[Tim 8-A]

I currently have old Prinston Puck sytle sender and need to replace them, I am looking at the Cies senders (1 per tank).
Do they use the same size screw as factory?
How many gallons will be unreadable with a single sender?
Has anyone installed the sender while attached to the wing or should I remove the tank?
Welcome commits on if its worth the mod to go with 2 per tank.
TIA

 

[BobTurner]

How many gallons will be unreadable with a single sender?

I have stock Vans’ senders, at the inboard end of standard 30 gal tanks. When full, I cannot ‘see’ the top 5 gal/tank. e.g., the gauges read 25/25. Anything less, they’re accurate (calibrated via efis). Between looking into the tanks before takeoff, and a fuel flow rate gauge, I see no need for any additional senders. If I had extended range tanks, I might reconsider this.
As to removal, I’d give it a try in situ before pulling the tank.

 

[Richard Connell]

I think it’s up to you whether 2 senders per tank is worth it.
I flew for around 100h with 1 sender in standard tanks and found it mildly irritating having come from a 7 which was spot on all the time. As Bob says, between dipping and an accurate flow meter it’s hard to get into trouble.
I doubt I’d have gone to the trouble of second senders if I’d stayed with the standard tanks. When I built my ER I chose to add a second sender.
I’d also be unenthusiastic about removing a tank on a painted plane too.

 

[FabricGATOR]

Love the CIES senders. I don't know what to tell you as far as your installation but I can tell you who is a fountain of knowledge... the guy who answers the phone at CIES (541) 977-1043.

It was refreshing to deal with a company that is knowledgeable and generous with the information.

It was CIES tech support who knew more about the JPI 930 than trying to get anyone on the phone at JP Instruments... A++

 

[brettwmyers]

They have the same hole pattern but you need to upsize the holes (from an 8 to a 10, I believe).

 

[lonkelm]

They have the same hole pattern but you need to upsize the holes (from an 8 to a 10, I believe).

sounds right. I didn't retro but have these sensors going in from the original build. I just installed the next size up nutplates on my build. I had to add in holes for the 2nd sender (did 2/tank)

 

[Shays]

I put 2 cies per side with the er tanks, that gives me a full read from full to empty. What I can say in general about the cies sensors is that after speaking with the engineers at cies I understood that the accuracy of the sensor is 1/100th of a gallon, much more accurate than the screen can display.

I enjoy the full thank read a lot, no guessing. That's what I am used to from the military world.

 

[brettwmyers]

sounds right. I didn't retro but have these sensors going in from the original build. I just installed the next size up nutplates on my build. I had to add in holes for the 2nd sender (did 2/tank)

I used nutrings, they're way better.

 

[lonkelm]

I used nutrings, they're way better.

can you point me to what you used? why are they better?

 

[brettwmyers]

can you point me to what you used? why are they better?

Sorry for the delayed response: I bought the nutrings at https://www.airpowerinc.com/1716008-1. They allow for a good seal inside the tank, so you can remove the sender without problems. I have a video where you can see them here (I start discussing them at about 6:12, you can see them installed later in the video):

.

 

[Walt]

You can also use NAS1474A08 nut plates.

 

[Taltruda]

Sorry for the delayed response: I bought the nutrings at https://www.airpowerinc.com/1716008-1. They allow for a good seal inside the tank, so you can remove the sender without problems. I have a video where you can see them here (I start discussing them at about 6:12, you can see them installed later in the video):

.

Are they just glues into position with sealant? Or are they also retained with 426 rivets?

 

[bertschb]

...I bought the nutrings at https://www.airpowerinc.com/1716008-1.

CiES sells a nutring kit for $330 (yes, expensive just like their senders). How do these look compared to the Cessna nutrings that AirPowerInc sells?

 

[Taltruda]

$330? Is that a pair or each? Are they made of gold? That’s crazy..I just ordered 4 nut rings from AirPower for less than half of that for the fear that AirPower will see this and up their prices!!

 

[bertschb]

$330? Is that a pair or each?

