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How much would you pay for...

RV8Squaz

Well Known Member
Hello all.

I'm working with Airplane Plastics, manufacturer of RV canopies, to produce the wingtip lenses for an older style lens kit that is not longer available. The kit, once very popular, was produced by Airtech and available in older Vans catalogs. The kit is pictured below from a page in the 2013-2014 Vans catalog.

There have been numerous threads (and confusion) regarding these lenses. Here is one of the more recent threads:

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=156701

NOTE: These are for the older style W-415 Hoerner wingtips.

Flyboys made some lenses but they are not for this wingtip or lens kit. Please reference their page below. Mine are like the one pictured on the bottom right.

https://www.flyboyaccessories.com/product-p/7221.htm


So how much would you be willing the pay? I know I don't want to have to address this issue with a wingtip makeover. I know that hazy and clouded lenses can be restored. But what do you do if an old incandescent nav light melted the lens or a vehicle has bumped into to your airplane and shattered the lens? Fortunately, I had spares, but I am now out of spares. I just installed new LED nav/strobe lights and I would love to install shiny new lenses.

I'm trying to help Airplane Plastics assess the need, how many to produce, and the cost. I should add that... How much would you be willing to pay for the PAIR? They used to be available in the Vans catalog for $45 each. Flyboys had a pair of lenses available for a different wingtip for $249.

PLEASE let me know if you have any information concerning the Airtech Lens kit and the whereabouts of the builder and the tooling used to produce these kits!

Thank you!

Jerry
 

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OK Scott. Thanks. Since I got you on the line.... Do you know what happened to these lens kits?
 
I should add that... How much would you be willing to pay for the PAIR? They used to be available in the Vans catalog for $45 each. Flyboys had a pair of lenses available for a different wingtip for $249.
 
OK Scott. Thanks. Since I got you on the line.... Do you know what happened to these lens kits?

I don't know much about them but I believe they were developed & produced by a third party which at some point stopped producing them.
That is why Vans has had no way to support them with replacement lenses, etc.
 
I have a need for a pair of lenses, if only to put them on the shelf for when they are *really* needed. The cost matters, but unless the price is ridiculous, I’m in.
 
bought one of those kits, long time gone, for the -4. All included, with wiring & connectors, remember shelling out $900 for those...
Sold the -4, including the lenses ;)
 
bought one of those kits, long time gone, for the -4. All included, with wiring & connectors, remember shelling out $900 for those...
Sold the -4, including the lenses ;)

Hello Dan,

Maybe that was some other kit. This particular Airtech kit included the fiberglass insert and lens only for each wing as pictured above.
 
I have those older wing tips and my lens aren't in the best shape, so I would be interested if the price reasonable.
 
I will need a pair for my 6A that is still under construction. The flyboys price of $45 for two is fair. I would not pay $249 for just the lenses.
If nothing is available I was thinking of making a test pair by heating up some perspex over a wooden plug in my wife's oven (when she is out).
 
I will need a pair for my 6A that is still under construction. The flyboys price of $45 for two is fair. I would not pay $249 for just the lenses.
If nothing is available I was thinking of making a test pair by heating up some perspex over a wooden plug in my wife's oven (when she is out).

Paul,

The $45 price was for EACH as listed in the 2013-2014 Vans catalog which are no longer available.

The Flyboys $249 price was for a PAIR of lenses that DO NOT fit the Airtech fiberglass insert in the W-415 wingtips.

I started making a mold out of plaster sometime ago. I suppose I could still give it a try. But after speaking with the Airplane Plastics people I realize there's a lot more to it to achieve a nice looking lens. I imagine it would be fairly costly for a short production run. I'm willing to pay $249, maybe more, for a PAIR. Since I plan to hold onto my airplane forever, I'm looking at buying 2 pairs minimum.
 
