kirkbauer

Active Member
I'm still in the very early stages of figuring out how I want to do the electrical system in my future RV-10. This will be for IFR cross-country flying with the family, so I want plenty of redundancy. And not just safety-of-flight redundancy, but also "you don't have to cancel your trip" redundancy. For this reason, I'm almost certainly going with 2x alternators and 2x batteries, plus a G5 with its own battery. The engine will have dual pMags and therefore the engine will not be electrically dependent.

I'm currently debating between two core architectures. As an engineer, I am trying to balance between over-engineering something and keeping it simple for a future partner in the airplane. Am I missing any pros or cons or have I missed anything else obvious here? There are some weight and cost differences but from what I can tell neither of those are substantial.

Option A: TCW IBBS

In this architecture, I would have one main electrical bus with the main battery and two alternators (one running at a time). The IBBS would charge from the main bus and it would power my essential bus. Three switches: master, backup, and alt1/2.

Pros: simple and seems pretty standard. Very little (if any) electrical design required (e.g. diodes, etc).
Cons: limited backup power will require a pretty streamlined essential bus, catastrophic failure of the IBBS could cause essential bus to fail (but with dual power inputs to most Garmin avionics that may not be an issue?), issue with primary battery would prevent starting the engine

Option B1: Two separate systems

In this architecture, I would divide the entire electrical system into two parts with two full batteries. Bus 1 would have Bat 1+Alt 1 and roughly half of the other items. Bus 2 would have Bat 2+Alt 2 and the other half of the items. The busses would be completely separate. Would be able to safely complete flight with either bus, although with some limitations. For example, one G3X Touch screen on each bus, on ADAHRS on each bus, one radio on each bus, one pMag on each bus, etc. Four switches: Battery 1, Battery 2, Alternator 1, Alternator 2.

Pros: a catastrophic failure (high voltage, short to ground) on one bus should not affect the other bus, more reserve power with two full batteries.
Cons: if one battery fails you'll lose some components (e.g. flaps might only be on Bus 1 and the GPS Navigator might only be on Bus 2), less standard setup

Option B2: Two separate systems w/ crossover

This is exactly the same as Option B1, but now there is a contactor that can connect Bus 1 and Bus 2. This contactor is normally open so the busses are normally separate just like in Option B1. But you can flip a switch and connect the two busses together (you'd need to figure out a way to make sure both alternators don't keep running).

Pros: could allow the use of both batteries to start the engine (if one battery is low or dead or if it is really cold outside), could allow full normal flight to continue even if one battery and/or alternator is dead
Cons: even more complex and non-standard, needs a fifth switch for "crossover", and possibly additional failure modes that might make things less redundant

For the last con above, my concern is when/how you would use such a crossover switch. If one of your busses goes bad during flight, it could be for a variety of reasons: dead battery, short to ground, overvoltage, etc. The only time crossing over would be helpful would be for a dead battery (presumably caused by a bad alternator). But what if there was overvoltage or as short to ground in the bad bus? If you cross the busses together, now you possibly take out the other bus as well.
 
As you work through the options, consider that the most reliable components in your power distribution design are the batteries. This assumes the batteries are well maintained and not abused.

The problem starts when you have a failure that prevents power getting from your battery(s) to where you need it. One solution is to add a plethora of backup batteries. My approach is to have multiple backup modes without adding any backup batteries. This boils down to feeding avionics directly from the battery(s) (as in between the master solenoid and the battery). This is not hard as most modern panels do not draw much power so switches or small 30amp or so relays do the Job. Now overlay some thoughtful aspects like separate avionics power feed for each side of the panel (as in EFIS #1/Comm#1, EFIS #2/ Comm #2, etc.) and you greatly eliminate pilot workload when stuff goes south.

While this approach does not call for a second alternator for safety of flight, I support adding a standby alternator. This is based on:
- Alternator failure is the most probable risk we have but the outcome (assuming you did not launch with dead battery(s)) a non-event. Depending on your ship battery(s) capacity you have time to safely land the plane.
- The backup alternator is my “get home” card as I do mostly long cross country flying. My plane draws ~15amps (assuming the batteries are charged) so the 30amp MonkWokz is a perfect solution. The first RV-10 I installed the nice 20amp B&C and it worked well.

