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  #11  
Old 01-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Alex44 Alex44 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 57
Default

Craig, for some reason your link doesn't work to your rudder stop pics and cad drawing?


Alex
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2010, 03:00 PM
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sglynn sglynn is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 833
Default Contacting at corners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Scotsman View Post
Installed the internal rudder stop on the top of the bottom hinge, as noted above. Found that, for some reason, the rudder spar was only contacting the stop on the inner corners. Some careful sanding down got full-face contact. But...by my measurements, I'm getting only the minimum 30 degrees of rudder travel (I may leave it thus until flying, rather than continue monkeying with the stop for now). Note that all rod ends are in line, at the spec'd distances, and clearances on the skins (VS-to-rudder) are close but good.

I'm not sure what happened here to cause this, and it's not a huge issue to fix, but I hate not knowing what caused the "issue"...any ideas? (and thought I'd post this for others using the stop to look for...).
I also have installed the internal stop and find that it is hitting the corners against the forward spar of the rudder. I have double checked measurements and they are good. I think the problem is that these internal stops are dependent on the distance the rudder is away from the fin. My rudder is close to the fin. Maybe I should move the rudder aft a little.

I'm working on modifying it now. Any other suggestions or comments about the fit of the internal rudder stop and distance of rudder from fin are appreciated.

UPDATE: I trimmed back the two ends of the internal stop, little by little, checking fit and deflection as I went until I got the stop to contact the rudder spar just as the rudder got to within 1 1/8 inches from the trailing edge of the elevators. Seems like an excellent stop. I do see there is enough flex in the rudder that even with the stop hitting 1 1/8 inches from elevator that I can pull the rudder to hit the elevators.
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Last edited by sglynn : 02-28-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:26 PM
Flying Scotsman Flying Scotsman is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sglynn View Post
I also have installed the internal stop and find that it is hitting the corners against the forward spar of the rudder. I have double checked measurements and they are good. I think the problem is that these internal stops are dependent on the distance the rudder is away from the fin. My rudder is close to the fin. Maybe I should move the rudder aft a little.

I'm working on modifying it now. Any other suggestions or comments about the fit of the internal rudder stop and distance of rudder from fin are appreciated.

UPDATE: I trimmed back the two ends of the internal stop, little by little, checking fit and deflection as I went until I got the stop to contact the rudder spar just as the rudder got to within 1 1/8 inches from the trailing edge of the elevators. Seems like an excellent stop. I do see there is enough flex in the rudder that even with the stop hitting 1 1/8 inches from elevator that I can pull the rudder to hit the elevators.
I think you're right about the angle being dependent on the distance of the rudder spar from the hinge point, as I have mine "close" as well. I did just what you did, trimmed the ends bit by bit until I got full contact, and then I laid the stop on a piece of metal and scribed the extensions of the faces so that I could accurately measure the angle...just at 30 degrees. So I sloooooowly sanded off teeny bits of each face, ensuring full-face contact, until I got to 32-33 degrees (at which point the distance to the elevators is 1-1/2" both sides), which is in the middle of the spec. I'll leave it there until flying, and if I need a little more, I can adjust it then.

I could have moved the rudder further aft, I guess, but I didn't want a larger gap between VS and rudder.

One thing I really like about the internal stop is that if something changes in the future (if I *do* have to move the rudder aft, or want more swing, etc., I can just get another one, redo it and bolt it in place without having to drill out rivets on the side of the fuselage, etc.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:35 PM
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craigvince craigvince is offline
 
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Location: Stockton, CA
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Default If anyone's interested,.....

Here's the current link to the thread where you can buy one for your RV.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=54682
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Maxrate Maxrate is offline
 
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Location: League city, TX
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Craig,

Iv'e seen Pics of other guys that have placed the stop between the rudder hinge instead of on top of it. Is there any advantage to installing it this way.

Thx
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2010, 04:52 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Location: Louisville, Ga
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Default Yep....we did it this way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxrate View Post
Craig,

Iv'e seen Pics of other guys that have placed the stop between the rudder hinge instead of on top of it. Is there any advantage to installing it this way.

Thx
....on our -10. Above the hinge tends to bend the bolts, whereas between the hinge plates, it's rock solid with the bolts in shear,

Best,
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:04 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Location: 08A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigvince View Post
There have been a couple builders (engineers, I suppose) who have determined that there would be stress issues, but I've never heard of any actual problems or data to support their findings.
On the other hand....have you ever seriously reviewed the stress issues?
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:30 AM
MontanaMike MontanaMike is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrison, ID
Posts: 153
Default Internal Rudder Stop on a 6

Some time ago I installed the internal rudder stop purchased from the supermoderater, after having read some of the discussions about stresses that Dan Horton suggests we consider.

Over time it became apparent to me that any supporting data in the negative, I did not want to be associated with personally.

So my solution was to set up my sweet delrin internal internal stop to the proper angles of rudder travel, and then to install the exterior aluminum stops to pick up the load slightly after the delrin did. This prevents the banging that I was concerned about, but cannot overly stress the hinge assemble. It also uses the delrin to its design advantage, so I have not wasted any coin.

I should hopefully see very infrequent full rudder deflection, as was demonstrated to me in my transition training in Vernonia, since brakes are used so often in ground steering, and full deflection on short final indicates the landing is likely beyond my capability this early on. Later, who knows.

I do not care what it looks like, I just can't be worrying what is going on back there where I can't see.

Thanks Dan for bringing it up.

Mike Bauer
RV6 N918MB Awaiting Inspection
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2010, 09:52 AM
Maxrate Maxrate is offline
 
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Location: League city, TX
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Default

Pierre,

What did you use to shim the block to get the perfect fit.

PS: I flew with a guy the other day who was a turbine Air Tractor driver. Looks like a real Cadillac.........

Thanks
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2010, 01:41 PM
DrHolling DrHolling is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
On the other hand....have you ever seriously reviewed the stress issues?
Dan,

When do we expect these stops to come under stress? Only 2 conditions I can imagine are at full deflection either by pilot input or in the case of an unrestricted/unrestrained rudder being blown by the wind. Of these 2 which one are we most concerned with? I believe I have read of rudders being bent by the wind when a rudder gust lock was employed.

Dave
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