Just heard back from CiES. $330 is for two. Yikes. Gonna order the AirPower nutrings instead.

 

[brettwmyers]

Just heard back from CiES. $330 is for two. Yikes. Gonna order the AirPower nutrings instead.

Those look really, really nice, but... there is no conceivable advantage that they could possibly have over the other ones and you're never going to see them (hopefully) ever again after you close the tanks. Note that the other nutrings are secured with 5/8 10-24 hex screws, and this requires the standard holes to be enlarge (I bet the CiES ones are similar). I bought stainless steel screws from Grainger, it's kind of an odd size and I couldn't find them elsewhere.

 

[bertschb]

Note that the other nutrings are secured with 5/8 10-24 hex screws, ...I bought stainless steel screws from Grainger...

That's great information. Are these the screws you used?

!

 

[Aerodon]

Clickbond make a sealed unit for fuel tank bays

 

[Taltruda]

That's great information. Are these the screws you used?

!View attachment 64019

I’m not a fan of stainless screws.. stainless are brittle and seem to cause the alumInum to corrode around it. Ever snap a stainless screw? They are hard but seem to break without warning. I would look for cad plated and cut them down if I had to, even thought that cuts though the cad plating at the end.

 

[Taltruda]

Clickbond make a sealed unit for fuel tank bays

Walt also posted a solution of sealed nutplates that were cheap.. $11 for a bag of 10 I think? The benefit of these rings though is the rigidity of the whole thing. It won’t “pillow” around the screws. Probably both work (and have)

 

[brettwmyers]

I’m not a fan of stainless screws.. stainless are brittle and seem to cause the alumInum to corrode around it. Ever snap a stainless screw? They are hard but seem to break without warning. I would look for cad plated and cut them down if I had to, even thought that cuts though the cad plating at the end.

I was thinking about that. One of the nice things about the nutring is you can change the screws without any issues.

 

[brettwmyers]

That's great information. Are these the screws you used?

!View attachment 64019

I said "hex head," but I meant "socket head." These are the ones I bought:

https://www.grainger.com/product/Socket-Head-Cap-Screw-10-24-6XA94?searchQuery=sscs0100063cp&searchBar=true&xRefMatch=true&tier=Tier+8

 

[bertschb]

Just received my CiES senders today. They are individually labeled and color coded for specific positions in the tanks. I have no idea how to install or wire them but I'll cross that bridge when I get there later this summer when I build my Sky Designs ER fuel tanks. They are nice looking but there 'aint much there for 600 bucks!

 

[DerekS]

When you get there make sure you get the hole pattern right particularly on the "top" sensor. They are keyed so they only go in one way. This means you can't flip them if you need it to read high to low rather than low to high and have already drilled the holes.

If memory serves the color indicates which direction is high frequency vs low.

Derek

 

[rvsxer]

When you get there make sure you get the hole pattern right particularly on the "top" sensor. They are keyed so they only go in one way. This means you can't flip them if you need it to read high to low rather than low to high and have already drilled the holes.

If memory serves the color indicates which direction is high frequency vs low.

Derek

I installed a set of these in a Skymaster (!) last year. Tech data and support was great. Worked very well, too.

 

[bertschb]

When you get there make sure you get the hole pattern right particularly on the "top" sensor. They are keyed so they only go in one way.

Thanks Derek. I did test fit the senders with the nut rings mentioned by Bret in post #10. At first I thought I got the wrong nutrings because the holes didn't line up. I then rotated the nutring and sure enough, the holes eventually lined up!

 

[Phil Sprang]

I just put the aft baffle on my right side ER tank this afternoon.

In preparation for the tank build I set up a little test rig pictures. If you have a volt meter that measures frequency, and input 12 volts DC, you can see the increase in frequency. I highly recommend that before you install them.



When correctly installed, this little roll pin should be on the right hand side, as you look at the sender when installed. Ie, looking at the inboard rib, towards the wingtip, that pin should be on the right side when the sender is installed.