I’ve seen dead backup batteries in RVs (including ship power dependent EI installs) as some do not understand their limitations. Shoot fire I know of one RV with two alternators and 4+ backup batteries that landed twice with a dark panel. Why not have two healthy ship batteries that are there to start your engine and have backup modes to keep the panel up when you have a problem? The weight difference in these approaches is in the grass.

Carl
 
I'm using option A. Staying with the KISS principle I use fuses for circuit protection, an element you didn't discuss. Many great sealed panels available including those with spaces for relays for those high draw items like pitot heat and boost pump. Spruce & Stein sell them but a larger variety of choices through an electrical supply house like Newark or Mouser.

B&C main alternator (60a) with a Monkworkz standby alt (30a).

Single main battery is adequate when using IBBS. Think of the IBBS items as the essential or emergency bus since they receive power through the Garmin second power source. I use two of those with diode fuses powering GTN, GTX & GTR since these have only one power input. The backup (IBBS) batteries main job is to keep power to the LRU's during engine start when/if bus power drops below 10v. In addition, I use the 'keep alive' circuit of the GAD 27 for items not covered with the IBBS. This eliminates the need for an avionics bus. Secondarily, and hopefully never, the IBBS can power items if main and standby alt fail and you wish to preserve the main battery for landing.

Total electrical failure? G5 w/ it's own 4 hr battery and an ipad plus an engine that's electrically independent.
 
One thing to note, the IBBS solutions typically used out there (at least that I'm aware of) don't have the capacity to run anything more than the EFIS for any good duration. So don't expect to run your radios or navigator using one of these.

Also, a G5 can have its own 4 hour backup battery, so its a really good fallback.
 
Option A: TCW IBBS
Cons
: limited backup power will require a pretty streamlined essential bus, catastrophic failure of the IBBS could cause essential bus to fail (but with dual power inputs to most Garmin avionics that may not be an issue?), issue with primary battery would prevent starting the engine
I run this setup in my Glasair. I can't think of a scenario that the IBBS could do that the dual input Garmin's can't handle.



Option B2: Two separate systems w/ crossover

This is exactly the same as Option B1, but now there is a contactor that can connect Bus 1 and Bus 2. This contactor is normally open so the busses are normally separate just like in Option B1. But you can flip a switch and connect the two busses together (you'd need to figure out a way to make sure both alternators don't keep running).
I run this in the -10. Generally when you have a two alternator setup, you will set the regulator on the smaller one to a few tenths of a volt less than the primary. This will ensure if they are both live, the second alternator won't try to provide power, since the bus voltage is above its set point. You can do this in either single or dual bus setups.

With the switch closed configuration you have just transformed your system into dual alternator, Big battery(two in parallel) system. To your point, since you can fly nicely on either side of the electrical system there are not a lot of scenarios I can think of where I would be switching it in the air. OTOH it does open up a number of options for a VFR flight home, Hot Start challenges etc.
 
I have built a dual/dual system IAW the Froehlich church of redundancy and symmetry. The one thing I might have done differently; would strongly consider good quality switches (with some rating margin) versus relays for avionics bus control. This would be IAW the gospel according to Walt. An avionics bus doesn’t pull that many amps.

I’m a bigger proponent of backup systems than dedicated BU batteries but there’s lots of safe ways to get it done. Whichever way you go, just fully understand your system and related procedures. Best of luck.
 

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One thing to note, the IBBS solutions typically used out there (at least that I'm aware of) don't have the capacity to run anything more than the EFIS for any good duration. So don't expect to run your radios or navigator using one of these.

Also, a G5 can have its own 4 hour backup battery, so its a really good fallback.
George, the 6Ah IBBS has a rating of 8A continuous, 12A peak (30 seconds). They publish a schematic to wire in a Garmin GTN, GDU 460 PFD, GEA engine analyzer and GSU-25 AHRS. That ends up being just under 6A and the unit is rated at 55 minutes (to 10V) at 6A.
 
George, the 6Ah IBBS has a rating of 8A continuous, 12A peak (30 seconds). They publish a schematic to wire in a Garmin GTN, GDU 460 PFD, GEA engine analyzer and GSU-25 AHRS. That ends up being just under 6A and the unit is rated at 55 minutes (to 10V) at 6A.
That's how we did ours as well.

-G