rockwoodrv9

rockwoodrv9

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My wife and I are going to fly from Mason MI - KTEW to Canandaiga NY - IUA on Wednesday. It is an hour less to fly over Canada than dropping around the lake south of Cleveland but flying over Canada with basic is a risk if I have to land.

My questions are -
1. If I have to land because of emergency do I need to get a pilot that has the proper medical to fly the plane back to USA?
2. I believe I have to file a flight plan to cross into Canadian airspace or is Flight Following enough?
3. The difference is about 45 minutes. Is it worth the risk going over Canada?

Th airspace around the south of the lake are crowded and tricky too, so each have risk. If anyone has flown this route I would be interested in your opinions. Thanks
 
My opinion only - when I used to fly in and out of Canada routinely years ago, you were supposed to have a filed flight plan, even when VFR. I’m not sure it’s still that way. If you can go non stop without a planned stop in Canada, I would just do it. However……. having posted it on the WW web, you might want to reconsider. If you were to have an emergency and need to land north of our border, the - “it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission” mantra may apply. Having thrown yourself under the bus with this question, I think you should just take the scenic route.
 
According to "The Rules", you can't fly in Canadian airspace at all with Basic Med, including overflights. Not sure how they'd catch you (ADS-B or whatever), but I'm pretty confident that if you did have to make an uplanned landing in Canada, your subsequent departure with your airplane would be a lot more complicated than just finding a pilot to fly it back. Your risk-tolerance level would play a big part in your decision.
 
MacCool said:
According to "The Rules", you can't fly in Canadian airspace at all with Basic Med, including overflights. Not sure how they'd catch you (ADS-B or whatever), but I'm pretty confident that if you did have to make an uplanned landing in Canada, your subsequent departure with your airplane would be a lot more complicated than just finding a pilot to fly it back. Your risk-tolerance level would play a big part in your decision.
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The odds of an emergency landing are slim. What you have to be careful of is the TC guys in their helicopters pulling up along side you wanting to do an enroute paper work check.
 
rsultzbach said:
Stay in the US at this time. The feds and the Canadians are working on Basic Med coming to Canada. Patience.
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Negotiations for reciprocity between Basic Med in the US and Class 4 medical in Canada have been ongoing since 2017 when Basic Med first came into existence. Canada‘s analogous Class 4 medical has been around since 1998. I would submit that those negotiations are not any closer to conclusion now than they were then.
 
rsultzbach said:
Stay in the US at this time. The feds and the Canadians are working on Basic Med coming to Canada. Patience.
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They have been working on it for over 5 years. When I needed to have my Sling 2 serviced I’d fly from NYS to MI, several times the first year, as they were the authorized factory dealer/build center. I toyed with the Canadian route, as it was almost 2 hours shorter, but ultimately decided against it, Basic Med here also. In my case landing wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me, but I fly armed, so, an absolute No No for me, god forbid I had to land in Canada. Two hours on autopilot was a no brainer.
 
One point that is worth remembering. If you fly on BasicMed over Canada, you aren't only violating Canadian regs. Whether or not the Canadians catch you, and whether or not you have to land in Canada, etc., you are also violating US regs, which specifically state that BasicMed gives you no privileges outside of the U.S.

As I read the regulatory regime, if the FAA discovered that you flew over Canada under BasicMed, they would consider you guilty of (at least) flying an aircraft without the required medical certificate.

14 CFR 61.113(i)(2)(ii).
 
Yes an international Flight Plan is required.
Unknown, but probably an EAPIS would have to filed too. That’s involving FAA, CBP, & Homeland Security.
Than there is Canadian Customs & Transport Canada. If they get involved, you can be sure that they refer it all back to those US agencies.
So, involving 2 national jurisdictions , undeclared border crossing, illegal entry, undeclared immigration requirements etc. having Basic Med would be the least of your worries.
Is 45 min. worth it?
 
Dugaru said:
One point that is worth remembering. If you fly on BasicMed over Canada, you aren't only violating Canadian regs. Whether or not the Canadians catch you, and whether or not you have to land in Canada, etc., you are also violating US regs, which specifically state that BasicMed gives you no privileges outside of the U.S.

