VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.






VAF on Twitter:
@VansAirForceNet

  #1  
Old 09-24-2022, 12:12 PM
claycookiemonster's Avatar
claycookiemonster claycookiemonster is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midway, UT
Posts: 515
Default Aero Sport Power Build School

I’m just back from the Aero Sport Power build school that ran from September 20 thru 22, 2022. Over the course of two days, I built an IO-375-M1S for my RV-8. I wanted to write this up while it was fresh in my mind.

My first and simplest bit of advice: do this! Find a way. Make it happen. If you’re already building an airframe, why wouldn’t you build the engine? Unless you’ve already built so many IO-3XX engines that you’re bored with it, you will be educated and amazed. Trust me.

For a variety of reasons, including the fact that my project was originally begun in Canada, I contacted Aero Sport Power about an engine order. I communicated at length with their salesman, Darren, about all the options before sending in the deposit check. Then he mentioned the possibility of attending the Build School if COVID protocols permitted. The world finally calmed down, and so it happened.

Upon arrival at ASP on Day 1, you will be met by your mechanic/mentor and brought through the warren of their operation to your very own build room. Every single component for your specific engine will be waiting for you, carefully laid out on a cart. My mechanic, Tammy, explained how it would go. She would show me the next step, and demonstrate the first item to be done, whether it was installing one of the main bearings or compressing the rings on a piston to insert it into the cylinder barrel, and then I would do the rest. She would hand me the torque wrench, already set correctly, and fasteners as we went, and then she’d check all the torques after I was done. And it came together blazingly fast. Bearings on case halves and connecting rods. Counterweights on the crank. Camshaft and sealant and thread on case halves, and before the coffee was cold, the case was standing up on the bench with rods extending from the cylinder openings. And, I did 3/4’s, or 5/6’s or 7/8’s of it. She did the first one, and I did the rest. The Lubriplate was there. The Locktite was there. Nuts, bolts and washers were there. The odd twisted wrenches to torque the cylinder barrels in place were ready. Building an engine this way is FAR easier than that **** trim tab! Because I wasn’t alone.

At points along the way, the assembly would stop, and Tammy would call in another mechanic to check how we were doing. They’d confirm our torques by resetting the wrench themselves and clicking everything we’d just done. They’d eyeball everything, and sign it off as an observer in the same paperwork Tammy was completing as we went. There were a few things I didn’t want to do. I’m not very artful at safety wire, and so Tammy did all of it. It’s your choice.

Day 2 continued the same way. Rocker arms and push rods and starter and ignition systems and fuel lines go effortlessly into place. We timed the E-Mags until the green lights came on exactly right. By lunch, the shelves that had held all the parts were empty. It was shocking. I had built my engine.

The test run happened after lunch. This is not just a simple, “lets gas it up and see if it runs!” thing. My engine was carefully hoisted onto a mount on the back of a truck with a full set of engine instruments in the cab. Throttle and mixture controls were connected. This was a full installation. Oil was heated and added under pressure to make sure every nook and cranny was lubed.

It started the first time. Two full test runs were accomplished and all engine parameters are recorded at different power settings. The engine is filled with protective oil and a final check of all accessible fittings is completed before torque seal is applied. It will be prepared for storage and crated and should be in my garage within two weeks.

As to the logistics of Build School, the day begins at 8am and by 4:30pm of day 1 you will have done most of the assembly. There is a mid-morning 30-minute break at 10 and another 30-minute lunch at noon. Plan on bringing lunch, there is no cafeteria or restaurant near ASP. Depending on how the build is going, there may be another break in the afternoon. You will be standing all of the time while building, and there will be oil and grease and solvents. So, bring sturdy comfortable shoes that can accept spills. Ditto for clothes, especially your shirt. You do a lot of hugging of your engine as you build it. Wearing overalls wouldn’t be out of place, though none of the technicians did. You won’t likely need heavy work gloves, but you will spend quite a bit of time in rubber gloves to keep the Lubriplate away. If you have very small or very large hands, I’d suggest bringing your own. Eye and ear protection wouldn’t hurt.

Kamloops, British Columbia, is a beautiful area. ASP is on an airport, so flying yourself in is possible. There’s commercial service as well, but flights into Kamloops only seem to originate in Calgary or Edmonton. In the end, I drove from the Salt Lake area and enjoyed every mile of it. ASP will send you recommendations for local hotels, and unless you have a good reason to go elsewhere, I’d go where they recommend. You’ll get a great corporate rate. Kamloops is a medium sized town, and the hotel they suggest is only a 10-minute drive from the airport. There are plenty of walkable restaurants nearby.

