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Electric heater floor in hangar?

RickWoodall

Well Known Member
Renovating an old hangar and pouring a new concrete floor. Considering putting a drive way snow melt type heated cable in cement pad under plane and work bench that can be fired up when going in to work in the really cold times.
Anyone used something like this? Pros or cons? As I get older cold concrete really isnt much fun. Just looking at ideas. Done need hangar hot, just take the deep chill out.
 
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What about a hydronic system??

Whatever you use, insulate under the slab with some rigid foam board.
 
You'll run it a few times, get the electric bill and then never run it again.


With hydronic, you have the option of solar water panels on the roof..........
 
As others have mentioned, electric bills will cause heart stoppage, thereby invalidating your pilot's medical!

Hydronic is the way to go in our climate. Insulation under the slab is a must.

Keep in mind that you're trying to heat up a very large thermal mass. Heated floors work best when asked to keep a constant temperature. It's definitely not the kind of heat one would use if one wanted to turn it on at lunch so one would be warm working in the hangar in the afternoon. Turn it on at lunch two days before you want to work!

If you're looking at "bang for the buck" some of the best things you can do is to ensure you have insulation under your concrete slab, run hydronic heating lines in the slab for that time when you win the lottery and can afford to heat your hangar all winter long. These provisions won't cost you very much (ok, the insulation is expensive but very worth it). To make your work life a little better, consider laying down an insulating layer on the floor and using overhead radiant heat to keep you warm.

In our hangar (which is far more like a farm implement shed or pole barn) I have asphalt on the floor. Atop the asphalt is a layer of cheap chipboard. Over the chipboard I've installed used carpeting. It doesn't look all that good, but this combination really increases comfort in the winter. Plus the carpet ensures that washer or nut you dropped doesn't go rolling across the hangar!

For radiant heating, consider using a setup much like an I.V. pole... A wheeled trolley with a vertical rod terminating in a Tee... One or two inexpensive electric radiant heaters may be installed on this mobile heater, allowing you to move it to wherever you are working.
 
Rick,
If you use a pex pipe system in the slab, you will get good floor heat but it will not heat up fast. You can maintain temp if you are going to use it all the time.

I am a big fan of radiant heating in homes. It is the best and probably the most efficient. As Mike said, you have to make sure you use rigid insulation at least 2" thick under the slab and down the sides of the foundation. That will make a huge difference. If you have access to natural gas or propane if it is reasonable cost, you can get a high efficiency boiler and it will work great - if you keep it running.

For hangars and garages that get occasional or even regular use of less than 8 hours a day probably would be better with a ceiling tube radiant heater. The floor insulation is still a great idea. This is just a sample to consider. I am having 2 tube heaters put in a pool house at one of our apartment complexes we are building. I can send you info if you want. Good luck https://www.grainger.com/product/7AR84?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_eD1zbDd6wIVDvDACh097gD-EAQYAyABEgKc7fD_BwE&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMI_eD1zbDd6wIVDvDACh097gD-EAQYAyABEgKc7fD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!264955916048!!!g!502441189157!&gucid=N:N:pS:paid:GGL:CSM-2295:XU4CJF:20500731
 
In-floor hot water does not have a fast recovery time. My 36X48 shop in Iowa has it and the doors need to be really sealed well in the winter when the cold wind blows. I can't speak to electric tape heat.
If I were to do it over, I'd use overhead radiant heat. Faster recovery, more controllable.
I set my thermostat to 60°F and it's all you need because there is no air movement.
 
thanks

The hangar is getting new concrete and they are suggesting vapor barrier and then apparently spray foam 2" insulation under slab, 2" foam along door foundation wall 4' deep.

