ChuckGant

Well Known Member
Looking for input on the looks of these exhaust valves. They are from a Lycoming O-360. Really curious about the deposits and wonder if there is anything to be concerned about.
Thanks,
Chuck
 

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Looking for input on the looks of these exhaust valves. They are from a Lycoming O-360. Really curious about the deposits and wonder if there is anything to be concerned about.
Thanks,
Chuck
#3 at your red 3. See the edge, darken, could be hotter in that location? Other than lack of likeness to each other, they seem symmetrical in the patterns on all. Guessing you run rich of peak . I run UL 93 , 99% of time, so this comment is based on how mine look no lead. My amateur analysis , butI have looked at a lot borescope pictures. Here is my #3 recently, with black spot starting too. I lapped in place 10 hours ago, no look since.
 

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Looking for input on the looks of these exhaust valves. They are from a Lycoming O-360. Really curious about the deposits and wonder if there is anything to be concerned about.
Thanks,
Chuck
They all have the expected 'burned pizza' look except for the 4th photo. Interesting central deposit! I would take another picture of #3 with the valve open to see what the valve and seat face look like at that darker spot.
 
Other than they are ugly I really see no problem if your compressions are good. You must be burning a lot of fuel to get them to look like that. Mine are nice tan with a darker center and a real pizza pie look. Almost ready to eat. Ha Ha Ha.
My luck varies FIXIT
 
9398 (4) looks like it is way to hot but it is even - - might not stay that way long. How are leak-down tests? Do you have an intake leak on this one? Could be sticking and not seating well, allowing it to get hot.

The rest don't have any concerning lack of symmetry, but look like the engine does't get run at cruise often.

Definitely more detailed inspection for #4
 
9398 (4) looks like it is way to hot but it is even - - might not stay that way long. How are leak-down tests? Do you have an intake leak on this one? Could be sticking and not seating well, allowing it to get hot.

The rest don't have any concerning lack of symmetry, but look like the engine does't get run at cruise often.

Definitely more detailed inspection for #4
that is interesting. I saw the same lack of rings and other artifacts on #4 and assumed that valve was running too cold. I wasn't really sure of my analysis, so deleted the message. I assumed the sticking lead or aluminum deposits were due to a cold valve and not a hot one. Also, the lack of heat signature on the seat tipped me that way. Also, if the valve was getting excessively hot, I would have expected there would be some asymmetry where there was some heat transfer to the seat.
 
I've seen my share of valves, but this is a bit out of the ordinary... first of all, they are vastly different one to another, and then they display confusing signatures.
#1 and #4 have what looks like molten lead, and smaller pearls of the same.
#2 has some thick deposits and an irregular burning pattern.

None of them exhibits a real problem, but I'd give a closer look at the seat of #2.

What is your ops style, and how did the plugs look like?
 
Looks pretty good to me. Symmetric is was matters. It's a carbed engine, betting all the cylinders are just a bit off from each other in the fuel/air department resulting in different appearances. Mine have never looked the same and that's with tuned injectors.
 
Well, having looked inside my O-320 yesterday, I am jealous of yours. Mine look like an aerial view of a junkyard. At 900 smoh, I am wondering what the veteran bore scopers think about this valve??????
 

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Well, having looked inside my O-320 yesterday, I am jealous of yours. Mine look like an aerial view of a junkyard. At 900 smoh, I am wondering what the veteran bore scopers think about this valve??????
Funny! Mine look similar to yours but with extra cheese.
 
Lead oxide deposits, due to overly rich mixture. Lean aggressively especially on ground and learn proper leaning procedures in flight.
the deposits won’t hurt the valves, edges look fine. You have concentric deposits indicating the valves are rotating.
 
This engine is on a Cessna 172. It is carbureted, so we can't run lean of peak, but we always lean on the ground and lean as best we can in cruise. The spark plugs look great. No excessive lead or carbon fouling. The engine runs great and has an engine monitor. No significant variance in EGTs or CHTs between cylinders. My main concern was with the deposits on #1 & 4 and the dark spot in the center of #3. I plan to fly it for another 25 hours and borescope it again on the next oil change. Thanks for the inputs.
 
