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Flying to AirVenture 2022 Oshkosh 50th anniversary of Van’s Aircraft

RV6_flyer

Well Known Member
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How many times have you flown an RV to AirVenture Oshkosh? The only way I can remember is by counting the number of stickers I have on my baggage wall.
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Counting the stickers, I see 20. I am sure that there are others that have more RV flights to AirVenture and RV pilots with more RV flight hours. (over 3,500 RV hours)

We, as pilots, flying our RV aircraft to AirVenture Oshkosh need to follow the arrival Notice procedures.
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The Notice (I want to type NOTAM as that is what it was called in the past) wants aircraft flying 90 knots and 1,800’ for aircraft that can “operate comfortably at 90 knots.” All RV aircraft can operate comfortably at 90 knots. There are other threads in the forum about this. IF you cannot operate your RV comfortably at 90 knots, you should not fly it to AirVenture Oshkosh. 90 knots is within the normal operating speed of all RV aircraft but most of us (myself included) do not spend a lot of time operating at this speed.
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Having been to AirVenture Oshkosh numerous times in the same RV, I still like to go out and practice 90 knot flight as I typically do not fly my RV less than 122 KIAS in cruise flight. I have no issue flying a traffic pattern at 65 KIAS in my RV and am comfortable doing that but want to get familiar with flying 90 knots, holding altitude, navigating by reference looking outside, watching for other aircraft, and making radio adjustments inside will doing all of this. I also want to be able to make precision spot landings.

Almost all of my fights into AirVenture Oshkosh have started at RIPON 1,800’ and 90 KIAS. The last two NOTICE or NOTAM have added additional Transition points before RIPON (VPRIP). During our arrival flight planning, we do not know what point ATC will have us use before reaching RIPON.

Using ForeFlight to determine distance between these Transition Points, I came up with this table and calculations. Feel free to check my math.
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It appears that I may need to fly my RV at 90 KIAS for 30 minutes before landing.

In the worst arrival mess that has ever happened, I orbited for one hour waiting to get in the arrival mess before diverting to Dodge County (KUNU). I refueled, tied the aircraft down for the night, and had round trip ground transportation arranged for me and my baggage to OSH. The next day, I retrieved the aircraft and flew the final leg to OSH.

The following year was not much better. After seeing the traffic mess on my ADS-B in, I added power, climbed to a higher cruising altitude, and flew north to Appleton (KATW) where a pretty much standard Delta airspace arrival was made. There are procedures in the NOTICE for the arrival so study that before hand. Other than the reporting point published in the NOTICE, it felt like a standard arrival at a towered airport.

Today’s flight was not perfect. I wrote down 2,100 RPM and 16.4” MAP. MAP was as high as 17 and as low as 15. I may end up with a slight adjustment on manifold pressure after repeating this exercise a few more times. I also try to bracket a lower and upper setting to use when speed or altitude deviations occur. A higher RPM would allow faster speed changes but that can be a bad thing with factory aircraft in front or behind me that cannot accelerate or slow down as fast as the 160 HP RV with constant speed prop.
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Less than two months till the largest gathering of aircraft on earth. I am starting to get ready and am looking forward to seeing old friends and making new ones.

Once you are safely on the ground at OSH, you will be directed to parking. Most of us RV pilots, taxi with our flaps down. Please put your flaps up before you taxi on grass. Once in your parking spot, it is ok to put your flaps down.
Once shut down in your parking space, TIE your aircraft to the ground before doing anything else.

This will be Van's Aircraft 50th year.
 
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Excellent reminder. Having flown in many times over my 32years of attendance, but only once in the RV, I, too will be practicing flying at reduced speeds. Most important - READ and FOLLOW THE NOTICE (formerly NOTAM). :)
 
Most of us RV pilots, taxi with our flaps down. Please put your flaps up before you taxi on grass. Once in your parking spot, it is ok to put your flaps down.

Gary,
Having flown in to OSH 20+ times my self, this is the first time I have ever heard this.
Please share the reason.
 
Jeff Point recommended that. He is or was the "chairman" of the RV and homebuilt camping parking area. Kitplanes called Jeff the Homebuilt Parking jefe.

I know Jeff from dealing with the parking of our demonstrator aircraft over the years, but that didn't answer my question....
Do you know why he recommends that (or maybe he will see this thread and provide an explanation)?
 
I'm not an RV flyer (yet), but in all my time in small planes I've always raised the flaps as soon as I departed the active. Why do RV flyers normally leave them down? Is it a high wing vs low wing thing?
 
