Any tips for flying an 8?

A friend has offered to let me fly his 8. Before I go up for a checkout, I wanted to see if anyone here has any general tips for me on flying them. I have couple of hours in a -6 and -4, but that was a long time ago. I fly a Grumman Traveler and a Pietenpol regularly. I'm approaching 800 hours total time, probably 500 of those hours are tailwheel. The big differences I'm expecting with the -8 are much lower drag than the antiques I'm used to, higher landing and takeoff speeds and much better overall responsiveness.

So what general tips do you have for a guy getting in an -8 for the first time (i.e., three point or wheel land it? recommended speeds? Any bad habits to be aware of?)? This one has an O-360 with a fixed prop.

Thanks!

Don't use a lot of rudder!

I had an experienced TW pilot who had never flown an RV before almost put us in some trees on the right side of a 100' wide grass strip.

The rudder is always effective in an RV, there is no dead zone like on many high wing TW aircraft.

If you get it slow, it will sink like a Cherokee with the Hershey bar wing. Just fly it by the numbers the owner tells you and you won't have any problems.

Report back with your impressions.

Wheel land it solo.

You can three-point one pretty easily with someone in the back seat, but I still like to wheel land it even when carrying a passenger.

This coming from a noob at flying tailwheel RVs. I only have 25 hours in an RV-4 and 50 in an RV-8, and only about 100 total tailwheel hours. And about 800 in a Cherokee

Like Bill R said, if you let it get too slow, it'll sink like a brick, and can fall out of the flare and bounce if you're not careful with the airspeed. In the RV-8 in my avatar, I like to keep about 85 MPH (~73-74 kts) down final and then fly it onto the runway with a little bit of power to arrest the sink. Yeah, I eat up a little bit more runway but it helps me avoid inducing a bounce on touchdown.

Flying the RV-8

There is certainly a lot of good information on the VAF forum, but to fly a new airplane properly requires a proper checkout. It is more than just stick and rudder skills that make for a successful flight. You will need a good cockpit and systems checkout to be fully aware of how everything works in the airplane, because each airplane is different. As a minimum, you should consult the guidance of an EAA Flight Advisor, who will assess the airplanes you have already flown along with the RV-8. This is the same "differences training" you would do going from a B767 to a B777, for example. Then get the proper stick time in an similarly powered RV, with a competent instructor. Everyone here wants you to be good to go, not just hanging on for the ride. Fly safe!

I can tell you what I did when I bought my RV8. I had 800 hrs in RV6A and 100 hrs tailwheel (Cub, Taylorcraft, Champ) I enlisted the aid of a friend who is a CFI and owns a RV7. For two hours we shot landings with me in the right seat (throttle in the left hand, stick in the right) He pronounced me ready to solo my new RV8. I did everything he told me to do and had an uneventful first flight. If you want his name send me a private message. Steve

But use the rudder a lot!

N941WR said:

Don't use a lot of rudder!

I had an experienced TW pilot who had never flown an RV before almost put us in some trees on the right side of a 100' wide grass strip.

The rudder is always effective in an RV, there is no dead zone like on many high wing TW aircraft.

If you get it slow, it will sink like a Cherokee with the Hershey bar wing. Just fly it by the numbers the owner tells you and you won't have any problems.

Report back with your impressions.

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Don't use a lot of rudder may be good advice. However, as with any TW aircraft, I would advise "use the rudder a lot" for landing. By that, I refer to the traditional "foot dance" requiring rapid but small applications of rudder to control heading. This is simplistic advice but we must always remember the principle that a "little bit early" is better than "a lot late".

As an old instructor told me back in the sixties, "You gotta keep the airplane pointed the way its going." Two very high time pilots who experienced ground loops in the 8 made the same comment to me, that once the heading passes a certain point no amount of rudder and/or brakes will stop it. That would probably be true of any TW aircraft of course.

The point is that prevention is often the only cure. The best single bit of landing advice that I have continually reminded myself of and have passed along to many students and copilots is to keep your eyes focused on the far end of the runway. This is only a reminder of something we probably all learned early on. That, in my opinion, will go a long way towards solving problems with both heading control and altitude control on landing, whether its a heavy jet or a light sport or anything in between.

I'll close with a stab at humility: Free advice may be worth just what you pay for it!