There is no water or gas available sadly. There are driveway snow melt systems out there that are pretty cheap, just wires that get buried 2" under concrete and plan was to set it at a very min temp and turn it on or up 6 hours before any hangar work days just to remove the deep cant feel your feet chill. Certainly a space heater or two would work but cold concrete isnt much fun. Will likely use some industrial carpet of rubber floor product to help a bit. thank you
 
I put in radiant heat one tube in front of Hangar door. My hanger is 50 x 50 I keep it at 55° through the winter and the cost is usually under $100 a month to heat the Hangar. I am up here in Canada in southern Ontario so I put 3‘ x 2“ thick of insulation around the entire exterior of the hanger, I’ve had the hangar for 10 years the floor has never heaved or cracked.
 
Aussie Dave beat me to it!

I was gonna say get some insulated, battery-powered heated boots! You can buy a lot of batteries for what it would cost to heat the entire hangar floor!

Maybe rechargeable batteries?
 
Keep your core temperature up (head, chest) and the body will be more likely to push blood to your extremities which will make your feet warmer.
On the building heating side of things, it would be hard to pass up an air source heat pump mini split. This will have far less thermal inertia than a in-slab heating system, and at a 7degC ambient temperature it will likely produce about 3.5kWh of heat for every kWh of electricity used. Sure the efficiency will deteriorate as you get down into the sub zero conditions, but when it’s super cold just use a cheap resistive element space heater in addition to the heat pump when it can’t keep up. Best split system heat pumps are generally by Dakin and Mitsubishi. Look for ones with R32 refrigerant and the highest Coefficient of Performance (COP) possible for optimum efficiency. You can also set the heat pump on a timer so that it kicks in during the middle of the day for a few hours in winter. This will ensure the heat pump operates at its maximum efficiency point, and the warm air in the hangar will keep the humidity low. Main thing is though, go big in the insulation during the build. It’s a lot easier to update the heat source in the future than it is to update the insulation. PM me if you have any more questions. I do energy auditing for a day job.

Tom.
 
What's the yearly average temperature?

If you dig a trench so deep (can't recall depth at the moment) the temp at that depth will be the yearly average.


Then circulate water thru that piping into the slab.

Slab will be at average yearly temp.


Doubles for cooling in summer................
 
heated floor

Having retired from 41 years in the building industry I have found and proven that air leakage is the biggest robber of our heat and cool in the summer. NO air quality isn't the big problem people are afraid of when sealing up a building. You can't seal it up tight enough.
We have installed floor heating systems in the past and it is slow to heat,and costly to keep heating. It is Not a turn it on, go to work situation. As previously said it should stay on.
I don't live in Canada but I like heat and cool. My hanger was a leaky thing when I bought it, But after more insulation and sheet rocking and sealing any crack I could find. OH ya I insulated the %^ out of it including the door. It is pretty good now. 92 degrees outside and the inside is 68-71 usually with no help.
We built energy efficient homes and sealed the ^@#^@ out of them and got super good results. We couldn't seal them up tight enough because it isn't possible.
Up there I would use at least 2" under slab and 6 mil black visqueen for sure. Find a way to make a thermal break in/around the slab to the out side air connection.
The heating source is up to you but the In ground piping heating/cooling situation is questionable. The ground down there is warmer than the air we live in during the winter BUT the ground is a good insulator also. So once you have extracted the heat out of the ground around the pipes it doesn't keep giving you heat it just gets cold and the efficiency goes down.
I have a heat pump with back up electrical strips as standard.
Oh ya for comfort one can put commercial carpet on the floor for the contact cooling effect.
Yes I know I put all my three cents in and your mileage may vary.
Art
 
Seal the obvious air leaks, spray foam insulation, and get a bullet heater that runs on kerosene/diesel/JetA. If the hangar has wifi, plug the heater into an Alexa-driven outlet, start the heater with the phone app when you leave for the hangar and by the time you get there itwill be toasty.
 
Seal the obvious air leaks, spray foam insulation, and get a bullet heater that runs on kerosene/diesel/JetA. If the hangar has wifi, plug the heater into an Alexa-driven outlet, start the heater with the phone app when you leave for the hangar and by the time you get there it will be toasty.

And all of the spiders will be DEAD.......:eek:
 
Rick, Rick, Rick...