I could use a pair. $150 for the pair would be palatable, but I realize the mold cost etc. might drive higher costs. Perhaps, you could get Vans to sign up for a qty buy so they can support their product.
 
Flyboys?

This is a bit confusing; the flyboys website currently has a lens for $45, it says to cut in half to do both the left and right W-415 style wingtips. I think this is the type of wing tip on my 6A that is from mid-90s.
(The internal bracket to mount the lights would still need to be fabricated by me because they are no longer available from Vans.)
 

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Paul,

I understand. It is confusing. Lot's of different wingtips and lots of different lighting kits over the years. The lenses you are referring to also fit the old style W-415 wingtips, but are made for a different purpose or application. See attached picture from the 2013-2014 Vans catalog.

If I remember correctly, they are quite small and made to cover just a single nav light. You would have to roll your own mounting fixture. If that's what you want, purchase those from Flyboys which are currently available.

This thread is about the lenses that fit the Airtech fixture for the same W-415 wingtip. See my original post. The RV community has lost track of the third party vendor and the tooling. These lenses are no longer available anywhere. Thus, the problem and potential cost.

I hope this clears it up.
 

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Landing lights and strobes needed

Thanks Jerry that helps, I did not realise those original light covers are so small. I'll need, ideally, some sort of mount that will fit into the wingtip to carry the Flyleds "works" plus lens. That might not be feasible with these old tips and may therefore require a custom solution.
Paul.
 
Jerry, I don't need those lenses as I have a 7, but the double lens for 7-8 and the 10's are around $60 from Vans.

It would seem that a mold for making vinyl lens would take about $200 on materials and 20 hrs of labor to make. Lots of hand polishing to ensure a nice surface finish. About $1200-1500 for tooling assuming a heating fixture and vacuum source is fractionally available, + 20 min labor per part, with 100 parts at 100% gross margin. That would estimate (SWAG) a retail price around $75.

Stuff really adds up fast at $50-80/shop hour, but people have to live . . . and build.:D

The company can do all the real numbers but our contribution is not how much to pay, but how many will be purchased. A group buy for 100 pieces would seem a good start for the company to evaluate economic viability.
 
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I have the Flyboys lenses and an RV-6, I'm half way through fitting the lenses to a wing tip that did not previously have them - lights on pads on the end. It is not straight forward. The lenses do not fit that well and have variable steps of up to 1/16" on my tips. It is not that easy to guess first time where to cut the tip. It is all possible, and the first tip is on the way, it will look OK with a little filler. The lens is quite small, I am inserting a Whelen Microburst which does fit, but there isn't much to spare. I have several hours invested so far, haven't counted but could easily be 10 hours (+) per tip.

If there was a lens available that came with a part that glassed into the tip as a one step process that would be attractive for me. At present each tip is probably 5 resin processes, so at least 5 days. If that was one resin process plus some filling, and the kit cost around $250 then I probably would have been interested. The time saving over what I have spent so far would be significant, perhaps the equivalent of paying $12.50 per hour. That gets my attention.
 
I wouldn't mind having a set of spares around, if I even knew what *size* or part number or style or whatever to get. There seem to be so many different shapes of tip that I don't have any idea what I'd need. All I know is I swapped my W-715-1 (squared-off trailing edge) tips for the older "batwing" style tips with someone here.

Be nice to have a chart that shows which tip goes with which lens...
 
There is only two wing tip overall shapes that have been shipped in kits from Van's.
The Horner style (flat top supplied in all of the earlier kits)

and

Compound shaped tip that has often been referred to as the bat wing tip.
This tip shape was modified at some point to remove the bat wing / swept training edge, but all of the rest of the tip shape is exactly the same so any light housing or lens designed for the original one, would fit the other.
 
...
Compound shaped tip that has often been referred to as the bat wing tip.
This tip shape was modified at some point to remove the bat wing / swept training edge, but all of the rest of the tip shape is exactly the same so any light housing or lens designed for the original one, would fit the other.

