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-   -   New type fire extinguisher? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=202953)

reak 01-18-2022 11:22 AM

New type fire extinguisher?
 
Does anybody know how this fire extinguisher works (or doesn’t) or have any real world data? Opinions?
https://elementfire.com/

1001001 01-18-2022 11:43 AM

I looked at their FAQ section, which pointed me here: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/30...67154874779486

If you used one of these around aluminum, you'd probably need to do a very thorough cleaning to neutralize and remove all of the potassium hydroxide (which is the byproduct of the action of the extinguisher). It is highly corrosive to aluminum.

So, it might be of use in flight, but I'd not want to use it for incidental fires on the ground--it would probably end in a total loss of the airframe.

rockwoodrv9 01-18-2022 12:51 PM

I just watched the video and it is impressive. Im not sure you could see out of the canopy because it would fill up but it looks like it could be pretty good on a fire. If I have a fire in flight I do not care about the airframe. Agree an on ground fire you should pick a different extinguisher but I would use anything I had to get on the ground. Im going to order one now.

Mel 01-18-2022 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9 (Post 1582957)
I just watched the video and it is impressive. Im not sure you could see out of the canopy because it would fill up but it looks like it could be pretty good on a fire. If I have a fire in flight I do not care about the airframe. Agree an on ground fire you should pick a different extinguisher but I would use anything I had to get on the ground. Im going to order one now.

I have 6. Each vehicle, kitchen, shop, and airplane!

wawrzynskivp 01-18-2022 04:07 PM

Cockpit IMC
 
Seeing a demo of that extinguisher in our somewhat enclosed environment would help with the decision making. Looks like you buy a solid 60 seconds of some pretty solid discharge.

Anyone have input on how quickly the air exchange from the vents would allow one to see the instruments or even outside?

I was once IMC in the cockpit of a T-2 with an air conditioning failure, and for a brief and scary period of time couldn't effectively see anything.

wirejock 01-18-2022 04:57 PM

Extinguisher
 
Wow! Very cool.

abwaldal@gmail.com 01-18-2022 05:14 PM

Elements
 
These are not new to me. I have 9 of them. Two hangar, one each plane, race cars, kitchen shop. and a couple under my desk.
You have to recharge anything else if you can find anybody to do it.
They put out fires.
The powder settles to the bottom of the old style ABC's, and needs to be knocked loose from time to time. And don't get me started on aluminum corrosion and ruined electrical parts with those. Just kiss the plane good by.
I've been in fires and used the old ABC. They don't last very long if they work
How many people bother to get theirs serviced?
NONE probably. Or I should say very few.
Take a day and follow a service tech around that works on fire extinguishers.
It will be a real eye opener.
I had a friend that did exactly that. He passed away.
NO servicing of an Element and they last a long time.
Yes I still have a couple red ones sitting here and there but will more than likely use my Element first.
My three cents worth. Art

mulde35d 01-18-2022 07:39 PM

After watching there videos I got one for the boat specifically because it would be less corrosive than the ABC type “or so the advertisement states”. If any chemists care to chime in on just how corrosive the element extinguisher could be to aluminum I know I would be interested. Otherwise, will likely stick with the really expensive but proven halon extinguishers for the cockpit.

1001001 01-18-2022 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulde35d (Post 1583055)
After watching there videos I got one for the boat specifically because it would be less corrosive than the ABC type “or so the advertisement states”. If any chemists care to chime in on just how corrosive the element extinguisher could be to aluminum I know I would be interested. Otherwise, will likely stick with the really expensive but proven halon extinguishers for the cockpit.

I am a chemical engineer by training and in my day job. I have experienced directly the effects of aluminum corrosion by KOH (potassium hydroxide) and NaOH (sodium hydroxide, or lye). Take it from me, it is not something you want around your airplane.

Or don't take it from me, have a look here: https://www.calpaclab.com/aluminum-c...ibility-chart/

KOH is listed as "D-Severe Effect."

It is also pretty hygroscopic, so it will pick up moisture readily from the atmosphere, and that will further exacerbate the corrosion.

All that to say, if it puts out an emergency fire in flight and lets you get on the ground, that's great. But be prepared for an incredible clean-up and probably loss of the airframe to corrosion. As I said before, I wouldn't use it as a day-to-day extinguisher for non-emergency fires on the ground.

Ironflight 01-18-2022 11:46 PM

So here’s the thing….once you light it off, its going to keep putting out fog until it is finished - even if you put the fire out right away. It’ll just keep fogging up the cockpit, and there’s nothing you can do about it. And the cockpit is a very enclosed space - unlike the back yard where the video was being shot.

In flight, in the cockpit, your fire extinguisher is primarily to put out electrical fires. On the ground, outside the airplane, you are more likely to be working on a fuel fire under the cowling. Fore the cockpit case, nothing I have ever used is efficient and quick as Halon - and you can use it in short bursts, stopping when the fire is out.

On the ground, if you have a fuel fed fire, you need a large volume of extinguishing agent that will shoot in through a cowl opening and then flood the space - Halon, Dry Chem (call your insurance agent - they own the airplane now), CO2 - they are all proven to work.

Yup - this option is a lot cheaper than a Halon extinguisher, but I just filled up my RV-8 after a two hour trip and spent over $100 on Avgas….so how exorbitant is that extinguisher in “airplane money”…really? And Halon extinguishers are easily maintained and filled by a competent shop - completely different than the average Dry Chem you will find everywhere.

I spent a career operating manned spacecraft, and Halon was the only thing we used because, well - you can’t open a window. And I spent 25 years as a volunteer firefighter and firefighting instructor. I’ve discharged countless fire extinguishers of all types. For my airplanes, Halon is the only thing I carry in the cockpit - it works, it won’t kill you, and it won’t blind you.

Paul


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