I plan to fly it for another 25 hours and borescope it again on the next oil change

Sounds like a good plan :)

It is carbureted, so we can't run lean of peak
Myth, no relation, or very little, on that. My carbed O-360 runs LOP (on all cylinders) everyday, but the "secret" is in the electronic ignition.
 

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Lead oxide deposits, due to overly rich mixture. Lean aggressively especially on ground and learn proper leaning procedures in flight.
the deposits won’t hurt the valves, edges look fine. You have concentric deposits indicating the valves are rotating.
Mike, are rotating valves a good thing, or a not so good thing?
 
Second question: do the lead deposits around the perimeter of valves tend to stay stuck in place? Some look large enough to really block a valve open if they came unstuck and got swallowed.
Lead oxide deposits, due to overly rich mixture. Lean aggressively especially on ground and learn proper leaning procedures in flight.
the deposits won’t hurt the valves, edges look fine. You have concentric deposits indicating the valves are rotating
 
Second question: do the lead deposits around the perimeter of valves tend to stay stuck in place? Some look large enough to really block a valve open if they came unstuck and got swallowed.

Yeah, remember this ia closeup photo. In your hand it isn’t as lumpy or as big of chunks as it appears.
 
Second question: do the lead deposits around the perimeter of valves tend to stay stuck in place? Some look large enough to really block a valve open if they came unstuck and got swallowed.
Imagine a flat hammer slamming down on a ring. The trauma of a valve closing is such that any deposit from a valve surface or piston surface that gets between a valve and the seat will be gone before you can say Pass the peas! Poof!
 
Imagine a flat hammer slamming down on a ring. The trauma of a valve closing is such that any deposit from a valve surface or piston surface that gets between a valve and the seat will be gone before you can say Pass the peas! Poof!

If your valves are “slamming”, then something is wrong.. valves don’t slam shut. They have opening and closing ramps built into the cam lobes. If they slam, then they’ll pound out the seats, break or bend valvetrain parts, ect…
 
If your valves are “slamming”, then something is wrong.. valves don’t slam shut. They have opening and closing ramps built into the cam lobes. If they slam, then they’ll pound out the seats, break or bend valvetrain parts, ect…
Huh,,,,,,,,,, Maybe "slamming" was the wrong word. Quickly closing so as to get quickly shut before the explosion of the fire wave crosses the piston. It is not a gentle thing but perhaps not slamming. Wrong choice of words but the point: closing of the valves is not going to be hampered by a bit of deposit on the face of the valve. Poof. When you hear a radial engine winding down after shutdown, part of the loud clattering you hear are the valves gently closing. Quickly. 😊
 
Huh,,,,,,,,,, Maybe "slamming" was the wrong word. Quickly closing so as to get quickly shut before the explosion of the fire wave crosses the piston. It is not a gentle thing but perhaps not slamming. Wrong choice of words but the point: closing of the valves is not going to be hampered by a bit of deposit on the face of the valve. Poof. When you hear a radial engine winding down after shutdown, part of the loud clattering you hear are the valves gently closing. Quickly. 😊
Well, these replies are GOLD. The most obvious one that escaped me, was the closeup nature. OF COURSE. What I saw as scary boulder size chunks of lead are now much easier to look at without my credit card twitching in my pocket.
Rotating valves... never even thought that was a thing.
And valves "smooshing" ( my wife's word) the little bits of lead as they come loose (see, I spelled that right) and head for the exhaust pipe... hopefully to rain down on the head of some environmentalist who is trying to take away Alaska aviation gas. Wow, that is a run on sentence....
 
Boroscope pics can make things look really bad, and sometimes alien.

I recently found what I assumed was a small crack on the scope. (Airframe part).
I chucked up a #40 and went to stop drill. The drill end covered up the crack! I tried a #54 drill and then realized if it is a crack, it’s less than 1/16”’ long and trying to stop drill would do more harm than good. On the list for future inspections.
My cylinders look great under the scope, unless you get too close. Then you realize what looks like major scoring doesn’t even penetrate through the cross hatching on 900 plus hour cylinders.
Just normal wear but the scope can sure make things look bad..