Unless I'm wrong, the *cut-out* for the lights changed shape at some point, as well. At least, that's how I remember it...that the lens from the bat-wing wouldn't fit the straight TE version, or vice-versa, or both.

Or that's completely wrong, and they are interchangeable, but I recall there was a difference between the two, as when I swapped mine with someone else, it was important that the lens came with the tip.

ETA: Ah, yes...here is the diagram. Forget about the lights themselves, we're only talking about the lens. I don't know if the currently available lens will fit the older style opening, I suppose it would (same shape and you'd just have to trim it down to fit), but I haven't tried that.

cat-med_ll_7-8.jpg
 
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Unless I'm wrong, the *cut-out* for the lights changed shape at some point, as well. At least, that's how I remember it...that the lens from the bat-wing wouldn't fit the straight TE version, or vice-versa, or both.

Or that's completely wrong, and they are interchangeable, but I recall there was a difference between the two, as when I swapped mine with someone else, it was important that the lens came with the tip.

ETA: Ah, yes...here is the diagram. Forget about the lights themselves, we're only talking about the lens. I don't know if the currently available lens will fit the older style opening, I suppose it would (same shape and you'd just have to trim it down to fit), but I haven't tried that.

cat-med_ll_7-8.jpg

The lens provided is the same shape and adequate size for either. I had the old lens and enlarged my notch, no problem with fitting. You would just have more material left if applying to the small notch.
 
Jerry, I don't need those lenses as I have a 7, but the double lens for 7-8 and the 10's are around $60 from Vans.

It would seem that a mold for making vinyl lens would take about $200 on materials and 20 hrs of labor to make. Lots of hand polishing to ensure a nice surface finish. About $1200-1500 for tooling assuming a heating fixture and vacuum source is fractionally available, + 20 min labor per part, with 100 parts at 100% gross margin. That would estimate (SWAG) a retail price around $75.

Stuff really adds up fast at $50-80/shop hour, but people have to live . . . and build.:D

The company can do all the real numbers but our contribution is not how much to pay, but how many will be purchased. A group buy for 100 pieces would seem a good start for the company to evaluate economic viability.

Hello Bill,

Thanks for the number crunching. I agree that the key number is how many would be purchased. But that number would change dramatically depending on the cost of the lenses. I feel that 20 would get purchased immediately. I'm guessing that 50 could be purchased in short order. I'm not sure if 100 units would ever be purchased.

There is no way to predict the need. How many of the Airtech kits were purchased? How many installed and flying? Of those how many feel that they need replacement lenses. Would people that need them or just want a spare set, buy them for $100, $200, or more? I don't know.
 
I wouldn't mind having a set of spares around, if I even knew what *size* or part number or style or whatever to get. There seem to be so many different shapes of tip that I don't have any idea what I'd need. All I know is I swapped my W-715-1 (squared-off trailing edge) tips for the older "batwing" style tips with someone here.

Be nice to have a chart that shows which tip goes with which lens...

This thread is in reference to the lenses provided with the Airtech kits for the older Hoerner style W-415 wingtips. The Airtech kits ONLY fit the Hoerner style wingtips, not the wingtips with the rounded ends. See attached picture for example of a Hoerner wingtip. The Airtech kits had a very nice molded and gel-coated fixture that was glassed into the wingtip. See post #1. You should be able to identify whether you have the Airtech kit by removing the wingtip and inspecting it from the interior. Click on the link to the older thread in post #1 and look for my post, #17, on page 2.
 

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The lenses I'm referring to in this thread will NOT fit either of those wingtips.

Unless I'm wrong, the *cut-out* for the lights changed shape at some point, as well. At least, that's how I remember it...that the lens from the bat-wing wouldn't fit the straight TE version, or vice-versa, or both.

Or that's completely wrong, and they are interchangeable, but I recall there was a difference between the two, as when I swapped mine with someone else, it was important that the lens came with the tip.

