What type of rivets in a 10?

[RNB]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I was initially surprised to read the first couple responses, appreciate the precision of saying: only 5% pulled, minimal rivets requiring a second person.

On mentorship, I agree. But I can't just sit back and wait for it to happen or else I will be on their schedule. If I happen to pick one up, great. In the meantime, I will continue reading, have an EAA metalwork class scheduled, plan to meet with Zach in March, and will watch more youtube as I dream.

[Auburntsts]

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t characterize the number of rivets that need a 2nd person to help riveting as minimal. With some ingenuity it can be, I suppose, but that’s the exception not the rule. For example, I know of a builder who backriveted the tailcone without the need for a 2nd person so this is an example of it can be done. However, most builders, myself included, approach major component riveting (tailcone, fuse, etc) as a 2-person job. Generally having help will make the construction go faster. This will become obvious once you start building. You’ll see what’s required and figure out a method that works best for your situation. There’s usually more than one way to skin the cat.

[RNB]

Originally Posted by Auburntsts

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t characterize the number of rivets that need a 2nd person to help riveting as minimal. With some ingenuity it can be, I suppose, but that’s the exception not the rule. For example, I know of a builder who backriveted the tailcone without the need for a 2nd person so this is an example of it can be done. However, most builders, myself included, approach major component riveting (tailcone, fuse, etc) as a 2-person job. Generally having help will make the construction go faster. This will become obvious once you start building. You’ll see what’s required and figure out a method that works best for your situation. There’s usually more than one way to skin the cat.

More than the 40 hours someone specified?

[JBarsness]

Originally Posted by rocketman1988

A word to the wise: Switch hands for the cleco pliers often or you may find yourself with a case of tendonitis. It is not pleasant.

I'm no clecoe plier hero with a firm grip... or tendonitis...

https://www.panamericantool.com/nova...tion-tool.html

Best $72 luxury you can get in this project. I love mine!

[Auburntsts]

Originally Posted by RNB

More than the 40 hours someone specified?

IMO you can’t quantify how time will be saved for you based upon someone else’s experience. You could end up spending an inordinate amount trying to figure out and then implementing a solo solution that could very easily been done in a fraction of the time with some help. Look, there are few absolutes out there. I did as much by myself that was practical but I have no idea if I’d have saved 40 hrs, 100hrs, or nothing had I used more help than the bare minimum. What I do know is the 10 is a large plane and there’s a lot of rivets and that’s only part of the work that goes into each hole that’s riveted. Riveting is just one aspect of the construction process, and it’s actually one of the faster aspects when you’re building. It’s getting to the point that a given component is ready for riveting that takes most of the time. How much help you need is ultimately your call, but it’s gonna be years worth of a lot of sweat equity no matter how you slice it.

[RNB]

Originally Posted by Auburntsts

IMO you can’t quantify how time will be saved for you based upon someone else’s experience. You could end up spending an inordinate amount trying to figure out and then implementing a solo solution that could very easily been done in a fraction of the time with some help. Look, there are few absolutes out there. I did as much by myself that was practical but I have no idea if I’d have saved 40 hrs, 100hrs, or nothing had I used more help than the bare minimum. What I do know is the 10 is a large plane and there’s a lot of rivets and that’s only part of the work that goes into each hole that’s riveted. Riveting is just one aspect of the construction process, and it’s actually one of the faster aspects when you’re building. It’s getting to the point that a given component is ready for riveting that takes most of the time. How much help you need is ultimately your call, but it’s gonna be years worth of a lot of sweat equity no matter how you slice it.

OK.

The question I asked though was about how much time for two person riveting. I did not ask about saving time, or prep work.

[Ralph Inkster]

Yes, take the EAA course. That will answer 90% of your sheet metal questions to get you thru the airframe structure part of the build.

Than you will have 60% of the built left & lots more questions.

[Everwild]

Originally Posted by JBarsness

I'm no clecoe plier hero with a firm grip... or tendonitis...

https://www.panamericantool.com/nova...tion-tool.html

Best $72 luxury you can get in this project. I love mine!

I have that gun and love it too. Don't use it for everything but definitely speeds things up when you have to assemble or disassemble something before or after match drilling. The pliers are easier as I move down a row with the drill but the gun is great for bulk jobs.

[wirejock]

Originally Posted by RNB

OK.

The question I asked though was about how much time for two person riveting. I did not ask about saving time, or prep work.

I can't quantify on the 10 but I would estimate 48 man/hours.
Basically any rivet you can't reach with both hands.
Empennage: No problem on the 7, but the 10 has a bigger HS. Maybe one session.
Wings: Skins and maybe leading edge. Figure two sessions maybe three. Top skins then bottom skins then leading edge to spar.
Fuselage: I managed to rivet the bottom skin solo using a jig. Side skins no problem. Once it's closed, there's no way to reach the top skin rivets.
Fuselage crew area ribs and floor. Might need help. One session
Fuslage forward skin: No way to reach.
Probably a bunch more on the 10.
It's easy to find helpers. Make builder friends. Help them and they will help you.

[rdamazio]

Riveting (like anything) of course gets much faster and easier as you get more experienced doing it, so it's hard to estimate and varies by person.

I keep a somewhat detailed build log tracking times and rivets, and I started with zero experience, see if that helps you get an idea of time:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...YyNEHU/preview

(notice there's many tabs at the bottom with the details of each section)
Maybe half or so of my rivets were done together with my wife (certainly all the tough ones ).