I'm not an RV flyer (yet), but in all my time in small planes I've always raised the flaps as soon as I departed the active. Why do RV flyers normally leave them down? Is it a high wing vs low wing thing?

It’s easier to get out of the plane/off the wing with the flaps down.
 
It’s easier to get out of the plane/off the wing with the flaps down.

Agree with this. Regarding taxiing with flaps Down, not so much. My concern is blasting debris that might be on the taxiway or grass into the skins of my flaps. I always retract prior to startup as well.
 
Agree with this. Regarding taxiing with flaps Down, not so much. My concern is blasting debris that might be on the taxiway or grass into the skins of my flaps. I always retract prior to startup as well.

I agree. "Flaps Up" is part of my "Before Engine Start" checklist item, as well as Taxi After Landing. They go down each time as the last item before Master Off.
 
Flaps down when parked is so people won't think the flaps can be stepped on while getting in or out, like you can on a Cherokee or similar airplane where they are "steppable." Many a time damage to people and/or RV flaps (and other similar models of aircraft) has occurred because someone assumed they could step there (even with a "no step" placard - apparently people who can read sometimes don't :)). Damage happens quickly.

There are probably other reasons, too. Like, it hard to tell how well aligned the flaps are with everything else when they're extended. ;)
 
I know Jeff from dealing with the parking of our demonstrator aircraft over the years, but that didn't answer my question....
Do you know why he recommends that (or maybe he will see this thread and provide an explanation)?

I should have added that is "flaps up" when you turn into parking in the grass in the RV parking / tie down area. We were told to put our flaps up as part of one of the large RV Formations when we taxi into and out of the RV tie down parking area. Maybe it was ment just for the RV Formation group but I have been practicing that when I taxi in and out of the RV parking area by myself. I remember someone saying that having the flaps down cause more grass clipping to fly around making it hard for the ground handlers to see what was going on. I am sure that is true when 35 plus RVs taxi in and out for a formation flight at the same time but maybe one aircraft would not be a big deal. I just like to be nice to the guys that volunteer their time to help out at AirVenture and try to be nice to them.

Thanks for asking where the info came from.
 
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Good morning Gary,

Your post about flying in to Oshkosh is spot on. This topic comes up every year and this is as good a time as any to get the discussion going. Folks, Gary is a veteran of flying in to Oshkosh and he speaks the truth here.

As for raising your flaps to taxi on grass- I'm at a loss on that one. That didn't come from me, and frankly I'm not sure where it came from. As far back as I can remember we've never asked folks to raise their flaps, even for the formation groups. I don't raise my flaps when taxiing my 6 on grass, at Oshkosh or elsewhere. The closest thing I can think of is that we recommend (for the formation groups) pulling your tail tie-downs out so as not to run them over when taxiing back in, but that has nothing to do with flaps.

Are you sure this came from me? Perhaps the Beer Fairy remembers, as I suspect she was present for the conversation...
 
Good morning Gary,

Your post about flying in to Oshkosh is spot on. This topic comes up every year and this is as good a time as any to get the discussion going. Folks, Gary is a veteran of flying in to Oshkosh and he speaks the truth here.

As for raising your flaps to taxi on grass- I'm at a loss on that one. That didn't come from me, and frankly I'm not sure where it came from. As far back as I can remember we've never asked folks to raise their flaps, even for the formation groups. I don't raise my flaps when taxiing my 6 on grass, at Oshkosh or elsewhere. The closest thing I can think of is that we recommend (for the formation groups) pulling your tail tie-downs out so as not to run them over when taxiing back in, but that has nothing to do with flaps.

Are you sure this came from me? Perhaps the Beer Fairy remembers, as I suspect she was present for the conversation...

The flaps was briefed in several of the RV Formation Group flights that I took part in. I think first time may have been 2007 when I took part in the 35-ship RV formation. I remember being told that you were the on the ground OSH point of contact and had spaces reserved. I assume (I know what happens when you assume) that it came from you and was 'briefed' that way for the flight(s).

This photo was taken by our own Doug Reeves. I am the guy with smoke on the far right of the photo (left side of the formation fight).
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Flaps down when parked is so people won't think the flaps can be stepped on while getting in or out,....

Except, not ALL the way down. To prevent someone leaning on them from popping the flap LE up over the wing skin. Had that happen once, and luckily caught it before raising the flaps. (which bends the wing TE and is a nightmare) After that, I stopped short of full extension, or raised them up slightly before shutdown.
 
Gary's right!!

