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  #1  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:05 PM
dabney dabney is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: valencia, ca
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Default Why are some RV12's EAB and some ELSA?

I am looking to buy an RV12 and have been told I could run into ones that are registered as EAB or ELSA.

What are the differences in ownership/operation etc?

When I asked one owner of a RV12 about the Operating Limitations, he said there were none. Is that possible?
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:16 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
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Location: Riley TWP MI
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The main difference for you is that if the plane is registered as E-AB, you must hire an A&P to do the annual inspection (unless the builder does it). If it is registered as E-LSA, then you can do the annual inspection yourself after taking a 16 hour class and getting a repairman's certificate.
There must be operating limitations.
It it is wise to have a pre-buy inspection by someone like Vic Syracuse.
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:36 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Builder's choice. To qualify as ELSA the aircraft must be built exactly per plans and all parts must be purchased from the kit manufacturer.
Some people prefer to make minor or major modifications during the build. Or in some cases they may already have an engine or avionics and prefer to install these as opposed to ordering new from Vans. The builder my opt for EAB so that he/she doesn't have to go to class to obtain the repairman certificate. EAB can be modified to take it out of the Light-Sport parameters. ELSA cannot. There can be a multitude of reasons.
EAB is not necessarily better or worse than ELSA. Just different.
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:42 PM
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rolivi rolivi is offline
 
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Location: Fort Worth
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Hey Mel -

Is it true that the classification at first Airworthiness is the only one that can ever be? Meaning, it's either S-LSA or E-LSA forever.

There's a conversation on some other forum about this, and I thought there was only one chance to select.

Thanks.
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2018, 01:07 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolivi View Post
Hey Mel -
Is it true that the classification at first Airworthiness is the only one that can ever be? Meaning, it's either S-LSA or E-LSA forever.
There's a conversation on some other forum about this, and I thought there was only one chance to select.
Thanks.
If it is EAB, it's forever. If it's ELSA, it's forever. If it's SLSA it may be changed to ELSA.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
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USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2018, 01:58 PM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
If it is EAB, it's forever. If it's ELSA, it's forever. If it's SLSA it may be changed to ELSA.
And if SLSA is changed to ELSA it is forever - no going back...
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2022, 08:28 AM
Sharum Sharum is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Fort Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Builder's choice. To qualify as ELSA the aircraft must be built exactly per plans and all parts must be purchased from the kit manufacturer.
Some people prefer to make minor or major modifications during the build. Or in some cases they may already have an engine or avionics and prefer to install these as opposed to ordering new from Vans. The builder my opt for EAB so that he/she doesn't have to go to class to obtain the repairman certificate. EAB can be modified to take it out of the Light-Sport parameters. ELSA cannot. There can be a multitude of reasons.
EAB is not necessarily better or worse than ELSA. Just different.
My question would be.... If I already have a 100hp Rotax 912-ULS (exact engine spec-d for this kit) and not buy one thru Vans... would that require me to go the E-AB route? In other words... does it have to meet spec or does it have to be purchased thru kit manufacturer?
Thanks for any information you can offer.

David
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2022, 08:44 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharum View Post
In other words... does it have to meet spec or does it have to be purchased thru kit manufacturer?
Thanks for any information you can offer.
The answer is yes to both questions.
Meeting the second requirement automatically assures it meets the first one.

Van's has to supply an ELSA builder with a form (Form 8130-15) certifying that the airplane kit was delivered able to be built as an exact copy of our SLSA aircraft. The able part is because it is then the builders responsibility to build it that way, and they have to sign the same form at certification certifying that they did so.
Van's is burdened with assuring that happens, and to help assure that, the FAA requires Van's to supply all components in order to sign the form certifying it as an ELSA kit.
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2022, 08:51 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The answer is yes to both questions.
Meeting the second requirement automatically assures it meets the first one.
Van's has to supply an ELSA builder with a form (Form 8130-15) certifying that the airplane kit was delivered able to be built as an exact copy of our SLSA aircraft. The able part is because it is then the builders responsibility to build it that way, and they have to sign the same form at certification certifying that they did so.
Van's is burdened with assuring that happens, and to help assure that, the FAA requires Van's to supply all components in order to sign the form certifying it as an ELSA kit.
As Scott says, Van's furnishes all components to build as an E-LSA. You must "show" the inspector that you built the aircraft exactly per the plans with no modifications. If there are any deviations from the plans, you must submit written documentation from the kit manufacturer approving such deviations.
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EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2018, 03:04 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabney View Post

When I asked one owner of a RV12 about the Operating Limitations, he said there were none. Is that possible?
No one has answered this part of your question.

No it is not possible. Even SLAS's have operating limitations.

Perhaps he lost them.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

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Hubbard, Oregon
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
FAA/DAR
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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