When I travel to Florida in the wintertime, I can always identify home of origin by the clothes folks are wearing:
Native Floridians are in down jackets with fur hats.
Michigan natives are in shorts and golf shirts, with baseball caps on top.
Canadians are on the beaches in swimsuits, oiled and with no sunscreen.

Floor heaters? Really? And you call yourself a Canadian?

On the other hand, getting old is not for sissies - this I know.

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Hey

Funny. I dont mind the cold at all within reason. Only issue is I am relocating from a huge hangar with heat and epoxy floors and insulation and tons of room to a small t-hangar that is the most basic uninsulated tin shed you can imagine with bad bones and a badly heaved floor.

I am going to spend some $ and do spray foam insulation, all new concrete floor etc. Just trying to make it as nice as i can within reason and happy to spend a bit to make it something i am proud to own for the next 20 years.

With a new pad going in, just thought one of those driveway snow melting systems that heats up pretty quick might be cool to lay down under new pour and plug in for a few hours on work days and take slab from ice box to not bad during plane work days once some insulation is up. Very occasional use, but a fun toy/luxury
I have a blank slate on renovation ideas, just looking for ideas to make it really nice without getting all silly on the spend. There was a thread on here one time with nice hangar pics but cant find it lately. Just like seeing what people have done and what would be great to do.
 
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Snow melt

Have no experience with the northern locations , but in the mid-Atlantic states we can get some significant snow events followed by a cold snap ( relative to what we're used to) . The absolute best defense against snow lingering in front of the hangar is Southern exposure. Northern facing hangars the snow will last in the shadow of the hangars for a week or more even when the daytime temperatures get above freezing, southern facing hangars sunshine melts the snow pronto.
 
If you don't go with the in-floor heat or maybe even if you do, I'd recommend epoxy painting your floor. I was amazed at the difference in just general comfort -- "feels" less cold even if it isn't, somehow feels softer, keeps the concrete from weeping dust and moisture (maybe not as much of an issue if you seal underneath however), just all around a better surface than bare concrete.
 
I'd use an air or radiant heater of sorts. Electric, propane, natural gas, kerosene/diesel, wood, whatever's available. They're cheaper to operate and have a quick reaction time. Turn the heat on, and the hangar is warm in 30 minutes.

For the cold concrete, grab a couple 3'x6' pieces of old thin carpet and slide them around to wherever you are working. Not only is concrete cold, but it's also very hard and your joints will thank you for something softer to stand on.
 
Post #6 & #9 agree with my own experience.

Good insulation and an overhead tube radiant heater are the best return for the money. You could use a 400 lb propane bottle to get you through a winter.
 
Heat

Post #6 & #9 agree with my own experience.

Good insulation and an overhead tube radiant heater are the best return for the money. You could use a 400 lb propane bottle to get you through a winter.
I had no heat or insulation in my first workspace, an underground garage, and I used those super-efficient Japanese propane heaters. They worked really well, but they put out a lot of moisture - something to be aware of. Also, it's not a good idea to use them when doing fiberglass work, I'm told by some experts.

If you can afford the electricity, I think the radiant heaters would be best. I use a small one in my new workshop, and it's very efficient and effective.
 
Out here in Santa Fe, NM many of our homes and in some cases garages (and even sidewalks) are heated with radiant floor heat. That's a tube snaking around in the concrete like a giant radiator. In my case it runs off of a gas heated small boiler but it could be an electric boiler.

There are multiple zones so you can set each zone differently if you like. Because you are heating up a thermal mass and not the air you can open a door, let the wind come in and as soon as you close the the warmth is back. As others have mentioned it takes some time to get the heated mass warmed up, but you just set the temp where you want it and worry about it until the next season comes along. I have gotten spoiled to warm floors in the winter.

Our winters are nothing like Minn or Chicago or upstate New York (or insert your own northern climate here), but setting her at my laptop, I'm at 6,500 AGL. We get enough winter to need the heat even in the southern Rockies.

Bob
 
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