And, Darren, the salesman I dealt with at the beginning of this saga? It turns out he’s built over 500 engine. He’s what we used to call the “MFWIC” in the Air Force. Trust him. I did. And now, just as I can remember seeing the wings and fuel talks coming together, I can also recall the heft of the crankshaft and the delicacy of bending the fuel lines between the spider and the injectors.

It was a fabulous experience, and I have zero regrets. It reinvigorated my build. Because now, the sooner I get done, the sooner I get to hear my engine run again. I can’t wait.
__________________
Clay "Cookiemonster" Cook
USAF: T-38, F-111F
American Airlines: 727, MD80, 757, 767, 737
RV8 #81751 project sold
RV8 #81651 project acquired
https://theonceandfutureflyer.wordpress.com/
Donations up to date thru December 2015

"...serenity...courage...and wisdom..."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-24-2022, 03:10 PM
hoyden hoyden is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 109
Default

Clay, thanks for posting your experience. I'm signed up to build an IO-320 for my RV-9 in mid October. I also worked with Darren to select my options. Reading your experience makes the school feel a bit more real for me.
__________________
RV-6 IO-360, CS
RV-9 QB fuselage
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-24-2022, 03:44 PM
claycookiemonster's Avatar
claycookiemonster claycookiemonster is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midway, UT
Posts: 515
Default

It's very easy and very simple, actually. It's also really well organized. One look at the parts on the storage shelves, with pistons next to their associated connecting rods said it all. These guys are pros. It also revealed just how much of my build time is lost to pondering and questioning and searching for the right tool, and rehearsing how to do it, and then deciding which follow-on task to tackle next. Under the watchful and expert eyes of one of ASP's mechanics, you never question or pause or wonder. You just DO. Everyone is friendly and helpful and it will be over too soon. Take lots of photos! It will be over too soon.
__________________
Clay "Cookiemonster" Cook
USAF: T-38, F-111F
American Airlines: 727, MD80, 757, 767, 737
RV8 #81751 project sold
RV8 #81651 project acquired
https://theonceandfutureflyer.wordpress.com/
Donations up to date thru December 2015

"...serenity...courage...and wisdom..."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-28-2022, 04:58 PM
MadDogBadger MadDogBadger is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Titusville, FL
Posts: 1
Default ASP Build School

I was up at Kamloops the week before you doing the same engine build - the only difference was that I worked with Kelly and she was fantastic. My wife went along for the first day and we each did about half of the work. She was very limited in her knowledge of working with tools but was helped along and had a great time.

Overall - great experience. Great company and great time.
__________________
Ken Novak
------------
RV-7 in process
Currently flying A-320
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-28-2022, 05:16 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 3,262
Default

Thanks for posting Clay,

I'm curious, I don't see much info on their website about what options for engines, other than just going through their build quote menus. They don't post hp numbers for their IO-375. Can you say?

Also I am curious about cost. If you are doing the assembly labor, but you are taking up their mechanic time for supervision, is that about a wash, and the cost would be about the same as just buying an engine outright? Or is there a premium for the build school? Seems like there would be, you are, after all, gaining tons of knowledge and experience. But can you say much about prices?

For my next RV-8, I am arguing with myself about IO-540, IO-360 turbo, or IO-390. lots of factors.
__________________
Steve Smith
Aeronautical Engineer
RV-8 N825RV
IO-360 A1A
WW 200RV
"The Magic Carpet" Flying since Sept. 2009
Hobbs 725
also
1/4 share in 1959 C-182B (tow plane)
LS6-15/18W sailplane SOLD
bought my old LS6-A back!!
VAF donation Dec 2021
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-28-2022, 07:58 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,058
Default

Question: Some assemblers mic and/or plastigauge various pieces and assemblies during the build. Did you go through any steps like that during assembly? If not, had someone at Aerosport already done all of that, or do they work under the assumption that the parts are as described in the paperwork and should fit right out of the box?
__________________
Kyle Boatright
Marietta, GA
2001 RV-6 N46KB
2019? (actually 2022) RV-10 N46BX
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-28-2022, 09:30 PM
KiloFoxtrot's Avatar
KiloFoxtrot KiloFoxtrot is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: IL
Posts: 96
Default Agree...great engine build school

I concur that Aerosport is a must for engine build school. I attended and documented with pictures the process of the build for my IO-360. You can search my post and find the link to a dropbox link of pictures. Download if you wish so you can refer for later use.

