free to build for the next few years, but it will happen. It's not scary once you realize that a good pre-buy is worth it's cost. If you can get a pre-buy and a once over by a local (to the purchased plane) RV'er you'll ensure a solid purchase. Like others have said, you don't need to do anything you're not comfortable with, I don't touch anything engine critical, yet, and may never do so, but I will assist an AP on engine items so I can learn and better understand my bird.

I'm more excited now about owning then I was in the certified world.
__________________
Johnny

N455DM - RV-6A - Bought Flying - 2021
Tip Up Canopy
IO-360-A2B
FP 66" Catta 3 blade Carbon
IFR - 2 Garmin G5s - 430W - GFC500
JPI EMS-350 to monitor the temps
N89WD - Flight Design CTSW - Sold 2021
Donation Happily Made!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-01-2021, 10:37 AM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 2,174
Default So True

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankerpilot75 View Post

The GA aircraft population is getting quite old. Most have had numerous A&P/IAs work on them with varying degrees of knowledge and quality. Lots of updates and upgrades have occurred over time that frankly make the fleet just as questionable as the experimental market. My belief is that “bang for buck” the experimental fleet offers more - it just requires a more specialized, thorough pre-buy before an exchange of ownership occurs.
Having been an Aircraft mechanic, and looking over rental aircraft just for kicks, I can attest to this fact. After 30 years of maintenance, those certified planes get to be scary to me. At least with experimental, one could update to modern technology without much trouble: rip out the old panel, and install new avionics, replace the engine for a new factory fresh, and with RVs, new parts are still available and probably will for the foreseeable future; cant say that about other kit manufacturers.
__________________
John S

WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2022, worth every penny

RV9A- Status:
98% done, 2% left to go
Structure done (less gear)
Electrical/Panel done
Firewall Forward 95% done
Fiberglass 70%
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-01-2021, 11:18 AM
abwaldal@gmail.com abwaldal@gmail.com is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Battle Ground WA
Posts: 465
Default DO IT!!

Just DO it!!!!!
And you will be a happier person. BUT make sure to get a good prebuy.
I bought a 6 kit in 1991 didn't get to work on it till 2001 Life and making money got in the way. Made a lot of it.
Oh ya it is still not finished. Worked on it in 2001 2002 and a bit in 2003. 1043 hours of construction.
Had a Cessna 206 to fly,
Didn't give up on the 6, BUT, I bought a finished 6A five years ago after I sold the 206.
Yes it is not perfect but I'm a mechanic and can fix anything. I still have the 6 and now own a hangar to finish it in.
I should have sold the 206 a long time ago and bought a 6A to fly.
If I was in your shoes, I'd be looking finding and getting a good RV experimental prebuy and go for it. Get ready to put some bumpers on your fun meter.
You will never go back.
Art
__________________
Fixit
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-01-2021, 12:15 PM
Taltruda Taltruda is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,140
Default

I feel that the experimental market is better for several reasons, including that they (especially the RV series) generally do things that the certified versions can’t get close to! Just remember that experimental aircraft aren’t supposed to be an alternative to certified, they are primarily for education and “experimentation”, although the mainstream experimental aircraft are pretty proven and cookie cutter when built to plans. I would love to see an experimental version of a Bonanza A36 with the huge baggage door, or a Cessna 185 type having speed, utility and good looks!
__________________
Tom
Las Vegas
RV-4 flying…
RV-8 empenage finished 10-2020

Wings Started.. 11-2020
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-01-2021, 12:51 PM
rv6n6r's Avatar
rv6n6r rv6n6r is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Gearhart Oregon
Posts: 486
Default

The question is not so much certified vs experimental, it's what is the right plane for what you want to do. If that is to fly something with a fantastic balance of high performance, low speed handling, reasonable short-field capability and good handling on the ground in a well-proven design with thousands flying and great support and parts availability for not exorbitant cost, you can get an experimental RV, or a certified... what? Sorry I can't think of anything.
__________________
Randall Henderson
RV-6 / O-360 / CS, 1600+ hrs, 1st flight Sept. 1999
Outstanding Workmanship OSH 2000, Craftsmanship award AWO 2000
Airport committee chair & AOPA ASNV for Seaside, OR Municipal (56S), www.seasideairport.org
Last Donated January 2022
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:21 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.