Gary's wisdom here should be followed. Last year the first point was nearly 50 miles away. Watching FlightRadar24 we noticed planes backed up from the first point and south to Madison. It was crazy.

ATC last year was aggressive on turning around people who cut into line and with those doing the high altitude route when they should have been lower. ADS-B is very helpful to them in this regard:D Flying the tour helicopters there we hear and see some amazing schtuff!!!! Don't be one that gets talked about.

I think this year has potential for some really screwed up activity. I've often held that many if not most people who fly into Oshkosh are people who only fly 3-4 times a year and one of the is Oshkosh. Now with the gas prices the proficiency level may be further reduced!! Hope not. Get out an practice.

Flaps up to taxi is something I try to do just to keep the flaps from any FOD
damage and getting really dirty. For me, I raise the flaps after parking and tying down. If they are down, I've notice people looking inside can lean against the flap potential stressing the linkage and hinge. If it is up, not much chance of that. Over the last couple of years of showing my plane, I've gotten very observant of "lookers" habits and patterns!!!

Can't wait to see everyone!!
 
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The flaps was briefed in several of the RV Formation Group flights that I took part in. I think first time may have been 2007 when I took part in the 35-ship RV formation. I remember being told that you were the on the ground OSH point of contact and had spaces reserved. I assume (I know what happens when you assume) that it came from you and was 'briefed' that way for the flight(s).

I remember that one. Yes I was the ground guy but no the flaps thing didn't come from me. So let's put this one to bed for good- there is no official recommendation one way or the other w/r/t flaps during taxi. Everyone is free to do it whichever way makes them comfortable. On the other hand, TIE YOUR AIRPLANE DOWN! That part is not negotiable.

Look forward to seeing everyone in a a few short weeks.
 
Newbie question

How are fuel prices at Oshkosh and is it a huge pain? Curious if I should plan a fuel stop before arrival.
 
Fuel prices have usually been typical for the area - they don’t try to gouge, thankfully. Pretty easy to get it and pay, too. :)
 
How are fuel prices at Oshkosh and is it a huge pain? Curious if I should plan a fuel stop before arrival.

Yes, make a stop and tank up prior to the arrival procedure. You don't need low fuel mental pressure if stuck in a hold, and on the ground you'll have better things to do.

Reminder to all...Rwy 27 requires a tight, close in, right hand pattern to a spot landing. Most folks don't fly many right patterns, much less short and tight. I promise there will be lots of folks with cameras on the south side of 27, waiting to immortalize the unskilled. The week before, please go fly a half dozen to various spots on your local runway, including clearing to the left or right on rollout. Don't need to leave your runway. Just give yourself the habit of clearing the centerline as you slow, which can be real important at OSH.

Here's a Cirrus driver doing it all wrong. That's our own Roy and Sandy (Capt Sandy) Thoma in the RV-7. Roy cleared to the left as prescribed, and it was a **** good thing.

Note the reconfigured nose strut on the Cirrus in the very first photo. His idea of a spot landing was to drive the nose into a dot...twice. The initial impact was somewhere near the orange dot, followed by a huge bounce. The photos pick up just before the second impact, where he managed to hit the green dot, again like a lawn dart. Don't be this guy.

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Yes, make a stop and tank up prior to the arrival procedure. You don't need low fuel mental pressure if stuck in a hold, and on the ground you'll have better things to do.

Reminder to all...Rwy 27 requires a tight, close in, right hand pattern to a spot landing. Most folks don't fly many right patterns, much less short and tight. I promise there will be lots of folks with cameras on the south side of 27, waiting to immortalize the unskilled. The week before, please go fly a half dozen to various spots on your local runway, including clearing to the left or right on rollout. Don't need to leave your runway. Just give yourself the habit of clearing the centerline as you slow, which can be real important at OSH.

Here's a Cirrus driver doing it all wrong. That's our own Roy and Sandy (Capt Sandy) Thoma in the RV-7. Roy cleared to the left as prescribed, and it was a **** good thing.

Note the reconfigured nose strut on the Cirrus in the very first photo. His idea of a spot landing was to drive the nose into a dot...twice. The initial impact was somewhere near the orange dot, followed by a huge bounce. The photos pick up just before the second impact, where he managed to hit the green dot, again like a lawn dart. Don't be this guy.

Holy heck that looks like quite the almost incident.

You are spot on about practicing for this approach. I got it both times I flew in last year, luckily I had practiced before arriving, very unusual/uncomfortable approach/pattern if not practiced.
 
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