See my post Engine build school pictures IO-360
__________________
RV7A tip up
Superior IO-360-M1S Aerosport build school=Excellent. See post: Engine build school pictures IO-360
Tail / Fuse / Wings are complete + painted. I used Sherwin Williams JetGlo solids and AcryGlo metalics.
Leather seats by Flightline Interiors.
Still to do: Firewall forward, cowling fit and paint, G3X avionics.
FLY
Dues Paid
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-29-2022, 01:15 AM
Dad's RV-10 Dad's RV-10 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: FL Gulf Coast & NYC
Posts: 309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiloFoxtrot View Post
...See my post Engine build school pictures IO-360
Did you mean to include a link to Engine build school pictures IO-360?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-29-2022, 02:26 AM
Stewbronco Stewbronco is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Langley BC
Posts: 320
Default HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by scsmith View Post
Thanks for posting Clay,

I'm curious, I don't see much info on their website about what options for engines, other than just going through their build quote menus. They don't post hp numbers for their IO-375. Can you say?

Also I am curious about cost. If you are doing the assembly labor, but you are taking up their mechanic time for supervision, is that about a wash, and the cost would be about the same as just buying an engine outright? Or is there a premium for the build school? Seems like there would be, you are, after all, gaining tons of knowledge and experience. But can you say much about prices?

For my next RV-8, I am arguing with myself about IO-540, IO-360 turbo, or IO-390. lots of factors.
From 2009 …..low compression O-375 makes 195 hp and is happy with mogas..hi compression makes 205 plus hp but needs 100 LL . They have put nitrous on some and made close to 300 hp ..not recommended but proves durability. Weighs same as equivalent model O-360 and only ten pounds more than new style O-320;with 3/8” thick prop flange
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-29-2022, 11:23 AM
claycookiemonster's Avatar
claycookiemonster claycookiemonster is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midway, UT
Posts: 515
Default

I worked with Kelly too! Another guy, named Edwin, was in the next room building an IO-320 without a co-builder. He was the one who came into check on our progress, and occasionally Kelly would go over to his room and check on him. After building with Kelly, Edwin did the first test run, and then another guy did the second test run.

Mine in an IO-375 M1S with dual E-mags and dual alternators and 9.0:1 pistons making 200hp and requiring 100LL.

It was interesting to compare the build speed between Kelly (pro) and I (amateur) with Edwin (pro) in the next room building alone, and it was about a draw. Four hands certainly makes some tasks easier, even if two of them aren't fully qualified. I also think Kelly could ready the next step while I was doing the last one. It felt really good. This is my first build and I'm certainly not an experienced engine guy, but I was competent and could follow instructions. I think that's all you need.

There is no cost for attending the Build School added to the price of your engine. You will incur travel costs to come and go and hotel and restaurants while there. FYI, the Canadian dollar is currently $0.77 US Dollars. Prices are quoted, and payment is made in US Dollars for Aero Sport Power engines. I assume prices for Canadian customers are in Canadian dollars and would be different.

You are right, the ASP website isn't full of build details or options. So, send an email to them, and begin a conversation. Come with your ideas and wants and talk to Darren. I was happy it was a conversation rather than a menu.

My final, out the door price, on September 9, 2022 was $47,944.70. That included the engine configured as above, plus two alternators $1260, plus two oil filters $63.50, plus two cases of break in oil $211.20. Also included was a crating charge of $250, freight and international brokerage charges of $376 and a shipping insurance charge of $898. A deposit of $10,000 was required to get the build underway.

You all know that if it F's or F's or F's, it's cheaper to rent. Airplanes are never going to be cheap. I'm sure I could have done this cheaper, but I have ZERO regrets or second thoughts about doing it the way I did.
__________________
Clay "Cookiemonster" Cook
USAF: T-38, F-111F
American Airlines: 727, MD80, 757, 767, 737
RV8 #81751 project sold
RV8 #81651 project acquired
https://theonceandfutureflyer.wordpress.com/
Donations up to date thru December 2015

"...serenity...courage...and wisdom..."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:28 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.