As I read the regulatory regime, if the FAA discovered that you flew over Canada under BasicMed, they would consider you guilty of (at least) flying an aircraft without the required medical certificate.

14 CFR 61.113(i)(2)(ii).
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Not totally correct. You can fly to Mexico and the Bahamas
 
Tooch said:
Not totally correct. You can fly to Mexico and the Bahamas
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The exact phrasing from the FAR is:
"The flight, including each portion of the flight, is not carried out— Outside the United States unless authorized by the country in which the flight is conducted"

So Dugaru's main point is true: if you fly over Canada on BasicMed, you aren't just violating Canadian regs, you're violating the FARs too.

(There's similar phrasing for sport privileges, which don't allow flying "Outside the United States, unless you have prior authorization from the country in which you seek to operate.")
 
Im just going to go around Cleveland and not worry about it. It isnt worth being in the news for an extra 45 minutes of flying! The airspace is much more crowded around Cleveland so it isnt without risk but flying along the coast would be fun too.
 
rockwoodrv9 said:
Im just going to go around Cleveland and not worry about it. It isnt worth being in the news for an extra 45 minutes of flying! The airspace is much more crowded around Cleveland so it isnt without risk but flying along the coast would be fun too.
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If it were me flying that route, I'd get flight following and plan to go right through the Cleveland bravo along the south shore of Lake Erie. I've been through that area many times and been given a bravo clearance every single time. Super easy.
 
Tooch said:
Not totally correct. You can fly to Mexico and the Bahamas
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I did not think it necessary to mention that you can legally fly on BasicMed in... countries that recognize BasicMed, but point taken.
 
rockwoodrv9 said:
Im just going to go around Cleveland and not worry about it. It isnt worth being in the news for an extra 45 minutes of flying! The airspace is much more crowded around Cleveland so it isnt without risk but flying along the coast would be fun too.
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My route to Oshkosh takes me right over Cleveland along the lake. It's a beautiful flight with the islands you fly over in Lake Erie. I go over Bravo and always on flight following. No problems!!
 
rockwoodrv9 said:
Im just going to go around Cleveland and not worry about it. It isnt worth being in the news for an extra 45 minutes of flying! The airspace is much more crowded around Cleveland so it isnt without risk but flying along the coast would be fun too.
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This of course is the correct answer. Not only is the overflight illegal but at this point you would be "knowingly" violating the rules. I applaud your decision.

I fly out of KITH at the south end of Cayuga Lake. It's exceptionally beautiful up here right now. The foliage is starting to pop. And Canandaigua is a great place to visit.

As to the additional duration of the flight. For me, the reason I own an aircraft, is to fly said aircraft. I fly down to the Virginia Beach area and in doing so I have had to make many flight time additions to dodge the pop up TFR's around DC , the SFRA, etc..... Having to fly longer always seems like a bonus to me. I feel like I don't get to fly enough as it is.

Enjoy your trip !!
 
MarkCFI said:
This of course is the correct answer. Not only is the overflight illegal but at this point you would be "knowingly" violating the rules. I applaud your decision.

I fly out of KITH at the south end of Cayuga Lake. It's exceptionally beautiful up here right now. The foliage is starting to pop. And Canandaigua is a great place to visit.

As to the additional duration of the flight. For me, the reason I own an aircraft, is to fly said aircraft. I fly down to the Virginia Beach area and in doing so I have had to make many flight time additions to dodge the pop up TFR's around DC , the SFRA, etc..... Having to fly longer always seems like a bonus to me. I feel like I don't get to fly enough as it is.

Enjoy your trip !!
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Thanks Mark.
Im going KTEW ADG 5A1 1G5 7G8 IUA on the way over and I want to go to LNN on the way back so probably fly under class B at Cleveland along the coast if things are not too busy.
 
No need to avoid the Cleveland class B - they appreciate the traffic. Every time I fly that way and contact them it is ‘cleared into the class B, what is your request?’ Same with Pittsburgh if you ever head that way.
 
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