Good advice here. The only thing I would emphasize is that the -8 is MUCH easier to land solo and I'm very glad that Paul and some others convinced a very reluctant me to first fly it solo. I had a very thorough check-out on the ground and hundreds of hours in my -6, then went out for some manuevering, slow flight, and simulated pattern work up high before returning for the landing. That went fine. I'm still not fully comfortable with a passenger ('cause I haven't flown the -8 often enough).

-8A Not the End of the World Rapture

I'm finishing the final stages of my -8A Phase 1 flyoff. Still in the "Where did this airplane come from?" rapture stage (much more real than the recent end of the world stupidity). Not a lot of expert hints - but treat her like a fighter. Respect her limits, but yank and bank and enjoy yourself. Pay attention to where she really stalls, and be careful of Vne in a steep dive - but explore the rest of the envelope. She will tell you if you're doing something she doesn't like.

Louise Hose said:

I'm still not fully comfortable with a passenger.

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Junior will solve that issue......................

Steve...

Terry's advice is sound, but might be "impractical".

500TW hours sounds good to me, and if you approach the RV as you are, doubt you'll have any issues. I'll confine my comments to RV(-8) specific, rather than general airmanship (weather / runway length).

Don't use a lot of rudder!

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Take a look at the rudder chains / link arrangement - they vary by owner choice / preference. I am used to / prefer "loose" chains - and as a guide someone showed me, the rudder can move about 1/2 a horn width each way before the chain comes taut. This will be less "squirrly" in steering than tight chains / a solid link which will require more "finesse".

As with most TW aircraft, grass is preferably for your first few landings. Lots of it over here, seems somewhat rarer "over there".

Wheel land it solo.

You can three-point one pretty easily with someone in the back sea

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Could not agree more Do your W&B, if the CG is fwd of 80", it will not be "pleasant" to fly (all relative!). If you're not doing aeros etc., but flying solo, put 30-50lbs in the rear baggage area.

First few landings, esp with a 3 blade VP Prop, do not "cut power" until you're down.

Short Finals ensure "your feet are up" (covering the brakes) in case a "jab or 2" needed.

Recommend flapless takeoff for the first few goes to ensure you don't bust the limit speed. Later either climb steeply, or raise them immediately you're airborne.

At height, 75% power, lower nose about 10degrees, and just watch the ASI wind up. Best do it intentionally

Brief for engine out, we use 80K, absolute minimum of 75K with flap for glide. It will glide slower than that, but as you flare, you will lose all speed, and sink like a stone

Andy

As others have said, lots of good advice here, but I am going to echo Terry's advice that you get some formal RV checkout time. if you had lots of hours in other tail dragger RV's, I'd give you much of the "lessons learned" here in this thread and say "go fly", but there are quite a few accidents on record from folks who explored the edges of the RV envelope on their own for the first time and came to grief. Respect the fact that it is still an airplane, and you're going pretty fast close to the hard object known as the earth.

On landings and CG - some said "Wheel Land it Solo, you can three-point one pretty easily with someone in the back seat". Be very careful with this - it will three-point almost TOO easily with someone in the back seat. I have heard many, many stories from low-time -8 pilots who made their first aft-CG landings and ended up with a VERY scary tail-strike "landing". At slow speeds with an aft CG, the stick force gradient is zero to negative, and the nose will rise pretty much on its own. I strongly prefer a tail-low wheel landing in 90% of the cases, definitely with a passenger. I use a three-point when the runway is short and I have to come in over trees. if I have to do that with a passenger, I have to be 100% on my game. Slow with an aft CG is not (in my experience) a good place to be with an -8.

Paul

Say YES to Transition Training...

I'm in complete agreement with Terry and Paul on this one. There is no substitute for Transition Training.

Also please review some of the Van's Safety Corner missives on the Van's Aircraft Facebook account for further thought provoking information. (No, you don't have to sign up for FB to see these articles...)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Vans-Aircraft-Inc/121827541221519

And at the least, read Chapter 15 of the RV-8/8A Construction Manual on Final Inspection & Flight Testing. This will give you some additional thought provoking information on how this animal behaves. They are great airplanes, but like learning any new system, education is power...

Wow, thanks for the great responses, I didn't expect this many. I will definitely be spending some time with someone else before just jumping in, hopefully a couple of hours at least. It is great to have some things to think about before-hand, which is what you guys have given me. I really appreciate it. I will let you know my thoughts when it does happen, although it probably won't be extremely soon. Thanks again!

An -8 will be a dramatic change from a Pietenpol! I'm looking forward to it.