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  #11  
Old 01-21-2022, 05:31 AM
RNB RNB is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Bethel NC (PGV)
Posts: 22
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I was initially surprised to read the first couple responses, appreciate the precision of saying: only 5% pulled, minimal rivets requiring a second person.

On mentorship, I agree. But I can't just sit back and wait for it to happen or else I will be on their schedule. If I happen to pick one up, great. In the meantime, I will continue reading, have an EAA metalwork class scheduled, plan to meet with Zach in March, and will watch more youtube as I dream.
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2022, 06:02 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Location: Tampa, FL
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Just to be clear, I wouldn’t characterize the number of rivets that need a 2nd person to help riveting as minimal. With some ingenuity it can be, I suppose, but that’s the exception not the rule. For example, I know of a builder who backriveted the tailcone without the need for a 2nd person so this is an example of it can be done. However, most builders, myself included, approach major component riveting (tailcone, fuse, etc) as a 2-person job. Generally having help will make the construction go faster. This will become obvious once you start building. You’ll see what’s required and figure out a method that works best for your situation. There’s usually more than one way to skin the cat.
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RV-10 N728TT - Flying!
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Last edited by Auburntsts : 01-21-2022 at 06:10 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2022, 07:49 AM
RNB RNB is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Bethel NC (PGV)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburntsts View Post
Just to be clear, I wouldnít characterize the number of rivets that need a 2nd person to help riveting as minimal. With some ingenuity it can be, I suppose, but thatís the exception not the rule. For example, I know of a builder who backriveted the tailcone without the need for a 2nd person so this is an example of it can be done. However, most builders, myself included, approach major component riveting (tailcone, fuse, etc) as a 2-person job. Generally having help will make the construction go faster. This will become obvious once you start building. Youíll see whatís required and figure out a method that works best for your situation. Thereís usually more than one way to skin the cat.
More than the 40 hours someone specified?
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2022, 08:00 AM
JBarsness JBarsness is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Suburban Minneapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
A word to the wise: Switch hands for the cleco pliers often or you may find yourself with a case of tendonitis. It is not pleasant.
I'm no clecoe plier hero with a firm grip... or tendonitis...

https://www.panamericantool.com/nova...tion-tool.html

Best $72 luxury you can get in this project. I love mine!
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2022, 08:11 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNB View Post
More than the 40 hours someone specified?
IMO you can’t quantify how time will be saved for you based upon someone else’s experience. You could end up spending an inordinate amount trying to figure out and then implementing a solo solution that could very easily been done in a fraction of the time with some help. Look, there are few absolutes out there. I did as much by myself that was practical but I have no idea if I’d have saved 40 hrs, 100hrs, or nothing had I used more help than the bare minimum. What I do know is the 10 is a large plane and there’s a lot of rivets and that’s only part of the work that goes into each hole that’s riveted. Riveting is just one aspect of the construction process, and it’s actually one of the faster aspects when you’re building. It’s getting to the point that a given component is ready for riveting that takes most of the time. How much help you need is ultimately your call, but it’s gonna be years worth of a lot of sweat equity no matter how you slice it.
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  #16  
Old 01-21-2022, 08:54 AM
RNB RNB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburntsts View Post
IMO you canít quantify how time will be saved for you based upon someone elseís experience. You could end up spending an inordinate amount trying to figure out and then implementing a solo solution that could very easily been done in a fraction of the time with some help. Look, there are few absolutes out there. I did as much by myself that was practical but I have no idea if Iíd have saved 40 hrs, 100hrs, or nothing had I used more help than the bare minimum. What I do know is the 10 is a large plane and thereís a lot of rivets and thatís only part of the work that goes into each hole thatís riveted. Riveting is just one aspect of the construction process, and itís actually one of the faster aspects when youíre building. Itís getting to the point that a given component is ready for riveting that takes most of the time. How much help you need is ultimately your call, but itís gonna be years worth of a lot of sweat equity no matter how you slice it.


OK.

The question I asked though was about how much time for two person riveting. I did not ask about saving time, or prep work.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2022, 09:20 AM
Ralph Inkster Ralph Inkster is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Yes, take the EAA course. That will answer 90% of your sheet metal questions to get you thru the airframe structure part of the build.

Than you will have 60% of the built left & lots more questions.
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built a few RVs, rebuilt a few more, hot rodded more, & maintained/updated a big bunch more
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:09 AM
Everwild Everwild is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Maumee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBarsness View Post
I'm no clecoe plier hero with a firm grip... or tendonitis...

https://www.panamericantool.com/nova...tion-tool.html

Best $72 luxury you can get in this project. I love mine!
I have that gun and love it too. Don't use it for everything but definitely speeds things up when you have to assemble or disassemble something before or after match drilling. The pliers are easier as I move down a row with the drill but the gun is great for bulk jobs.
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RV10
Currently working on the elevator
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:19 AM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Two person riveting

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNB View Post
OK.

The question I asked though was about how much time for two person riveting. I did not ask about saving time, or prep work.
I can't quantify on the 10 but I would estimate 48 man/hours.
Basically any rivet you can't reach with both hands.
Empennage: No problem on the 7, but the 10 has a bigger HS. Maybe one session.
Wings: Skins and maybe leading edge. Figure two sessions maybe three. Top skins then bottom skins then leading edge to spar.
Fuselage: I managed to rivet the bottom skin solo using a jig. Side skins no problem. Once it's closed, there's no way to reach the top skin rivets.
Fuselage crew area ribs and floor. Might need help. One session
Fuslage forward skin: No way to reach.
Probably a bunch more on the 10.
It's easy to find helpers. Make builder friends. Help them and they will help you.
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Estes Park, CO
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/01/2021, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (3,000+ hours)
Empennage, wings, fuse, finishing kit done. Working FWF
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #20  
Old 01-21-2022, 03:42 PM
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rdamazio rdamazio is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 287
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Riveting (like anything) of course gets much faster and easier as you get more experienced doing it, so it's hard to estimate and varies by person.

I keep a somewhat detailed build log tracking times and rivets, and I started with zero experience, see if that helps you get an idea of time:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...YyNEHU/preview

(notice there's many tabs at the bottom with the details of each section)
Maybe half or so of my rivets were done together with my wife (certainly all the tough ones ).
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Build log at http://www.airplane.build/
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