ETA: Ah, yes...here is the diagram. Forget about the lights themselves, we're only talking about the lens. I don't know if the currently available lens will fit the older style opening, I suppose it would (same shape and you'd just have to trim it down to fit), but I haven't tried that.

cat-med_ll_7-8.jpg
 
Lenses!

Hello all,

Airplane Plastics came through back in August and produced a couple of different versions which look great. I finally got them installed last month. The fit and finish is fantastic. If you would like a pair of these lenses, please send me a PM for more information. Remember, these lenses are only for those described in my post, post #1. They will only fit older style flat topped Hoerner wingtip with the installed Airtech kit.

Jerry
 
Lenses

I would be very interested my lenses are in really rough shape. I believe I have the flat top horner lens style.

Very difficult to come by.

Curt
 

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If my memory is correct, there were about three or four different setups sold over the years. I think the best idea would be to make the plug over size to accomidat the biggest of them and allow for trimming to fit the smaller ones. Some had the angled back style for the nave strobe como. And there was the 90 ones van sold. A bigger lens should be able to be trimmed for any of them.
 
Hello all. I'm working with Airplane Plastics, manufacturer of RV canopies, to produce the wingtip lenses for an older style lens kit that is not longer available.

I'm trying to help Airplane Plastics assess the need, how many to produce, and the cost. I should add that... How much would you be willing to pay for the PAIR? They used to be available in the Vans catalog for $45 each. Flyboys had a pair of lenses available for a different wingtip for $249.

PLEASE let me know if you have any information concerning the Airtech Lens kit and the whereabouts of the builder and the tooling used to produce these kits! Thank you! Jerry
I hope you find the tooling. They are really nice. I had the kit on my RV-4 I built and sold. Keep in mind you make both at the same time. It looks like a simple mold will work. From the image you cut in half to make two. It looks like the may have pressed or used vacuum to pull or pressure to push into the mold.
https://store.vansaircraft.com/rv-7-7a-8-8a-wingtip-lens-makes-2-va-172-1.html

va-172-1.jpg


I know the OP said he didn't want to change wingtips, but one solution for this lens issue is to switch to the new short wingtips from HP Aircraft LLC. Non-lighted tips are shipping now, and tips with lens and pocket for lights will be shipping very soon. The first set is going onto my RV-8 this weekend.

https://hpaircraftblog.wordpress.com/short-wingtips-for-rv-4-through-rv-8/
If the price is right for the short wingtips, it may be a way to go, but stall speed I expect to be a tad higher (less wing area) and top speed MPH or two more? Look forward to some flight reports. I hope they take some flight data before and after. Wingtips already fitted and painted are not as desirable to change just because of plexi cover for light. The old W-415 is a good wing tip aerodynamically. Also if they have the large recess for lights with landing lights it will make the switch even less convenient
 
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The lenses for the Airtech kit as installed on the older W-415 Hoerner wingtips are now available from Jeff at https://www.airplaneplastics.com.. If you're interested in these lenses, call him ASAP as he is getting ready to produce a batch.
 
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The lenses for the Airtech kit as installed on the older W-415 Hoerner wingtips are now available from Jeff at https://www.airplaneplastics.com.. If you're interested in these lenses, call him ASAP as he is getting ready to produce a batch.

Hello All,

Airplane Plastics has a couple of pairs of lenses that went unclaimed. They are available for sale at $225 per pair. The lenses are beautiful and optically perfect!

Again, these lenses will only fit the old style, W-415 Hoerner, flat-topped wing tips. The lenses were sized to fit the Airtech fixture as described in my post, Msg #1 in this thread. They are supplied slightly over-size and will require some trimming. The are marked with rough cut Sharpie marks, but be sure to trim to fit. They may trimmed to fit a smaller opening. Please ensure the lenses fit your application before ordering.

Here are a some shots after trimming, before drilling for the screws.
 

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